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wild.blue(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 1:17 pm Post subject: filling air tanks

Y'all--

  

 I s'pose it goes without saying that any pressurized vessel (like onboard air tanks) can be dangerous.  You may recall that at the Reno races last year a very expensive (and formerly very pretty) P-51 had a very large hole blown in it because somebody overfilled an oxygen tank.  Didn't happen right away either--took a while after the fill. Fortunately (?), it happened on the ground, not in flight, nobody hurt.

  

 We gotta worry about both the contents and the pressure.  Be careful out there, especially if you let somebody else service your air supply.  Dennis' suggestion to place a conspicuous label--"compressed air only"--by the fill port is a good one.  I'd also add "maximum pressure 50 bar (735PSI)".

  

 P.S.

 For sale:  beautiful Yak-52TW, only 168TTSNEW, Whirlwind 3-blade, King, Garmin, lights, baggage, lotsa fuel etc.  Imported and sold here new--only $135K--half the price of a new Yak-52TW.  See my website/Barnstormers or call for details.  Hope to have her at ARS for the benefit of inquiring minds.

  

 Jerry Painter

 Wild Blue Aviation

   425-876-0865

 JP(at)FlyWBA.com (JP(at)FlyWBA.com)

 http://www.FlyWBA.com  

  

  

 Time: 11:09:36 AM PST US

 From: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese(at)elmore.rr.com ([email]dsavarese(at)elmore.rr Ecom[/email])>

 Subject: O2 in air tank??????

  

  

 This same situation happened a few years back and literally ejected the

 pilot from the Yak 52.  It blew lines, tank and everything else.  If someone

 was in the back seat, they would not have made it because of the shrapnel.

  

 Although there is no clear way to prevent someone unfamiliar with the

 airplane with filling the pneumatic system with O2, putting a conspicuous

 label at/around the external air fill port saying "compressed air only" in

 big, bold, letters may help at some point in time.

  

 Dennis

  

 "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure"

  

  

 ---

aerobaticgirl(at)yahoo.co
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 2:16 pm Post subject: filling air tanks

My question for everyone is ... why do you need a placard?  Who is PIC?  Are you not regulating your own a/c? The two times I have had to bum air at airports I got the maintainers to donate their nitro and it worked fine, but I knew better than to put pure O2 in.  I think this might be just a case of darwinism and you need to watch what you do with your ride.  Don't know the particulars of Reno, but the previous posts about dudes using pure O2 are frankly scary and self-critiquing!

  Smash



Jerry Painter <wild.blue(at)verizon.net> wrote:

  [quote]      v\:* {behavior:url (#default#vml);}      v\:* {   BEHAVIOR: url (#default#vml)  }              Y'all--

   

  I s'pose it goes without saying that any pressurized vessel (like onboard air tanks) can be dangerous.  You may recall that at the Reno races last year a very expensive (and formerly very pretty) P-51 had a very large hole blown in it because somebody overfilled an oxygen tank.  Didn't happen right away either--took a while after the fill. Fortunately (?), it happened on the ground, not in flight, nobody hurt.

   

  We gotta worry about both the contents and the pressure.  Be careful out there, especially if you let somebody else service your air supply.  Dennis' suggestion to place a conspicuous label--"compressed air only"--by the fill port is a good one.  I'd also add "maximum pressure 50 bar (735PSI)".

   

  P.S.

  For sale:  beautiful Yak-52TW,  only 168TTSNEW, Whirlwind 3-blade, King, Garmin, lights, baggage, lotsa fuel etc.  Imported and sold here new--only $135K--half the price of a new Yak-52TW.  See my website/Barnstormers or call for details.  Hope to have her at ARS for the benefit of inquiring minds.

   

  Jerry Painter

  Wild Blue Aviation

      425-876-0865

  JP(at)FlyWBA.com (JP(at)FlyWBA.com)

  http://www.FlyWBA.com  

   

   

  Time: 11:09:36 AM PST US

  From: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese(at)elmore.rr.com (dsavarese(at)elmore.rr.com)>

  Subject: O2 in air tank??????

   

    

  This same situation happened a few years back and literally ejected the

  pilot from the Yak 52.  It blew lines, tank and everything else.  If someone

  was in the back seat, they would not have made it because of the shrapnel.

   

  Although there is no clear way to prevent someone unfamiliar with the

  airplane with filling the pneumatic system with O2, putting a conspicuous

  label at/around the external air fill port saying "compressed air only" in

  big, bold, letters may help at some point in time.

