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arno7452(at)bellsouth.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 6:30 am Post subject: Vne dependent on TAS?

Listers,

  

 A recent article in Kitplane magazine describes the  criticality of knowing TAS at relative high msl.  For example, if one is  flying at 8K to 10K, the indicated airspeed is significantly less than  TAS.  Therefore, an IAS of 90 could have TAS near Vne.

  

 I would be interested in offline comments from  anyone experiencing "flutter" or some other situation at these altitudes and how  you deal with the situations.

  

 Many thanks,

 Ken Arnold

   [quote][b]

wdleonard(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 7:07 am Post subject: Vne dependent on TAS?

Ken, 

 If you search the archives you will see that this issue is beaten deader than dead (no exceeding Vne pun intended).

 

David Leonard

 do not archive



Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY

My websites at:

http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/rotaryroster/index.html

 http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/vp4skydoc/index.html

http://leonardiniraq.blogspot.com 

 

 On 3/24/07, Ken Arnold <arno7452(at)bellsouth.net (arno7452(at)bellsouth.net)> wrote: [quote]  Listers,

  

 A recent article in Kitplane magazine describes the criticality of knowing TAS at relative high msl.  For example, if one is flying at 8K to 10K, the indicated airspeed is significantly less than TAS.  Therefore, an IAS of 90 could have TAS near Vne. 

  

 I would be interested in offline comments from anyone experiencing "flutter" or some other situation at these altitudes and how you deal with the situations.

  

 Many thanks,

 Ken Arnold

 	  Quote: 	
		  



	


[b]

deruiteraircraftservices(
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 7:36 am Post subject: Vne dependent on TAS?

Ken, 

  

 This is the very reason Van's doesn't support the  use of engines higher than advertised and normally aspirated.

 A normaly aspirated Lycoming will usually reach  full throttle height around 7500 feet AMSL/standard atmosphere. RV's can usually  go a bit higher due to the RAM effect of the intake air if the cowling and  baffling of intake has been carefully constructed, sometimnes as much as 1"MP  can be gained.

 Save for a very light RV, little fuel, no lugagge,  1POB, I don't think it's an issue really.

 However should you have the urge to up the HP even  a bit or use a TURBO where you can maintain your MP above the 7500 then you will  quickly come very close to the VNE, in a similar way as you can quickly achieve  VNE at low levels by high powersetting and just pushing the nose down. I recall  it could be achieved within a 1000feet drop with only 1800RPM set during the  testfase of my RV7.(180HP, FP, 1029LBS empty).

 [quote]   ---

tedd(at)vansairforce.org
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 7:40 am Post subject: Vne dependent on TAS?

Ken:



There's was a discussion of the relationship between TAS and flutter on the RV

List a year or so ago.  You should find lots about it in the archives.  The RV

List discussion was inspired by an article in the RVator called "Flying High

and Fast" (6th issue of 2004), in which Ken Krueger talks about the risk of

encountering flutter at high altitude, due to TAS being much higher than IAS.



(I'm not attempting to re-open the debate here, only to point Ken toward what

he's looking for.)



Tedd McHenry

Surrey, BC, Canada

DO NOT ARCHIVE

ronlee(at)pcisys.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 10:25 am Post subject: Vne dependent on TAS?

Go to the Vans Aircatft website and select RV 9/9A and 

then "Performance".  There is an article about Why can't I use a bigger 

engine" that has some good info.



Ron

Lee



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robin1(at)mrmoisture.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 11:00 am Post subject: Vne dependent on TAS?

Does anyone know if this article is available online? 



Robin

RV-4 Sold

RV-6A	350 Hours

RV-10 parts, parts, parts 



--

robin1(at)mrmoisture.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 11:04 am Post subject: Vne dependent on TAS?

Found it!



http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/hp_limts.pdf



as a discussion of the relationship between TAS and flutter on the RV

List a year or so ago.  You should find lots about it in the archives.

