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Round Holes / Workshop in basement

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tommylutz(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 4:33 am Post subject: Round Holes / Workshop in basement

Here's me being inquisitive and picky again:

Has anyone else ever noticed that drilled holes, if examined very closely, are not perfectly round?  I'm using bits supplied by Zenith and a Dewalt 110V drill.  This is probably a non-issue, but we learn by asking, right? 



Also, has anyone built a Zenith in his/her basement?  I'm looking for clearance dimensions to get all the parts out with ease.  I imagine I'd be screwed come time for the engine and rudder attachment, but that's not an immediate concern.  Currently, I access my basement from outside the house.  The stairs that go to the basement turn 90 degrees at the bottom, so obviously that would have to change.  I can imagine getting the wings out of the basement, but I'm not sure at all about the fuselage.  What size door would I need? 



Thanks,

Tom

  [quote][b]

agustafson(at)chartermi.n
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 5:06 am Post subject: Round Holes / Workshop in basement

A hole drilled with a fluted bit comes out somewhat  triangle shaped because there is not enough self guiding with the bit  itself.

  

 I built my entire 601 in my basement. Right from  the start I planned on putting a large door in to get it out. In 2000 as part of  a kitchen addition project, I installed a home made Bilco type door that cranks  up with a boat winch. It's 8 feet wide and 7' 4" high. I've had the plane out 3  times so far.

  

 Aaron Gustafson   Soon to take it out for  the last time!   do not archive

 [quote]   ---

rjscep(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 5:17 am Post subject: Round Holes / Workshop in basement

 	  Quote: 	
		   RJS/701

 TOM, sit down. It doesn't matter about the holes 

 being perfectly round, its going to be filled by a

 rivet. OK that said, figure out what size space you

 need to build your project. My garage is only 10'

 by 14' I'm ging to have to build my fuse in two 

 sections. I have an enclosed screen patio shed in 

 my back yard to store any part of the project till

 I'm ready to assemble. So you have to make choices

 and if you got to widen doorways or build add-ons. 

 It has to be done. I have known people that have 

 built their planes in bedrooms, seriously! So any

 questions feel free to email me. I'm going to take

 some pics soon and maybe compare notes. Do not   

 archive. 

--- Tom Lutz <tommylutz(at)gmail.com> wrote:
	




 	  Quote: 	
		   Here's me being inquisitive and picky again:

 Has anyone else ever noticed that drilled holes, if

 examined very closely,

 are not perfectly round?  I'm using bits supplied by

 Zenith and a Dewalt

 110V drill.  This is probably a non-issue, but we

 learn by asking, right?

 

 Also, has anyone built a Zenith in his/her basement?

  I'm looking for

 clearance dimensions to get all the parts out with

 ease.  I imagine I'd be

 screwed come time for the engine and rudder

 attachment, but that's not an

 immediate concern.  Currently, I access my basement

 from outside the house.

 The stairs that go to the basement turn 90 degrees

 at the bottom, so

 obviously that would have to change.  I can imagine

 getting the wings out of

 the basement, but I'm not sure at all about the

 fuselage.  What size door

 would I need?

 

 Thanks,

 Tom

 


	


 

Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate 

in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A.

http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545367

rjscep(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 5:18 am Post subject: Round Holes / Workshop in basement

 	  Quote: 	
		   RJS/701 rjscep(at)yahoo.com

 TOM, sit down. It doesn't matter about the holes 

 being perfectly round, its going to be filled by a

 rivet. OK that said, figure out what size space you

 need to build your project. My garage is only 10'

 by 14' I'm ging to have to build my fuse in two 

 sections. I have an enclosed screen patio shed in 

 my back yard to store any part of the project till

 I'm ready to assemble. So you have to make choices

 and if you got to widen doorways or build add-ons. 

 It has to be done. I have known people that have 

 built their planes in bedrooms, seriously! So any

 questions feel free to email me. I'm going to take

 some pics soon and maybe compare notes. Do not   

 archive. 

--- Tom Lutz <tommylutz(at)gmail.com> wrote:
	




 	  Quote: 	
		   Here's me being inquisitive and picky again:

 Has anyone else ever noticed that drilled holes, if

 examined very closely,

 are not perfectly round?  I'm using bits supplied by

 Zenith and a Dewalt

 110V drill.  This is probably a non-issue, but we

 learn by asking, right?

 

 Also, has anyone built a Zenith in his/her basement?

  I'm looking for

 clearance dimensions to get all the parts out with

 ease.  I imagine I'd be

 screwed come time for the engine and rudder

 attachment, but that's not an

 immediate concern.  Currently, I access my basement

 from outside the house.

 The stairs that go to the basement turn 90 degrees

 at the bottom, so

 obviously that would have to change.  I can imagine

 getting the wings out of

 the basement, but I'm not sure at all about the

 fuselage.  What size door

 would I need?

 

 Thanks,

 Tom

 


	


 

Don't pick lemons.

See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.

http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html

tommylutz(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 5:22 am Post subject: Round Holes / Workshop in basement

Aaron,

  

 Thanks for the informative response.  Glad to hear I'm not crazy.  I did notice that some of the holes were slightly triangular.