   

  Dennis

   

  "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure"

   

   

  ---

f4ffm2(at)adelphia.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 7:52 pm Post subject: filling air tanks

Well, uh, gee gosh....that's an "interesting" position to take.  I must confess that there have been 1 or 2 occasions in my flying career when other people have done maintenance/service to "my" airplanes....military, airline, and even (gasp, say it isn't so!!!) my Yak or Sukhoi that I didn't personally supervise.  I guess I just didn't realize what a dangerous act I was performing by having professional maint./service people work on my airplanes without my direct supervision. I guess I should have realized that they could have made a mistake....and I should be there 24/7 to correct them.  Holy crap! (Of course, in the most politically correct sense of the expression...no insult intended to any real or imiginary religious being nor to any fecal matter that might be involved).

Roger________________________________________________________________________________

On Mar 30, 2007, at 3:15 PM, Sarah Tobin wrote:

[quote]My question for everyone is ... why do you need a placard?  Who is PIC?  Are you not regulating your own a/c? The two times I have had to bum air at airports I got the maintainers to donate their nitro and it worked fine, but I knew better than to put pure O2 in.  I think this might be just a case of darwinism and you need to watch what you do with your ride.  Don't know the particulars of Reno, but the previous posts about dudes using pure O2 are frankly scary and self-critiquing!

Smash



Jerry Painter <wild.blue(at)verizon.net (wild.blue(at)verizon.net)> wrote:

[quote]Y'all--

 

I s'pose it goes without saying that any pressurized vessel (like onboard air tanks) can be dangerous.  You may recall that at the Reno races last year a very expensive (and formerly very pretty) P-51 had a very large hole blown in it because somebody overfilled an oxygen tank.  Didn't happen right away either--took a while after the fill. Fortunately (?), it happened on the ground, not in flight, nobody hurt.

 

We gotta worry about both the contents and the pressure.  Be careful out there, especially if you let somebody else service your air supply.  Dennis' suggestion to place a conspicuous label--"compressed air only"--by the fill port is a good one.  I'd also add "maximum pressure 50 bar (735PSI)".

 

P.S.

For sale:  beautiful Yak-52TW, only 168TTSNEW, Whirlwind 3-blade, King, Garmin, lights, baggage, lotsa fuel etc.  Imported and sold here new--only $135K--half the price of a new Yak-52TW.  See my website/Barnstormers or call for details.  Hope to have her at ARS for the benefit of inquiring minds.

 

Jerry Painter

Wild Blue Aviation

425-876-0865

JP(at)FlyWBA.com (JP(at)FlyWBA.com)

http://www.FlyWBA.com  

 

 

Time: 11:09:36 AM PST US

From: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese(at)elmore.rr.com (dsavarese(at)elmore.rr.com)>

Subject: O2 in air tank??????

 

 

This same situation happened a few years back and literally ejected the

pilot from the Yak 52.  It blew lines, tank and everything else.  If someone

was in the back seat, they would not have made it because of the shrapnel.

 

Although there is no clear way to prevent someone unfamiliar with the

airplane with filling the pneumatic system with O2, putting a conspicuous

label at/around the external air fill port saying "compressed air only" in

big, bold, letters may help at some point in time.

 

Dennis

 

"An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure"

 

 

---

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:24 am Post subject: filling air tanks

Every fill port for every type of fluid or gas that could in any way be

serviced by line personnel should be labeled and clearly marked to

prevent ANY type of confusion.  The idea to add one where one may be

missing is unquestionably sound judgement.  



Mark Bitterlich 

N50YK



P.s.  Smash, I too like to do everything myself as well.  BUT.....Do you

know for sure which ones are legal for you to actually do, or even

Supervise?  That list would make an interesting question some day, but

for me... I just do it and worry about the consequences later.  In other

words, I go too far the OTHER direction...admittedly. As for pure oxygen

being pumped into your tank.... How are you going to know FOR SURE (I

repeat... FOR SURE) just WHAT is inside the bottle that is connected to

your aircraft and filling up your tank?  The only way to be 100%

absolutely positive is for you to have filled the tank, that is actually

filling your aircraft.  I do that... Do you?    



--

viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 1:20 pm Post subject: filling air tanks

Guys,

There is one way to absolutely know if what  is in the green bottle is pure

O2. Hold a lighter infront of the nozzle! 