The RV List discussion was inspired by an article in the RVator called

"Flying High and Fast" (6th issue of 2004), in which Ken Krueger talks

about the risk of encountering flutter at high altitude, due to TAS

being much higher than IAS.



Robin

RV-10 still in pieces...

arno7452(at)bellsouth.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 12:27 pm Post subject: Vne dependent on TAS?

Listers,

Many thanks for all the good comments re:  TAS effect on Vne.  The Ken 

Kruger article is very good and very clear.  ie be very careful when 

calculating your closeness to Vne at higher altitudes.



My engine is Rotax 912 ULS.  I have determined the rule of thumb is multiply 

thousands by 1.5 which gives a percentage number to find IAS to compare with 

TAS.  For example, at 8K msl, multiply 8 x 1.5 = 12% reduction.  If Vne at 

sealevel was 110 mph then 110 x 0.88 = 96.8 mph IAS.



This is important news.  Other docs have sort of ignored the situation by 

discussing how much more efficient it is to fly a little higher.  Further, I 

think a placard pasted to the panel at some sample altitudes would be handy.



Again, many thanks,

Ken Arnold



---

pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 4:46 pm Post subject: Vne dependent on TAS?

I'm confused.  Well, maybe not.  If the discussion is based on 'bigger 

engines', then I can see the basis for the discussion.  However, VNE 

probably can't be attained in level flight ...... even with a lot of 

extra HP, so the VNE/TAS discussion should die right there.  In the 

absence of a turbo, flying at altitude will make that attempt even 

farther from attainment.  Also, the flutter design limit is higher than 

VNE (or should be  ) so that shouldn't be a problem.

So, where's the fear?? 

Linn

do not archive

Ken Arnold wrote:



[quote] 



 Listers,

 Many thanks for all the good comments re:  TAS effect on Vne.  The Ken 

 Kruger article is very good and very clear.  ie be very careful when 

 calculating your closeness to Vne at higher altitudes.



 My engine is Rotax 912 ULS.  I have determined the rule of thumb is 

 multiply thousands by 1.5 which gives a percentage number to find IAS 

 to compare with TAS.  For example, at 8K msl, multiply 8 x 1.5 = 12% 

 reduction.  If Vne at sealevel was 110 mph then 110 x 0.88 = 96.8 mph 

 IAS.



 This is important news.  Other docs have sort of ignored the situation 

 by discussing how much more efficient it is to fly a little higher.  

 Further, I think a placard pasted to the panel at some sample 

 altitudes would be handy.



 Again, many thanks,

 Ken Arnold



 ---

aerobubba(at)earthlink.ne
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 9:11 am Post subject: Vne dependent on TAS?

Hi Lynn-



The example you cite is fine as long as all on does is fly straight and level.  But consider the fellow that is on a long X/C, cruising along at 17,500.  He's probably indicating 1/3 to 1/2 of Vne at the most.  At top of descent he lowers the nose and keeps the power set.  Before long he's indicating close to red line while still descending through the teens.  His TAS is now well above Vne and bingo, flutter is a threat.  

 	  Quote: 	
		  

I'm confused.  Well, maybe not.  If the discussion is based on 'bigger 

engines', then I can see the basis for the discussion.  However, VNE 

probably can't be attained in level flight ...... even with a lot of 

extra HP, so the VNE/TAS discussion should die right there.  In the 

absence of a turbo, flying at altitude will make that attempt even 

farther from attainment.  Also, the flutter design limit is higher than 

VNE (or should be  ) so that shouldn't be a problem.

So, where's the fear?? 

Linn


	




Glen Matejcek

pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 1:57 pm Post subject: Vne dependent on TAS?

Glen ..... thanks for the 'view' ...... however, I think the engine is going to be way over redline before VNE would be capable ..... in a reasonable descent.Â  I don't have a problem wrapping up my O-360 to 3300 on the backside of a loop or hammerhead in my Pitts ..... but I doubt the average pilot in the RV-10 would be that vertical!!!Â  Since I don't have a -10 to 'play with' yet, this is all speculation on my part.Â  I just don't see running a steep downhill with full power as normal operation.

