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Fuel pump complication

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captainron1(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 5:52 pm Post subject: Fuel pump complication

I hope that with the tremendous talent we have here some of you can          help me solve a problem I didn't even know I had till two days ago. As          most of you know I am in the process of installing a 1.3 liter Suzuki          motor in my Kolb M3X. Well I had the fuel tanks fabricated and I have          them installed, however on the other list that I am on dealing just          with this engine, there was just some posting about how the fuel pump          on the Suzuki is inside the fuel tank, and just to increase the          problem it needs to be in there for the fuel to cool it off during its          operation. How much of it is factual I am not sure, but I know for a          fact that the pump in the car is inside the fuel tank. So the question          is what other external pumps can I use on the Suzuki 1.3 16 valves          DOHC. I just beginning to see the end of the project just to have this          come up.              

         Thanks in advance              

         Ron



         http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

            

      [quote][b]

icrashrc

Joined: 16 Mar 2006
Posts: 247
Location: Mishawaka, In

Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 10:24 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel pump complication

Most fuel pumps that are installed inside the tank are designed to use the surrounding liquid as coolant.  You'll have to fing out what fuel pressure the injection system needs to operate correctly if you plan on using a aftermarket external pump.

_________________
Scott

www.ill-EagleAviation.com

do not archive

herbgh

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 145

Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 6:37 am Post subject: Fuel pump complication

Scott

   The ones I have had apart are totally flooded by the fuel.. brushes

and all.. The pump would not be cooled otherwise if the tank was low on

fuel.. '



    Herb 

On Wed, 21 Mar 2007 23:24:31 -0700 "icrashrc" <icrashrc(at)aol.com> writes:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Most fuel pumps that are installed inside the tank are designed to 

 use the surrounding liquid as coolant.  You'll have to fing out what 

 fuel pressure the injection system needs to operate correctly if you 

 plan on using a aftermarket external pump.

 

 --------

 Scott

 

 

 

 do not archive

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=102256#102256

Paul Petty

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 226
Location: Mississippi

Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 6:54 am Post subject: Re: Fuel pump complication

Ron,



I will see if we offer an external pump that puts out 50-60 psi for you once you find out the requirements. Here is something to think about tho. High pressure fuel injection systems in cars/trucks have some sort of inertia switch in the eletrical circut to the pump. This is a saftey item in the event the fuel line is severd in a crash.These pumps move ALOT of fuel when not restricted! Ford has a frame mounted high pressure pump that is pretty light weight.

_________________
Paul Petty
Kolbra #12
Ms Dixie
912 UL 70" warp

captainron1(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 8:22 am Post subject: Fuel pump complication

Yes exactly, I found an after market pump that does about 41 PSI, but          now I need to get the working pressure for the Suzi FI.              

         Ron              

         ======================

---- icrashrc <icrashrc(at)aol.com> wrote:



 =============

--> Kolb-List message posted by: "icrashrc" <icrashrc(at)aol.com>



 Most fuel pumps that are installed inside the tank are designed to use the          surrounding liquid as coolant. You'll have to fing out what fuel          pressure the injection system needs to operate correctly if you plan          on using a aftermarket external pump.



--------

Scott



 do not archive





Read this topic online here:



         http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=102256#102256



         http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

            

      [quote][b]

Michael Sharp

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 118
Location: Oak Grove, MO (Kansas City)

Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 8:24 am Post subject: Re: Fuel pump complication

Ron,



I'm converting a 1.3L Zuki also.  I'm using a Holley Fuel Pump.  P/N 512-105. 

You could also use P/N 12-920 or 12-927 

I think those are the correct part no's.  



If you look at Summit Racing summitracing.com they have other external pumps that meet our requirements.  



Keep in touch, Good Luck

_________________
The air up there in the clouds is very pure and fine...And why shouldn't it be?-
--It is the same the angels breathe.
Mark Twain,
Roughing it' 1886

Mike

captainron1(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 9:42 am Post subject: Fuel pump complication

Hi Paul

A fellow name Jeron from Raven Redrives just answered my question. He essntially said that the engine needs around 30 psi at the FI rail and that the pump in the link provided would work, and so would also an E-2000 fuel pump which is what he is uses on his conversions.



Ron

----------



"Factory pump in tank is 60PSI if I remember correctly. Excess flow just

returns back to tank via pressure regulator over flow port. Fuel rail runs

at about 30PSI. Pump shown in link should work fine- price is OK about the

same as the E2000 we get at Autozone stores which is the one shown in our

manual. Jeron "



=============================

---- Paul Petty <paulpetty(at)myway.com> wrote:



=============




Ron,



I will see if we offer an external pump that puts out 50-60 psi for you once you find out the requirements. Here is something to think about tho. High pressure fuel injection systems in cars/trucks have some sort of inertia switch in the eletrical circut to the pump. This is a saftey item in the event the fuel line is severd in a crash.These pumps move ALOT of fuel when not restricted! Ford has a frame mounted high pressure pump that is pretty light weight.