You'll get the light show of your life if it is pure 02. If it is

compressed air, you'll blow your lighter's flame out!

I for one do not have the gonades to do that and am not looking for a

Darwin Award so I'm not going to do something that stupid. 

Now a more common sense way would be to look at the green bottle, say "that

is a GREEN" bottle with a yolk on it. That must mean the it has or had 02

in it and it will probably do some serious damage to my airplane or me if I

put it in my fill port. The only way you know what goes in your airplane is

to monitor what is being done to it. Otherwise, you are at the mercy of

that pimplely assed lineboy or that crusty ol FBO manager! Learn your

airplanes and know what is being done to them.

Doc 

 	  Quote: 	
		   [Original Message]

 From: Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E

<mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil>
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   To: <yak-list(at)matronics.com>

 Date: 4/4/2007 2:30:59 PM

 Subject: RE: filling air tanks



 

MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil>
	


[quote]

 Every fill port for every type of fluid or gas that could in any way be

 serviced by line personnel should be labeled and clearly marked to

 prevent ANY type of confusion.  The idea to add one where one may be

 missing is unquestionably sound judgement.  



 Mark Bitterlich 

 N50YK



 P.s.  Smash, I too like to do everything myself as well.  BUT.....Do you

 know for sure which ones are legal for you to actually do, or even

 Supervise?  That list would make an interesting question some day, but

 for me... I just do it and worry about the consequences later.  In other

 words, I go too far the OTHER direction...admittedly. As for pure oxygen

 being pumped into your tank.... How are you going to know FOR SURE (I

 repeat... FOR SURE) just WHAT is inside the bottle that is connected to

 your aircraft and filling up your tank?  The only way to be 100%

 absolutely positive is for you to have filled the tank, that is actually

 filling your aircraft.  I do that... Do you?    



 --

yakplt(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 3:51 pm Post subject: filling air tanks

Hi Doc.  

   

  I am from an area where everyone who lives here is known as a "good ole boy".  The color on the high pressure bottles around here are the color that happened to be in the spray gun when the guy pulled the trigger that released the mist.  

   

  There is a grey and black tank that is filled with compressed air instead of nitrogen.  A yellow and green that is filled with CO2.   An argon tank that who knows WHAT is inside of it.  

   

  So buddy.... unless you DO test it, or know for sure who filled that bottle last, you are STILL at the mercy of the folks at the FBO.  

   

  mgb

   

   

  p.s.  The local dive shop will fill any bottle with compressed air that you bring in as long as it has a valid test stamp.  They could care less what color it is... after all, diving  tanks come in any color that you want, starting with blue.  The only people I have seen get really serious about tank color are people that work in the local hospital, but hey.. they are not good ole boys. 

   

  p.p.s.  We could always put a canary in a box and spray some gas in it's face and see what happens!  Worked for the coal miners!   



Roger Kemp <viperdoc(at)mindspring.com> wrote:

  [quote]--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Kemp" 



Guys,

There is one way to absolutely know if what is in the green bottle is pure

O2. Hold a lighter infront of the nozzle! 

You'll get the light show of your life if it is pure 02. If it is

compressed air, you'll blow your lighter's flame out!

I for one do not have the gonades to do that and am not looking for  a

Darwin Award so I'm not going to do something that stupid. 

Now a more common sense way would be to look at the green bottle, say "that

is a GREEN" bottle with a yolk on it. That must mean the it has or had 02

in it and it will probably do some serious damage to my airplane or me if I

put it in my fill port. The only way you know what goes in your airplane is

to monitor what is being done to it. Otherwise, you are at the mercy of

that pimplely assed lineboy or that crusty ol FBO manager! Learn your

airplanes and know what is being done to them.

Doc 

 	  Quote: 	
		   [Original Message]

 From: Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E


	


 	  Quote: 	
		   To: 

 Date: 4/4/2007 2:30:59 PM

 Subject: RE: filling air tanks



 --> Yak-List message posted by: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point,

MALS-14 64E"  
	


[quote]

 Every fill port for every type of fluid or gas that could in any way be

 serviced by line personnel should be labeled and clearly marked to

 prevent ANY type of confusion. The idea to add one where one may be

 missing is unquestionably sound judgement. 