  

 I guess it's time to look into some contractors that can get the job done without breaking the bank.

  

 Tom



 

 On 4/4/07, Aaron Gustafson <agustafson(at)chartermi.net (agustafson(at)chartermi.net)> wrote: [quote]  A hole drilled with a fluted bit comes out somewhat triangle shaped because there is not enough self guiding with the bit itself.

  

 I built my entire 601 in my basement. Right from the start I planned on putting a large door in to get it out. In 2000 as part of a kitchen addition project, I installed a home made Bilco type door that cranks up with a boat winch. It's 8 feet wide and 7' 4" high. I've had the plane out 3 times so far. 

  

 Aaron Gustafson   Soon to take it out for the last time!   do not archive

 [quote] ---

planejim(at)bellsouth.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 5:26 am Post subject: Round Holes / Workshop in basement

Tom,

  

 I too used a 110 volt Dewalt to build my 601HD.  You are correct on the out-of-round holes. The best way of avoiding this is  sharp drill bits, the correct drill speed, correct pressure on the bit   and where possible the metal should be backed up when drilling. Thin  metal makes this worse too. 

  

 I built the HD in the basement. Built the entire  thing there except I did not rivet ( used many clecoes ) key pieces so that  it could be dissasemmbled and it would go out the door. Brought it out through a  standard 36" door. The tightest fit was the forward fuselage with the  centersection and the firewall attached. Note: if you are building a XL then  things will be different ( no center section ). I left the top piece of  metal forward of the instrument panel off too, till later.  Had to  turn it up 90 degrees so the the center section was vertical going through the  door. Also had to maneuver the firewall around to get it out. 

  

 I had left the aft fuselage unriveted at the  splice at the aft edge of the cockpit. This allowed the fuselage aft section to  be brought out the standard door easily.  Also had not riveted the turtle  deck pieces till later although all had been drilled and fitted. I transferred  i/2 of my work table ( it was made in two joined pieces ) to the garage and did  the final assembly there. It took only three of us a couple of hours to do the  complete transfer and then have it all set up, clecoed and ready for final  riveting in the garage. The main thing was I had measured to be sure this would  all work before hand. Good thing it did!!

  

 Good luck with yours.

  

 do not archive

  

 Jim Hoak - 601HD - Rotax 912UL - 541  hours

  

 [quote]   ---

planejim(at)bellsouth.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 5:49 am Post subject: Round Holes / Workshop in basement

Tom,

  

 Forgot one thing about the out-of-round holes. I  agree with Aaron about the pilot holes. I too drilled every hole with a #40 bit  first and then stepped them up. This is the procedure we teach at the basic  sheet metal workshop at Sun N Fun. This is the procedure I have used in  doing metal work for many years.  It takes more time but produces a better  product - usually!!

  

 do not archive

  

 Jim Hoak

 [quote]   ---

daveaustin2(at)primus.ca
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 8:49 am Post subject: Round Holes / Workshop in basement

Tom,

 You can build the fuselage in sections using  clecos, then dissemble and take out to the garage for assembly and rivetting,  which is what I did.

 Dave Austin  601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII

 [quote]   ---

planecrazydld(at)yahoo.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 9:36 am Post subject: Round Holes / Workshop in basement

the other thing you can do is drill with 1/8" then final drill with #30 (or 5/32 followed by #20 or #21 (whichever it is!)). You will find that the bur generated is minor and the circularity of the holes is much better - just make sure that you indeed do drill to size before installing the rivets or they will weaker than design. That is why the common practice is to use 3/32 then #30 - the size error is obvious.



Tom Lutz <tommylutz(at)gmail.com> wrote:  [quote]  Aaron,

   

  Thanks for the informative response.  Glad to hear I'm not crazy.  I did notice that some of the holes were slightly triangular.

   

  I guess it's time to look into some contractors that can get the job done without breaking the bank.

   

  Tom



 

  On  4/4/07, Aaron Gustafson <agustafson(at)chartermi.net (agustafson(at)chartermi.net)> wrote:   [quote]    A hole drilled with a fluted bit comes out somewhat triangle shaped because there is not enough self guiding with the bit itself.

   

  I built my entire 601 in my basement. Right from the start I planned on putting a large door in to get it out. In 2000 as part of a kitchen addition project, I installed a home made Bilco type door that cranks up with a boat winch. It's 8 feet wide and 7' 4" high. I've had the plane out 3 times so far. 

   

  Aaron Gustafson   Soon to take it out  for the last time!   do not archive

  [quote]  ---

Ron Lendon

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 685
Location: Clinton Twp., MI

Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 4:54 pm Post subject: Re: Round Holes / Workshop in basement

I am using an old 110v ac 2500 rpm Black & Decker 1/4" drill motor that I got from my father.  The high rpm's and starting with a small pilot and stepping up in size 2 to 3 times will produce the roundest holes.  I was going to get an air drill but this is really quieter and more practical.  



Don't know about the basement, but I am thinking of setting up some equipment down there.

_________________
Ron Lendon
WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing
CH 601 XLB
N601LT - Flying
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Corvair Engine Prints:
https://sites.google.com/site/corvairenginedata/

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