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Remote Fuel Cut Off

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p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 6:50 am Post subject: Remote Fuel Cut Off

All the talk about in flight fires reminded me of a discussion I 

heard many years ago.  It mentioned some sort of fuel tank connection 

that cut off fuel flow if the wings separate from the fuselage.  The 

discussion involved forced landings that nearly always result in 

fires because these simple devices were not installed in Wichita.



Does anybody know of a neat way to isolate the fuel tanks?  This 

would be handy for emergency landings and also for in flight fire situations.



Paul

XL fuselage

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Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 8:11 am Post subject: Re: Remote Fuel Cut Off

I geuss you could add a couple of cut off valves where the fuel lines come into the fueselage.

 	  p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att wrote: 	
		  All the talk about in flight fires reminded me of a discussion I 

heard many years ago.  It mentioned some sort of fuel tank connection 

that cut off fuel flow if the wings separate from the fuselage.  The 

discussion involved forced landings that nearly always result in 

fires because these simple devices were not installed in Wichita.



Does anybody know of a neat way to isolate the fuel tanks?  This 

would be handy for emergency landings and also for in flight fire situations.



Paul

XL fuselage

-

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Tim Juhl

Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 488
Location: "Thumb" of Michigan

Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 8:49 am Post subject: Re: Remote Fuel Cut Off

If the wings separate from the aircraft the only risk of fire comes from the fuel remaining in the lines within the fuselage    In my years chasing missing airplanes for the CAP the only accidents I remember where there was a post crash fire were ones where the occupants did not survive the impact.   If you can maintain control of your aircraft until control is taken away from you there is a good chance that you will survive.  Shedding wings and other pieces during a forced landing in rough terrain can actually help reduce the crash forces.  Shutting off fuel and electrics prior to impact can help as well.



I've attached a pix of a cherokee six that crashed recently in northern Michigan.  All survived albeit with injuries.   The pilot put it into the woods after the engine lost power.... he used his cell phone to direct rescuers to his location.



Fly safe!



Tim

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crash1.jpg

Description:

Cherokee six crash in N. Mich

Filesize:

157.01 KB

Viewed:

401 Time(s)

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ashontz

Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 723

Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:43 am Post subject: Re: Remote Fuel Cut Off

How the hell did they survive that?



do not archive



 	  Tim Juhl wrote: 	
		  If the wings separate from the aircraft the only risk of fire comes from the fuel remaining in the lines within the fuselage    In my years chasing missing airplanes for the CAP the only accidents I remember where there was a post crash fire were ones where the occupants did not survive the impact.   If you can maintain control of your aircraft until control is taken away from you there is a good chance that you will survive.  Shedding wings and other pieces during a forced landing in rough terrain can actually help reduce the crash forces.  Shutting off fuel and electrics prior to impact can help as well.



I've attached a pix of a cherokee six that crashed recently in northern Michigan.  All survived albeit with injuries.   The pilot put it into the woods after the engine lost power.... he used his cell phone to direct rescuers to his location.



Fly safe!



Tim

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Tim Juhl

Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 488
Location: "Thumb" of Michigan

Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:45 am Post subject: Re: Remote Fuel Cut Off

They clipped the treetops on the way in which slowed them down a bit. The engine separated from the fuselage although it rests only a few feet away from it.  The left side of the aircraft was opened up with the jaws of life so it was more intact when it came to rest.  What's really incredible is the condition of the cockpit (see attachment.) There were 4 souls on board and they waited about 3 hours for rescue.



Tim



BTW - I'm not trying to offend anyone with this discussion or photos.  I was involved with search and rescue for 25 years and have been an instructor for almost as long. I try to learn from such tragedies and share the lessons in the hope that others may be spared a similar fate.  Personally, I've had more close calls on the highway than in the air.

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crash3.jpg

Description:

Cherokee six crash - cockpit

Filesize:

137.38 KB

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ashontz

Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 723

Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:48 am Post subject: Re: Remote Fuel Cut Off

Ugh! How many broken limbs, particularly legs? That sounds ugly.