 Mark Bitterlich 

 N50YK



 P.s. Smash, I too like to do everything myself as well. BUT.....Do you

 know for sure which ones are legal for you to actually do, or even

 Supervise? That list would make an interesting question some day, but

 for me... I just do it and worry about the consequences later. In other

 words, I go too far the OTHER direction...admittedly. As for pure oxygen

 being pumped into your tank.... How are you going to know FOR SURE (I

 repeat... FOR SURE) just WHAT is inside the bottle that is connected to

 your aircraft and filling up your tank? The only way to  be 100%

 absolutely positive is for you to have filled the tank, that is actually

 filling your aircraft. I do that... Do you? 



 --

viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 5:32 pm Post subject: filling air tanks

MGB,

 On could do what I did. I took one of my steel (silver) dive tanks and used it for my compressed gas tank in the hanger. I took it to the dive shop to have it filled. I made the schrader valve conversion on  my YAK. I bought a first stage manifold from my dive shop, high pressure hose, a 5000 psi pressure gauge, and an air fitting  so I could refill my tank if it leaked down for some reason. I also bought a pony tank that fits nicely in a helmet bag with the fill hose/manifold for when I go on road trips. It guarantees me at least two attempts at a start with the amount of air in the pony tank. The pony tank is painted yellow by the way. That is the way that I know for sure what is going into my plane provided I trust my dive shop operator. Now that could be another ball of wax too I guess. 

 We have Bubba's down here in Al too. So I feel allot more comfortable taking my own spare air on the road with me than asking a good ol' boy if they have any spare air around I can use to fill my tanks to start my plane. 

 I sure as heck am not going to  do the flammable gas test with a lighter.  Now I guess one could fill a balloon or a latex glove with the gas from that questionable tank and light it off with that lighter or a flaming stick from a distance. There will be a nice bang when the balloon goes up just have to dodge the melted plastic fragments. We could also check with the local chemistry lab to see who has a mass spectrometer. They could burn the gas in a controlled combustion and analyze the gas for us. We would know for sure then  what was in the tank. 

 I believe this tread started with the question of what color is an oxygen tank. Green. Now what happens out there in Bubba town happens in Bubba town. With all the lawyers standing behind the bushes just waiting for a personal injury lawsuit if I were a FBO operator in the business of servicing aircraft on my ramp, I would think twice about being a good ol boy an just put air in what ever I could find that would hold it. Just mort one aircraft owner from filling his airplane's air tank with 02 and see how fast the $1 million liability policy will be eaten up if he even has liability coverage. 

 So to avoid such, I carry my own air on the road. Your call after all it's your rosey pink that is risk here.

 Doc

  

 



  

 [quote] ---

dsavarese(at)elmore.rr.co
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:53 am Post subject: filling air tanks

There is one other alternative.  Learn how to properly  hand prop your airplane.  Then you'll be sure that only compressed air goes  into the main air tank.

 Dennis

  

 [quote]   ---

viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 5:46 am Post subject: filling air tanks

Forgot one thing. One could also buy a 02 analyzer. The last unit I priced from Drager was $1500 or you could buy their 5 gas analyzer for around $5000. That way you'll know if that unknow gas is C02, 02, C0, He, Ar, or N20. There are a whole sprectrum of analyzer wafers one could place in this portable system. It even comes with it's own carrying case, charger, and computer hookup soft/hardware. 

 Guess you could go to your friendly anesthesiologist and ask him to stick his 02 analyzer into your bag of unknown gas. If it reads 98-100% then you probably have pure 02. If you don't then you have something else. Either way I'm not putting it in my air tank without knowing what it is.

 As for hand propping, without the aircraft chocked,tied securely down, and the brakes locked if I am doing this by myself I am not even going to think about it. Without someone sitting in the cockpit that has a reasonable clue as to what to do agian I am not even considering it. Others may, but not me. I can get air from a dive shop if my pony tank leaked down because I have my stage one regulator with me on the road. We can always ask our friend over at Tallassee that hand propped his 50 when it was out of air. Not a happy camper after it taxied through his hanger and a couple of other aircraft too! So  much for chocks!

 Doc

  

 



  

 [quote] ---

f4ffm2(at)adelphia.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 5:51 am Post subject: filling air tanks

Dennis suggestion is a very good one.  The M-14P is, if done properly, among the easiest of engines to prop.

Roger__________________________________________________________________



On Apr 5, 2007, at 4:52 AM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote:

[quote]There is one other alternative.  Learn how to properly hand prop your airplane.  Then you'll be sure that only compressed air goes into the main air tank.