 Anyone know what the design flutter speed is??? 

 Linn

 do not archive

 Glen Matejcek wrote:

 [quote]    	  Quote: 	
		  --> RV-List message posted by: Glen Matejcek <aerobubba(at)earthlink.net> (aerobubba(at)earthlink.net)



Hi Lynn-



The example you cite is fine as long as all on does is fly straight and level.  But consider the fellow that is on a long X/C, cruising along at 17,500.  He's probably indicating 1/3 to 1/2 of Vne at the most.  At top of descent he lowers the nose and keeps the power set.  Before long he's indicating close to red line while still descending through the teens.  His TAS is now well above Vne and bingo, flutter is a threat.  

        	  Quote: 	
		  I'm confused.  Well, maybe not.  If the discussion is based on 'bigger 

engines', then I can see the basis for the discussion.  However, VNE 

probably can't be attained in level flight ...... even with a lot of 

extra HP, so the VNE/TAS discussion should die right there.  In the 

absence of a turbo, flying at altitude will make that attempt even 

farther from attainment.  Also, the flutter design limit is higher than 

VNE (or should be  ) so that shouldn't be a problem.

So, where's the fear?? 

Linn

    	
   



Glen Matejcek





  	
 [b]

dmaib@me.com

Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 454
Location: New Smyrna Beach, Florida

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 3:11 pm Post subject: Vne dependent on TAS?

I believe the issue is that Vne is a function of True AS at high altitude. As Glen pointed out, Indicated AS will be well below Vne in that scenario, but True AS may be fairly close. I don't believe the engine will go over redline in the scenario that Glen has put forth either. In fact, that is a very normal descent profile for me in my Bonanza. The constant speed prop keeps the RPM pretty much right where I set it. I will eventually have to reduce MP or RPM to keep speed down, but if all I was worried about was Indicated AS in that scenario, I could easily exceed Vne in True AS. In short, I could have an Indicated AS well below Vne and be perilously close to, or even over Vne as far as True AS is concerned.

My 2 cents worth, and that is exactly what it is worth!



David Maib

40559

Wings

On Mar 25, 2007, at 5:53 PM, linn Walters wrote:

  Glen ..... thanks for the 'view' ..... however, I think the engine is going to be way over redline before VNE would be capable ..... in a reasonable descent.  I don't have a problem wrapping up my O-360 to 3300 on the backside of a loop or hammerhead in my Pitts ..... but I doubt the average pilot in the RV-10 would be that vertical!!!  Since I don't have a -10 to 'play with' yet, this is all speculation on my part.  I just don't see running a steep downhill with full power as normal operation.

 Anyone know what the design flutter speed is??? 

 Linn

 do not archive

 Glen Matejcek wrote:

 [quote]   	  Quote: 	
		  



Hi Lynn-



The example you cite is fine as long as all on does is fly straight and level.  But consider the fellow that is on a long X/C, cruising along at 17,500.  He's probably indicating 1/3 to 1/2 of Vne at the most.  At top of descent he lowers the nose and keeps the power set.  Before long he's indicating close to red line while still descending through the teens.  His TAS is now well above Vne and bingo, flutter is a threat.  

       	  Quote: 	
		  I'm confused.  Well, maybe not.  If the discussion is based on 'bigger 

engines', then I can see the basis for the discussion.  However, VNE 

probably can't be attained in level flight ...... even with a lot of 

extra HP, so the VNE/TAS discussion should die right there.  In the 

absence of a turbo, flying at altitude will make that attempt even 

farther from attainment.  Also, the flutter design limit is higher than 

VNE (or should be  ) so that shouldn't be a problem.

So, where's the fear?? 

Linn

    	
  

Glen Matejcek





  	
 

href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com



[b]

_________________
David Maib
RV-10 #40559
New Smyrna Beach, FL

khorton01(at)rogers.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 3:14 pm Post subject: Vne dependent on TAS?

