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Leading edge deformation

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mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 7:24 pm Post subject: Leading edge deformation

To All,



      About a month ago, someone posted a photo of their leading edge of the 

wing.  It appeared to have a significant amount of depression due to 

on-coming air.   That strikes me as a big no-no!!



    Ok, here's the question.   Since I haven't covered my wings yet, is 

there a way to help overcome this situation?   I have an idea or two, and I 

want to run it past those who know something on the subject.



   Idea #1    Run another line of  3/8" tubing 10" back from and parallel to 

the leading edge  (or whatever distance looks like it would do the most 

good.  (This certainly would keep the fabric from depressing as much)



  Idea #2    Double up the fabric on the front upper 18".   By adding an 

extra layer along the most affected area, I would think this also would do 

quite a bit of good.



    I know neither of these methods would add more than a few ounces to the 

weight of the plane, so I know weight isn't a really big issue.   Is any of 

this worthwhile, or am I just wasting my worries on a non-event??   (In 

other words, was the photo taken of the leading edge deformation doing 110 

mph???

                                                        Mike in SW Utah



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John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 7:33 pm Post subject: Leading edge deformation

|      About a month ago, someone posted a photo of their leading 

edge of the

| wing.  It appeared to have a significant amount of depression due to

| on-coming air.   That strikes me as a big no-no!!



|                                                        Mike in SW 

Utah



Mike:



Where do you guys come up with these questions of procedures we have 

been doing for years with great success.



If you cover and shrink the fabric correctly, you will not have a 

problem with funky leading edge fabric.  Those depressions of the 

fabric serve a purpose.  that is why Homer did not put a metal or wood 

leading edge on the wing.



Mine has depressions and flies pretty good.



john h

mkIII With depressed fabric

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

possums(at)bellsouth.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 7:59 pm Post subject: Leading edge deformation

At 11:33 PM 3/22/2007, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



  |      About a month ago, someone posted a photo of their leading

edge of the

| wing.  It appeared to have a significant amount of depression due to

| on-coming air.   That strikes me as a big no-no!!

Mine has depressions and flies pretty good.



john h

mkIII With depressed fabric


	


no no !! ..we have discussed this several times before. Even if you put

metal on the leading edges back 6 or 7 inches, it doesn't make any difference.

I think Dennis has some info on that in the archives. Kind of like 

the dimples on

a golf ball. Things that are smooth don't always fly better. Kind of like why

shark skin is "rough" like sand paper. Kind of like "Vortex Generators".

jcooley380(at)hughes.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 1:04 am Post subject: Leading edge deformation

To All,



      About a month ago, someone posted a photo of their leading edge of the



wing.  It appeared to have a significant amount of depression due to 

on-coming air.   That strikes me as a big no-no!!



Hi Gang,

Mike: You can minimize the scalloping by using the right ironing technique

and the fabric will be very tight between the nose ribs. It's been a while

for me, but you basically iron between the nose ribs before ironing the rest

of the wing. Give Jim and Dondi Miller a call at Aircraft Tech Support for

detailed info(Polyfiber dealers). They are a great asset when it comes to

covering and painting. 

Good luck.



Later,

John Cooley



-- 

7:44 AM

rowedenny(at)windstream.n
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 2:40 am Post subject: Leading edge deformation

Also  follow Jim and Dondi Millers instructions when shrinking the wing 

fabric to minimize leading edge scalloping between the ribs.

If I recall correctly you iron the leading edge fabric first concentrating 

between the ribs and false ribs.

D Rowe, Mk-3

-----

rowedenny(at)windstream.n
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 2:42 am Post subject: Leading edge deformation

Whoops, I should have learned by now to read all my mail before replying, 

well said John C, you beat me to the punch.

Denny Rowe

---

jindoguy(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 4:42 am Post subject: Leading edge deformation

NACA did wind tunnel tests in the 30's to see if the shrinkage between ribs had any effect on the lift or drag of the wing. They found it was negligible.

Do your best work, per plans, and relax.



Rick



 On 3/23/07, Denny Rowe <rowedenny(at)windstream.net (rowedenny(at)windstream.net)> wrote:[quote] --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Denny Rowe" <rowedenny(at)windstream.net (rowedenny(at)windstream.net)>



Whoops, I should have learned by now to read all my mail before replying,

 well said John C, you beat me to the punch.

Denny Rowe

---

MKIIIX040

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 123
Location: Millinocket, Maine

Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 5:29 am Post subject: Leading edge deformation

Funny you should ask Mike.

 I just read somewhere, sorry don't know for sure  where.

 The depressions between ribs seem to have no effect on  performance but a ridge does. Kolbs don't have that ridge. If you add a lateral  piece of tubing you may do more harm than good.

  

 If I can find the source I will pass it  along.

  

  Vic

 912 UL Extra

 Maine

 do not archive

  



   [quote][b]

_________________
MKIIIX040
912UL

R. Hankins

Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 185
Location: Grants Pass, Oregon

Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 6:58 am Post subject: Re: Leading edge deformation

Mike:



I think where you went astray is the assumption that the depression between ribs is due to "oncoming air".  If this were true, it would be a no-no.  The depressions are a natural result of shrinking the fabric over the Kolb wing.  Take a good look at the on ground and in-flight pictures posted on this site and others and you will see that the depressions do not change from "oncoming-air".  I did a quick search of my pictures and found these two shots that might help prove my point.

On Ground.jpg

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in air.jpg

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_________________
Roger in Oregon
1992 KXP 503 - N1782C

icrashrc

Joined: 16 Mar 2006
Posts: 247
Location: Mishawaka, In

Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 7:20 am Post subject: Re: Leading edge deformation

Idea #1 Run another line of 3/8" tubing 10" back from and parallel to 

the leading edge (or whatever distance looks like it would do the most 

good. (This certainly would keep the fabric from depressing as much) 

Please do not do this. You will drastically change the airfoil characteristics, and almost certainly not for the better.

_________________
Scott

www.ill-EagleAviation.com

do not archive

planecrazzzy
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 1:40 pm Post subject: Re: Leading edge deformation

Was this the picture ???



Gotta Fly...

Mike & "Jaz" in MN

2nd Flight Cambridge Airport 3000AGL.jpg

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mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 3:32 pm Post subject: Leading edge deformation

To Mike and Jaz,

   Wow!!   Yes, that is the picture I was referring to.  Boy, it sure 

doesn't look near as bad as I remember.   Plus, the shadowing excetuates the 

depressions, making them look a little worse than they obviously are. (Which 

aren't that bad after all.)

   Thanks, Mike, for doing the research and helping me see that this 

situation really isn't an issue, at all.          Livin' and learnin' 

...... Thanks for you guy's help!                    Mike in SW Utah



Do not archive.

 	  Quote: 	
		  From: "planecrazzzy" <planecrazzzy(at)yahoo.com>

Reply-To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Leading edge deformation

Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 14:40:20 -0700






Was this the picture ???



Gotta Fly...

Mike & "Jaz" in MN



--------

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Do Not Archive





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_________________________________________________________________

Watch free concerts with Pink, Rod Stewart, Oasis and more. Visit MSN 

Presents today. 

http://music.msn.com/presents?icid=ncmsnpresentstagline&ocid=T002MSN03A07001

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