Dennis

 

[b]

MarkWDavis

Joined: 03 Jan 2007
Posts: 104
Location: Syracuse, KS

Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 6:12 am Post subject: filling air tanks

Don't forget about a strut pump with appropriate  adaptors.  Takes a long time to pump it up and an air compressor which  makes at least 130 psi, but you know what you're getting out of the end of the  hose.

  

 Mark Davis

 N44YK

 [quote]   ---

dsavarese(at)elmore.rr.co
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 6:16 am Post subject: filling air tanks

Learning how to properly hand prop your airplane if of  particular importance should the air start valve fail and the air start valve in  your particular airplane does not have the manual release tab it.  A full  tank of air will do you no good should any failure of the air start system  occur.

  

 Then there are the "sissy Yak's", which are those that  have the electric start on them. 

 Dennis

  

 [quote]   ---

cjpilot710(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 6:42 am Post subject: filling air tanks

In a message dated 4/5/2007 10:18:34 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  dsavarese(at)elmore.rr.com writes:

  

 A small flat blade screw driver, inserted in one of the small rectangular  holes on the Chinese start valves, will work the same way.  However knowing  how to hand prop these engine is a very handy thing in a real pinch.  The  strut pump is a very good idea and is usually around most maintenance  shops.

  

 Jim "Pappy" Goolsby

  

 [quote]   Learning how to properly hand prop your airplane if of    particular importance should the air start valve fail and the air start valve    in your particular airplane does not have the manual release tab it.  A    full tank of air will do you no good should any failure of the air start    system occur.

    

   Then there are the "sissy Yak's", which are those that    have the electric start on them. 

   Dennis

    

   [quote]     ---

drc(at)wscare.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 8:05 am Post subject: filling air tanks

Or if the sissy electric start is not working also.  This happened to me - no air, dead starter and it was quite exciting to hand prop.  I had a cub, and have hand propped the wilga - very easy compared to the yak - but with enough gas and air in the cylinders it it not too bad.  BE SURE YOU HAVE GOOOD HELP.  AND PROP FROM THE LEFT BEHIND THE PROP.  GOOD COMMUNICATION SPOT WITH THE COCKPIT AND FOR SAFETY !!- when the m-14 fires of hand propping it is overwhelming if your helper has only hand propped cubbies.

Herb



On Apr 5, 2007, at 9:16 AM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote:

[quote]Learning how to properly hand prop your airplane if of particular importance should the air start valve fail and the air start valve in your particular airplane does not have the manual release tab it.  A full tank of air will do you no good should any failure of the air start system occur.

 

Then there are the "sissy Yak's", which are those that have the electric start on them. 

Dennis

 

[quote]---

dsavarese(at)elmore.rr.co
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 9:44 am Post subject: filling air tanks

You are right on the money Herb.  ALWAYS hand prop from  behind the prop.  Must less intimidating and certainly much safer for  sure.  With no air, tying the airplane down is and absolute must.   

 Dennis

  

 [quote]   ---

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:41 am Post subject: filling air tanks

Brings up another point.  



Most if not all of our aircraft came with an air start valve that had a

tab on it for manual operation.  If you replace this valve, the newer

model valve lacks this tab.  So, always SAVE that OLD VALVE.  The lower

case half that contains the tab will screw right on the new replacement

valve retaining the manual capability of the valve.  



My suggestion.... Never throw a Russian part away.... You just never

know what part inside of it might become essential someday. 



Mark Bitterlich 

N50YK   





--

rvfltd(at)televar.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 12:01 pm Post subject: filling air tanks

Mark,

I can only speak to the Chinese start valves but they seem to be fond of 

removing the tab but oddly enough they seem to do it upon installation.  

I say this because 100% of the new valves received from China have the 

tabs in place.  



Always Yakin,

Doug



Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E wrote:



[quote]



Brings up another point.  



Most if not all of our aircraft came with an air start valve that had a

tab on it for manual operation.  If you replace this valve, the newer

model valve lacks this tab.  So, always SAVE that OLD VALVE.  The lower

case half that contains the tab will screw right on the new replacement

valve retaining the manual capability of the valve.  



My suggestion.... Never throw a Russian part away.... You just never

know what part inside of it might become essential someday. 



Mark Bitterlich 

N50YK   





--

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 12:09 pm Post subject: filling air tanks

I'd be curious to know whether the CJ start valve is identical to the

Russian one.  



I need to send you a few digital images. 