If our hypothetical guy in descent has a constant speed prop, then it  

will adjust its pitch to keep the engine from overspeeding.  This  

assumes that the coarse pitch stop on the prop is suitably set.



Kevin Horton



On 25 Mar 2007, at 18:53, linn Walters wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Glen ..... thanks for the 'view' ...... however, I think the engine  

 is going to be way over redline before VNE would be capable .....  

 in a reasonable descent.  I don't have a problem wrapping up my  

 O-360 to 3300 on the backside of a loop or hammerhead in my  

 Pitts ..... but I doubt the average pilot in the RV-10 would be  

 that vertical!!!  Since I don't have a -10 to 'play with' yet, this  

 is all speculation on my part.  I just don't see running a steep  

 downhill with full power as normal operation.

 Anyone know what the design flutter speed is???

 Linn

 do not archive

 Glen Matejcek wrote:

> 

> <aerobubba(at)earthlink.net> Hi Lynn- The example you cite is fine as  

> long as all on does is fly straight and level. But consider the  

> fellow that is on a long X/C, cruising along at 17,500. He's  

> probably indicating 1/3 to 1/2 of Vne at the most. At top of  

> descent he lowers the nose and keeps the power set. Before long  

> he's indicating close to red line while still descending through  

> the teens. His TAS is now well above Vne and bingo, flutter is a  

> threat.

>> I'm confused. Well, maybe not. If the discussion is based on  

>> 'bigger engines', then I can see the basis for the discussion.  

>> However, VNE probably can't be attained in level flight ......  

>> even with a lot of extra HP, so the VNE/TAS discussion should die  

>> right there. In the absence of a turbo, flying at altitude will  

>> make that attempt even farther from attainment. Also, the flutter  

>> design limit is higher than VNE (or should be  ) so that  

>> shouldn't be a problem. So, where's the fear?? Linn

> Glen Matejcek

pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 3:42 pm Post subject: Vne dependent on TAS?

David, I see the point.  I've been following a fixed pitch prop almost all my flying years ..... and in this case I think the constant speed prop will make the difference in controlling engine RPM.  However, can someone put some real numbers to the scenario???  If it's been done and I missed it, lemme know and I'll search.

 Linn

 do not archive

 

 David Maib wrote:

 [quote]I believe the issue is that Vne is a function of True AS at high altitude. As Glen pointed out, Indicated AS will be well below Vne in that scenario, but True AS may be fairly close. I don't believe the engine will go over redline in the scenario that Glen has put forth either. In fact, that is a very normal descent profile for me in my Bonanza. The constant speed prop keeps the RPM pretty much right where I set it. I will eventually have to reduce MP or RPM to keep speed down, but if all I was worried about was Indicated AS in that scenario, I could easily exceed Vne in True AS. In short, I could have an Indicated AS well below Vne and be perilously close to, or even over Vne as far as True AS is concerned.      

   My 2 cents worth, and that is exactly what it is worth!

      

   David Maib

   40559

   Wings

      

   

      On Mar 25, 2007, at 5:53 PM, linn Walters wrote:

    Glen ..... thanks for the 'view' ...... however, I think the engine is going to be way over redline before VNE would be capable ..... in a reasonable descent.  I don't have a problem wrapping up my O-360 to 3300 on the backside of a loop or hammerhead in my Pitts ..... but I doubt the average pilot in the RV-10 would be that vertical!!!  Since I don't have a -10 to 'play with' yet, this is all speculation on my part.  I just don't see running a steep downhill with full power as normal operation.

 Anyone know what the design flutter speed is??? 

 Linn

 do not archive

 Glen Matejcek wrote:

    	  Quote: 	
		        	  Quote: 	
		  --> RV-List message posted by: Glen Matejcek <aerobubba(at)earthlink.net>



Hi Lynn-



The example you cite is fine as long as all on does is fly straight and level.  But consider the fellow that is on a long X/C, cruising along at 17,500.  He's probably indicating 1/3 to 1/2 of Vne at the most.  At top of descent he lowers the nose and keeps the power set.  Before long he's indicating close to red line while still descending through the teens.  His TAS is now well above Vne and bingo, flutter is a threat.  

