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jindoguy(at)gmail.com
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 Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 2:56 pm Post subject: HKS oil system clarification |
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John, You were right, the HKS doesn't have two oil pumps.
I got the HKS service manual in the mail today along with an extra set of spark plugs. Once I made sure the spark plugs were the correct ones, I opened the manual and the section detailing the disassambly of the oil pump was the first place I headed with great curiosity.
Looking at the oil system diagram in the installation manual and looking at the engine castings, I could have sworn that it had two pumps. The arrangement of the oil lines just didn't make sense unless there was a second pump. Why would the engineers spend the time and effort to use three castings to make the oil pump if there weren't two pumps?
When you're wrong, well, you're just wrong. There shouldn't be any beating around the bush, or hemming and hawing. Just admit you're wrong and get it over with.
So John, guys, I was wrong. I'm sorry if I led any of you astray. The HKS engine doesn't have two oil pumps.
It has three.
Do I get half credit? 
Rick
--
Rick Girard
"Ya'll drop on in"
takes on a whole new meaning
when you live at the airport. [quote][b]
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herbgh
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 145
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 4:12 pm Post subject: HKS oil system clarification |
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Rick
Sneaky post.. now---why three?? Herb
On Fri, 23 Mar 2007 17:56:02 -0500 "Richard Girard" <jindoguy(at)gmail.com (jindoguy(at)gmail.com)> writes:
[quote] John, You were right, the HKS doesn't have two oil pumps.
I got the HKS service manual in the mail today along with an extra set of spark plugs. Once I made sure the spark plugs were the correct ones, I opened the manual and the section detailing the disassambly of the oil pump was the first place I headed with great curiosity.
Looking at the oil system diagram in the installation manual and looking at the engine castings, I could have sworn that it had two pumps. The arrangement of the oil lines just didn't make sense unless there was a second pump. Why would the engineers spend the time and effort to use three castings to make the oil pump if there weren't two pumps?
When you're wrong, well, you're just wrong. There shouldn't be any beating around the bush, or hemming and hawing. Just admit you're wrong and get it over with.
So John, guys, I was wrong. I'm sorry if I led any of you astray. The HKS engine doesn't have two oil pumps.
It has three.
Do I get half credit?
Rick
--
Rick Girard
"Ya'll drop on in"
takes on a whole new meaning
when you live at the airport.
[b]
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jindoguy(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 5:12 pm Post subject: HKS oil system clarification |
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Herb, I couldn't resist.
One pump, the bottom one in the stack is called the feed pump, the other two are just called inner pumps, so I surmise they are the scavenge pumps. There are two lines going from the pump housings to the oil tank, so my guess is that one of the scavenge pumps picks up the pressure line and sends the oil to the tank through the oil cooler, the other scavenge pump picks up all oil drained into the crankcase and sends it directly to the tank. At least that's how I'd do it. This would account for the low oil temperatures seen by Dave Bigelow and me. The oil temp sensor is at the bottom of the tank next to the line going to the feed pump. The only way to know for sure is to tear it down and physically trace the internal oil passages. With any luck at all I'm 998 hours from doing that.
Rick
On 3/23/07, Herb Gayheart <herbgh(at)juno.com (herbgh(at)juno.com)> wrote:[quote] Rick
Sneaky post.. now---why three?? Herb
On Fri, 23 Mar 2007 17:56:02 -0500 "Richard Girard" <jindoguy(at)gmail.com (jindoguy(at)gmail.com)> writes:
| Quote: | John, You were right, the HKS doesn't have two oil pumps.
I got the HKS service manual in the mail today along with an extra set of spark plugs. Once I made sure the spark plugs were the correct ones, I opened the manual and the section detailing the disassambly of the oil pump was the first place I headed with great curiosity.
Looking at the oil system diagram in the installation manual and looking at the engine castings, I could have sworn that it had two pumps. The arrangement of the oil lines just didn't make sense unless there was a second pump. Why would the engineers spend the time and effort to use three castings to make the oil pump if there weren't two pumps?
When you're wrong, well, you're just wrong. There shouldn't be any beating around the bush, or hemming and hawing. Just admit you're wrong and get it over with.
So John, guys, I was wrong. I'm sorry if I led any of you astray. The HKS engine doesn't have two oil pumps.
It has three.
Do I get half credit?
Rick
--
Rick Girard
"Ya'll drop on in"
takes on a whole new meaning
when you live at the airport.
|
[quote][b] http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List http://forums.matronics.com
when you live at the airport. [quote][b]
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herbgh
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 145
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 5:23 pm Post subject: HKS oil system clarification |
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Rick
Wondering why one pump would not work..with the oil gravity feeding back to the tank. Herb
On Fri, 23 Mar 2007 20:12:24 -0500 "Richard Girard" <jindoguy(at)gmail.com (jindoguy(at)gmail.com)> writes:
[quote] Herb, I couldn't resist.
One pump, the bottom one in the stack is called the feed pump, the other two are just called inner pumps, so I surmise they are the scavenge pumps. There are two lines going from the pump housings to the oil tank, so my guess is that one of the scavenge pumps picks up the pressure line and sends the oil to the tank through the oil cooler, the other scavenge pump picks up all oil drained into the crankcase and sends it directly to the tank. At least that's how I'd do it. This would account for the low oil temperatures seen by Dave Bigelow and me. The oil temp sensor is at the bottom of the tank next to the line going to the feed pump. The only way to know for sure is to tear it down and physically trace the internal oil passages. With any luck at all I'm 998 hours from doing that.
Rick
[b]
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jindoguy(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 9:34 pm Post subject: HKS oil system clarification |
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Herb, I have no idea. Radial engines use a dry sump system because there's no place to put a sump and any drain back would be into the lower cylinders. Harley uses it because there's no way, no reasonable way, anyway, to get the tank below the engine. Nascar uses it partly for that reason and partly because it allows them to carry much more oil than a wet sump would. Perhaps this engine started life fitting into a different application and a dry sump was required for it. Interesting to try and reverse engineer it, though.
Rick
On 3/23/07, Herb Gayheart <herbgh(at)juno.com (herbgh(at)juno.com)> wrote:[quote] Rick
Wondering why one pump would not work..with the oil gravity feeding back to the tank. Herb
On Fri, 23 Mar 2007 20:12:24 -0500 "Richard Girard" <jindoguy(at)gmail.com (jindoguy(at)gmail.com)> writes:
| Quote: | Herb, I couldn't resist.
One pump, the bottom one in the stack is called the feed pump, the other two are just called inner pumps, so I surmise they are the scavenge pumps. There are two lines going from the pump housings to the oil tank, so my guess is that one of the scavenge pumps picks up the pressure line and sends the oil to the tank through the oil cooler, the other scavenge pump picks up all oil drained into the crankcase and sends it directly to the tank. At least that's how I'd do it. This would account for the low oil temperatures seen by Dave Bigelow and me. The oil temp sensor is at the bottom of the tank next to the line going to the feed pump. The only way to know for sure is to tear it down and physically trace the internal oil passages. With any luck at all I'm 998 hours from doing that.
Rick
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[quote][b] http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List http://forums.matronics.com
when you live at the airport. [quote][b]
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