Good thing it didn't burst into flames. Bad enough you're stuck in there, worse you're stuck in there on fire.



People freak out over stuff like this, but it could just as easily happen in a car, maybe not the crashing through the treetops part, but being stuck in a burning car.



do not archive



 	  Tim Juhl wrote: 	
		  They clipped the treetops on the way in which slowed them down a bit. The engine separated from the fuselage although it rests only a few feet away from it.  The left side of the aircraft was opened up with the jaws of life so it was more intact when it came to rest.  What's really incredible is the condition of the cockpit (see attachment.) There were 4 souls on board and they waited about 3 hours for rescue.



Tim



BTW - I'm not trying to offend anyone with this discussion or photos.  I was involved with search and rescue for 25 years and have been an instructor for almost as long. I try to learn from such tragedies and share the lessons in the hope that others may be spared a similar fate.  Personally, I've had more close calls on the highway than in the air.

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MaxNr(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 3:40 pm Post subject: Remote Fuel Cut Off

What you're looking for is called a breakaway fuel fitting. They were beginning to be installed on military aircraft late 70's. Especially helicopters. I know UH-1 Hueys had them some where on the engine deck under the engine. If you can find a hulk you can rob, its easy to get off. Need both male and female ends. Wonder what they cost new from a supplier?

 

 They sort of look and work like an air hose coupling. Except no collar to slide. A strain on the line will cause the male and female to uncouple and will cause a shutoff. This prevents a cloud of fuel mist during the crash sequence. This cloud contacts arcing wires or hot exhaust and boom. 

 

 Another good practice is to put a loop of extra flexible fuel line at the point where wing joins fuselage. Idea is that a lot of structure can break and move without parting a taut fuel line. I like this method. 

 

 Uncle Sam gave me some formal training in crash survival design at Arizona State Univ, Tempe. DR Harry Robinson (Robertson?)was #2 man in the dept. He had a Tempe company that did research, design & mfr. of helicopter auxiliary fuel tanks. Robertson Tanks still sells to the Gvt and industry. They may be a source or reference for breakaway fuel valves. Don't ever see them AS or WagAero.

 

 Bob from Pace,Fl  

**************************************

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n801bh(at)netzero.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 3:59 pm Post subject: Remote Fuel Cut Off

This same concept has been in use on indy style and other types of racing cars for years. It is called a "dry break". When cars hit the wall or other cars the fuel lines will disconnect and the car sheds their outer componants to absorb energy. I am sure there are several vendors that carry these things. Try Earls performance fittings, or any number of other racing wharehouses. They are not that expensive either. 

do not archive

Ben Haas

N801BH

www.haaspowerair.com



-- MaxNr(at)aol.com wrote:

What you're looking for is called a breakaway fuel fitting. They were beginning to be installed on military aircraft late 70's. Especially helicopters. I know UH-1 Hueys had them some where on the engine deck under the engine. If you can find a hulk you can rob, its easy to get off. Need both male and female ends. Wonder what they cost new from a supplier?



They sort of look and work like an air hose coupling. Except no collar to slide. A strain on the line will cause the male and female to uncouple and will cause a shutoff. This prevents a cloud of fuel mist during the crash sequence. This cloud contacts arcing wires or hot exhaust and boom. 



Another good practice is to put a loop of extra flexible fuel line at the point where wing joins fuselage. Idea is that a lot of structure can break and move without parting a taut fuel line. I like this method. 



Uncle Sam gave me some formal training in crash survival design at Arizona State Univ, Tempe. DR Harry Robinson (Robertson?)was #2 man in the dept. He had a Tempe company that did research, design & mfr. of helicopter auxiliary fuel tanks. Robertson Tanks still sells to the Gvt and industry. They may be a source or reference for breakaway fuel valves. Don't ever see them AS or WagAero.



Bob from Pace,Fl  

**************************************

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Chris Lewis

Joined: 17 Mar 2006
Posts: 56
Location: Seattle

Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 8:10 am Post subject: Re: Remote Fuel Cut Off

Check this out:



http://www.spectrumct.com/products/14000/dimensions/



Chris in Seattle

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