          	  Quote: 	
		  I'm confused.  Well, maybe not.  If the discussion is based on 'bigger 

engines', then I can see the basis for the discussion.  However, VNE 

probably can't be attained in level flight ...... even with a lot of 

extra HP, so the VNE/TAS discussion should die right there.  In the 

absence of a turbo, flying at altitude will make that attempt even 

farther from attainment.  Also, the flutter design limit is higher than 

VNE (or should be  ) so that shouldn't be a problem.

So, where's the fear?? 

Linn

    	
     Glen Matejcek





  	
   

href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com





	
 [b]

dmaib@me.com

Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 454
Location: New Smyrna Beach, Florida

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 5:02 pm Post subject: Vne dependent on TAS?

Somebody on this forum recently mentioned finding a good article about it in Vans Rvator publication. I am not sure how old it is or when it was published.

David

On Mar 25, 2007, at 7:37 PM, linn Walters wrote:

  David, I see the point.  I've been following a fixed pitch prop almost all my flying years ..... and in this case I think the constant speed prop will make the difference in controlling engine RPM.  However, can someone put some real numbers to the scenario???  If it's been done and I missed it, lemme know and I'll search.

 Linn

 do not archive

 

 David Maib wrote:

 [quote]I believe the issue is that Vne is a function of True AS at high altitude. As Glen pointed out, Indicated AS will be well below Vne in that scenario, but True AS may be fairly close. I don't believe the engine will go over redline in the scenario that Glen has put forth either. In fact, that is a very normal descent profile for me in my Bonanza. The constant speed prop keeps the RPM pretty much right where I set it. I will eventually have to reduce MP or RPM to keep speed down, but if all I was worried about was Indicated AS in that scenario, I could easily exceed Vne in True AS. In short, I could have an Indicated AS well below Vne and be perilously close to, or even over Vne as far as True AS is concerned.    

  My 2 cents worth, and that is exactly what it is worth!

    

  David Maib

  40559

  Wings

    

  

    On Mar 25, 2007, at 5:53 PM, linn Walters wrote:

   Glen ..... thanks for the 'view' ..... however, I think the engine is going to be way over redline before VNE would be capable ..... in a reasonable descent.  I don't have a problem wrapping up my O-360 to 3300 on the backside of a loop or hammerhead in my Pitts ..... but I doubt the average pilot in the RV-10 would be that vertical!!!  Since I don't have a -10 to 'play with' yet, this is all speculation on my part.  I just don't see running a steep downhill with full power as normal operation.

 Anyone know what the design flutter speed is??? 

 Linn

 do not archive

 Glen Matejcek wrote:

   	  Quote: 	
		       	  Quote: 	
		  



Hi Lynn-



The example you cite is fine as long as all on does is fly straight and level.  But consider the fellow that is on a long X/C, cruising along at 17,500.  He's probably indicating 1/3 to 1/2 of Vne at the most.  At top of descent he lowers the nose and keeps the power set.  Before long he's indicating close to red line while still descending through the teens.  His TAS is now well above Vne and bingo, flutter is a threat.  

         	  Quote: 	
		  I'm confused.  Well, maybe not.  If the discussion is based on 'bigger 

engines', then I can see the basis for the discussion.  However, VNE 

probably can't be attained in level flight ...... even with a lot of 

extra HP, so the VNE/TAS discussion should die right there.  In the 

absence of a turbo, flying at altitude will make that attempt even 

farther from attainment.  Also, the flutter design limit is higher than 

VNE (or should be  ) so that shouldn't be a problem.

So, where's the fear?? 

Linn

    	
    Glen Matejcek





  	
  href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com







	
 

href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com



[b]

_________________
David Maib
RV-10 #40559
New Smyrna Beach, FL

Kellym

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 6:32 pm Post subject: Vne dependent on TAS?

