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Aileron rolls in a Firestar - It cannot be done?

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possums(at)bellsouth.net
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Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 2:51 pm Post subject: Aileron rolls in a Firestar - It cannot be done?

 	  Quote: 	
		  



I don't know about a Kolb, what's the roll rate like?  (I haven't 

flown mine yet.)



                                 -Dana


	


I don't know exactly, but I think you would fall out of the top of 

the roll and be

looking straight down at the ground - watching the little airspeed needle bury

itself. I vote that the roll rate is too slow to get all the way around without

way exceeding the limits of a Firestar - I don't know about the other planes.

Wiggle your wings from 45 right to 45 left and calculate a 360. It's 

going to get

slower as you lose speed and come all the way around. Do a loop if you want to

try something that can be done.

Right John H?

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possums(at)bellsouth.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 5:10 pm Post subject: Aileron rolls in a Firestar - It cannot be done?

At 07:28 PM 3/12/2007, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

d. Can not be done.

>You had better take care of that Mark III.

>Jack D. do not archive

Is this the same "Jack Day" that ran a red light in Breman

Georgia in his ultralight.

Let me tell you guys about Jack a "Possum" from way back.

I watched him land a "Challenger" after his belt broke over

Bremen, Georgia on our way back from (I think) Lakeland

Fla.  He said "I'm puttin it down" and I'm thinking "where are

you putting it down"?? So ....I'm looking for a field or something

(there wasn't any) and watching him go down - of course. Go down into the

main intersection of Bremen Georgia (not a big city). He had the green light.

But ...then I watched the light turn red! I thought "this sucks for Jack"!

Watched him touch down and roll thru the intersection - cars slam on

brakes, Jack turn into the ditch etc. Cool ....but we gotta go.

Long story short, we sent him a ride back from Rome Ga. after hearing

he was OK on the radio. No sense in all of getting on the local news.

Been there, done that.

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jwdfly16(at)bellsouth.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 5:23 pm Post subject: Aileron rolls in a Firestar - It cannot be done?

Stan , the reason I have responded to this list is because I sold my mark 

III back to the gentlemen that built it.

That would be Jim Kmet, great person. Just wanted him to know you can't roll 

a Kolb.

---

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d-m-hague(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 5:44 pm Post subject: Aileron rolls in a Firestar - It cannot be done?

At 04:40 PM 3/13/2007, Ed Chmielewski wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



Don't tell Duane Cole a T-Cart won't roll!  (He did an aerobatic routine 

for decades with a clipped-wing version.)



'Tis a poor workman who blames his tools.'  -  Unk.


	


Yes, but as you point out, Duane's bird had clipped wings (better roll rate 

AND stronger), 180hp, and inverted systems.  I'm sure mine could roll as 

well (I watched another pilot do some nice if slow acro in a new F-21 

T-Craft) but I didn't feel comfortable doing it myself; I was nervous about 

overstressing a 45 year old airframe.  I kinda feel the same way now about 

my Ultrastar.



I had the pleasure of talking for awhile with Duane when I flew my T-Craft 

into an airshow where he did his routine.  Hell of a nice guy and a hell of 

a pilot, too.



                                 -Dana



do not archive

--

--

"You sure it's broken?  Let me make sure..."

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d-m-hague(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 5:49 pm Post subject: Aileron rolls in a Firestar - It cannot be done?

At 08:23 PM 3/13/2007, Beauford T wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

...By the way, those T-craft did not have a flat-bottom ClarkY wing on 

'em...  They were very efficient for their horsepower...


	


Yes, the T-Craft has a semi-symmetrical NACA 23012 airfoil which is why it 

performs so much better than the J-3 Cub with its Clark Y.  I used to fly 

around a lot with several other pilots, one of whom owned a J-3.  We always 

made good natured fun of the Cub driver, everywhere we went, he had to 

leave first and arrived last.



                         -Dana



do not archive



--

--

"You sure it's broken?  Let me make sure..."

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John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 6:02 pm Post subject: Aileron rolls in a Firestar - It cannot be done?

I was nervous about

| overstressing a 45 year old airframe.  I kinda feel the same way now 

about

| my Ultrastar.

 |

|                                 -Dana

Dana:



I don't know if you read my recent email about aerobatics in aircraft 

not certified for aerobatics, especially Kolbs, or not.



The Ultrastar is about as far from an aerobatic aircraft as one could 

get.  I has a 5 rib wing panel made up of .028 wall 6061-T6 aluminum 

tube ribs.  That means that each panel is supporting half the weight 

of the aircraft on 5 of these little rib noses.  That where most of 

the stress is.  That is where the wing will probably fail if you 

decide to become an US aerobatic pilot.



Would like to think that folks have learned something by the mistakes 

I made along the Kolb way, that nearly cut my aviation career very 

short.



john h

mkIII

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_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

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