--------

Paul Petty

Kolbra #12

Ms Dixie

Final assembly!





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=102297#102297

captainron1(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 9:44 am Post subject: Fuel pump complication

See my post to Paul P.              

         Jeron says that the one in the link is good.              

                       

         Ron              

                       

         ======================

---- Michael Sharp <kolbdriver(at)mlsharp.com>          wrote:



=============

--> Kolb-List message posted by:          "Michael Sharp" <kolbdriver(at)mlsharp.com>



Ron,



 I'm converting a 1.3L Zuki also. I'm using a Holley Fuel Pump. P/N 512-105.

         You could also use P/N 12-920 or 12-927

I think those are the          correct part no's.



If you look at Summit Racing          summitracing.com they have other external pumps that meet our          requirements.



Keep in touch, Good Luck



--------

The          air up there in the clouds is very pure and fine...And why shouldn't          it be?-

--It is the same the angels breathe.

Mark Twain,

         Roughing it' 1886



Mike





Read this topic          online here:



         http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=102312#102312



         http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

            

      [quote][b]

d-m-hague(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 1:58 pm Post subject: Fuel pump complication

At 09:50 PM 3/21/2007, Ron wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  ...the fuel pump on the Suzuki is inside the fuel tank, and just to 

increase the problem it needs to be in there for the fuel to cool it off 

during its operation. How much of it is factual I am not sure...


	


It's correct.  Furthermore you have to be careful on cars with in-tank 

pumps to be careful not to run out of gas as that's a good way to fry the 

pump (don't ask me how I know, but the fuel tank on a Fiero is a BITCH to 

R&R).  Another reason for the in-tank pump is that it prevents vapor lock 

problems on the suction side, since the fuel in the lines is always under 

positive pressure.  Something to think about... is it impossible to put the 

pump in the tank?



                                 -Dana



--

--

The citizens of the United States are getting the government they deserve. 

The problem is that I'm also getting the government they deserve.

biglar

Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 457

Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 3:04 pm Post subject: Fuel pump complication

I use a pair of Walbro pumps on Vamoose, in conjunction with a fuel pressure regulator.  These are designed to run outside of the tank, and are much simpler to install.  They'll put out whatever pressure you need, but need to be exercised once in a while.  I've had a couple of them gum up from sitting so long while I fiddled with the reduction drive.                  Lar. 



 On 3/22/07, Paul Petty <paulpetty(at)myway.com (paulpetty(at)myway.com)> wrote: [quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" <paulpetty(at)myway.com  (paulpetty(at)myway.com)>



Ron,



I will see if we offer an external pump that puts out 50-60 psi for you once you find out the requirements. Here is something to think about tho. High pressure fuel injection systems in cars/trucks have some sort of inertia switch in the eletrical circut to the pump. This is a saftey item in the event the fuel line is severd in a  crash.These pumps move ALOT of fuel when not restricted! Ford has a frame mounted high pressure pump that is pretty light weight.



--------

Paul Petty

Kolbra #12

Ms Dixie

Final assembly!





 



[b]

_________________
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk IIIC
"Vamoose"

captainron1(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 4:51 pm Post subject: Fuel pump complication

I suppose if I knew about that little piece of data before I had those tanks built I would have it installed, or designed an access cover and the plumbing for the pump inside. Now I can still do it but truth is its too much trouble and its just as easy to keep the fuel pump outside the tank and at a low point below the tank. There are some advantages for it to be outside the tank one of them is easy access and easy inspection. So after considering all the things that have been said here, I just as well keep the pump outside. 

There are some other things I need to deal with now, as I understand standard fuel lines are 1/8 or so and all my fittings are 5/8 so, now gotta do reductions. If I wasn't really wanting to get this machine up and flying sometime in this life time I guess I'd be screwing around with it to get it perfect, alas life is too short.



Ron (Arizona)

=====================



---- Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net> wrote:



=============




At 09:50 PM 3/21/2007, Ron wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  ...the fuel pump on the Suzuki is inside the fuel tank, and just to

increase the problem it needs to be in there for the fuel to cool it off

during its operation. How much of it is factual I am not sure...


	


It's correct. Furthermore you have to be careful on cars with in-tank

pumps to be careful not to run out of gas as that's a good way to fry the

pump (don't ask me how I know, but the fuel tank on a Fiero is a BITCH to

R&R). Another reason for the in-tank pump is that it prevents vapor lock

problems on the suction side, since the fuel in the lines is always under

positive pressure. Something to think about... is it impossible to put the

pump in the tank?



-Dana



--

--

The citizens of the United States are getting the government they deserve.

The problem is that I'm also getting the government they deserve.

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