This all depends on whether you are discussing a certified aircraft or 

one of the RVs. Certified aircraft have been tested to a dive speed a 

percentage above Vne sufficient to account for all situations where one 

could get fast enough to worry about TAS. I have no hesitation about 

pushing over from any altitude my Mooney will reach (FL180+) and letting 

airspeed build to within 5mph of Vne and holding it there, assuming 

smooth air. At 18K my IAS level flight will be around 120 mph where Vne 

is 189mph. Perhaps some RVs don't have as much a flutter margin.

do not archive



David Maib wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   I believe the issue is that Vne is a function of True AS at high 

 altitude. As Glen pointed out, Indicated AS will be well below Vne in 

 that scenario, but True AS may be fairly close. I don't believe the 

 engine will go over redline in the scenario that Glen has put forth 

 either. In fact, that is a very normal descent profile for me in my 

 Bonanza. The constant speed prop keeps the RPM pretty much right where 

 I set it. I will eventually have to reduce MP or RPM to keep speed 

 down, but if all I was worried about was Indicated AS in that 

 scenario, I could easily exceed Vne in True AS. In short, I could have 

 an Indicated AS well below Vne and be perilously close to, or even 

 over Vne as far as True AS is concerned.



 My 2 cents worth, and that is exactly what it is worth!



 David Maib

 40559

 Wings

 O

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD

robin1(at)mrmoisture.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 8:43 pm Post subject: Vne dependent on TAS?

http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/hp_limts.pdf

  

 Robin



   From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David  Maib

Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 6:01 PM

To:  rv-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Re:Vne dependent on  TAS?

 

Somebody on this forum recently mentioned finding a good article  about it in Vans Rvator publication. I am not sure how old it is or when it was  published. 

 David

 

  

  [quote][b]

panamared5(at)brier.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 5:32 am Post subject: Vne dependent on TAS?

 	  Quote: 	
		  I'm confused.  Well, maybe not.  If the discussion is based on 

'bigger engines', then I can see the basis for the 

discussion.  However, VNE probably can't be attained in level flight 

...... even with a lot of extra HP, so the VNE/TAS discussion should 

die right there.


	




At 8000 feet max power available from an IO-360 180 HP, straight and 

level, I have exceeded TAS Vne on my RV6.  However my IAS was well below Vne.



Bob

RV6 "The Wicked Witch of the West"

Dick Sipp

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 215
Location: Hope, MI

Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:58 am Post subject: Vne dependent on TAS?

There is also an article on the subject in the current  Kitplanes magazine, written by Ken Scott at Van's.

  

 Dick Sipp

 RV10 40065

 [quote]         From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com)    [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David    Maib

Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 6:01 PM

To: rv-list(at)matronics.com (rv-list(at)matronics.com)

Subject:    Re: Re:Vne dependent on TAS?

   

Somebody on this forum recently mentioned finding a good article    about it in Vans Rvator publication. I am not sure how old it is or when it    was published.    

   David

   

[b]

panamared5(at)brier.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:55 am Post subject: Vne dependent on TAS?

 	  Quote: 	
		  <http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/hp_limts.pdf>http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/hp_limts.pdf




	


One of the articles talks about those who wish to put a 180 HP engine 

in an RV9 (a non aerobatic airplane that would probably fly 

reasonably well with a Rotax 912).  This reminds me of the movie "Tin 

Cup"  when Kevin Costner is bragging how he parred the back nine 

using a 7 iron?  And Don Johnson replied, that he never considered 

doing such a thing and why would anyone do it?



But, then again, I have been dreaming of hanging a 180 HP on my hang 

glider.  I don't know, but I guess I could do at least 4X Vne if 

total catastrophic failure does not happen first!



BTW, is there a term for exceeding Vne, sort of like the Mach 

number?  If not, maybe we as a group can come up with one?



Bob

RV6 "The Wicked Witch of the West"

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