Mark

 



--

aerobaticgirl(at)yahoo.co
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 6:08 pm Post subject: filling air tanks

Me personally, I bought an industrial size tank (4' tall) and filled it myself at a local air distributer, so I know when I fill my tank, yes.  That is my technique...and when I bought the tank I asked them to paint it yellow to preclude any confusion.



"Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil> wrote:  [quote]--> Yak-List message posted by: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" 



Every fill port for every type of fluid or gas that could in any way be

serviced by line personnel should be labeled and clearly marked to

prevent ANY type of confusion. The idea to add one where one may be

missing is unquestionably sound judgement. 



Mark Bitterlich 

N50YK



P.s. Smash, I too like to do everything myself as well. BUT.....Do you

know for sure  which ones are legal for you to actually do, or even

Supervise? That list would make an interesting question some day, but

for me... I just do it and worry about the consequences later. In other

words, I go too far the OTHER direction...admittedly. As for pure oxygen

being pumped into your tank.... How are you going to know FOR SURE (I

repeat... FOR SURE) just WHAT is inside the bottle that is connected to

your aircraft and filling up your tank? The only way to be 100%

absolutely positive is for you to have filled the tank, that is actually

filling your aircraft. I do that... Do you? 



--

cjpilot710(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 7:29 pm Post subject: filling air tanks

In a message dated 4/5/2007 4:13:17 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil writes:

 

 

 

They are exactly the same except that the Russian one has the little manual  

tab that you Yak guys move with your toe.

Pappy

 

 




MALS-14  64E" <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil>



I'd be curious to know whether  the CJ start valve is identical to the

Russian one.  



I need to  send you a few digital images. 



Mark





-----Original  Message-----

From:  owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com

[mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com]  On Behalf Of Doug Sapp

Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 16:01

To:  yak-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: filling air  tanks






Mark,

I can only speak to the Chinese  start valves but they seem to be fond of

removing the tab but oddly enough  they seem to do it upon installation.



I say this because 100% of the  new valves received from China have the

tabs in place.  



Always  Yakin,

Doug



Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E  wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  

--> Point, MALS-14 64E"  <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil>



Brings up another point.   



Most if not all of our aircraft came with an air start valve  that had a


	


 	  Quote: 	
		  tab on it for manual operation.  If you replace  this valve, the newer 

model valve lacks this tab.  So, always  SAVE that OLD VALVE.  The lower


	


 	  Quote: 	
		  case half that contains the  tab will screw right on the new replacement


	


 	  Quote: 	
		  valve retaining the  manual capability of the valve.



My suggestion.... Never throw a  Russian part away.... You just never 

know what part inside of it might  become essential someday.



Mark Bitterlich  

N50YK    





-----Original  Message-----

From:  owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com

[mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com]  On Behalf Of A. Dennis 

Savarese

Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007  13:43

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: filling  air tanks



You are right on the money Herb.  ALWAYS hand  prop from behind the

prop.
	


 	  Quote: 	
		  Must less intimidating and certainly much  safer for sure.  With no air,


	


 	  Quote: 	
		  tying the airplane down is and  absolute must.

Dennis

 



    -----  Original Message ----- 

    From: Herb Coussons  <mailto:drc(at)wscare.com>  

    To:  yak-list(at)matronics.com 

    Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007  11:04 AM

    Subject: Re: filling air  tanks



    Or if the sissy electric start is not  working also.  This

happened to 
	


 	  Quote: 	
		  me - no air, dead starter and  it was quite exciting to hand prop.  I 

had a cub, and have hand  propped the wilga - very easy compared to the 

yak - but with enough  gas and air in the cylinders it it not too bad.  

BE SURE YOU HAVE  GOOOD HELP.  AND PROP FROM THE LEFT BEHIND THE PROP.  

GOOD  COMMUNICATION SPOT WITH THE COCKPIT AND FOR SAFETY !!- when the 

m-14  fires of hand propping it is overwhelming if your helper has only 

hand  propped cubbies.



     Herb





    On Apr 5, 2007, at  9:16 AM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote:

       

        Learning how to properly hand prop  your airplane if of

particular 
	


 	  Quote: 	
		  importance should the air start  valve fail and the air start valve in 

your particular airplane does  not have the manual release tab it.  A 

full tank of air will do  you no good should any failure of the air 

start system  occur.

        

         Then there are the "sissy Yak's", which are those that

have the  
	


[quote]electric start on them. 

         Dennis

        



       ---

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