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912 UL with IVO props

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RRTRACK(at)AOL.COM
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 7:10 am Post subject: 912 UL with IVO props

Can the 912 UL be operated with the ultralight 3 blade 70" IVO IFA prop  with out a clutch in the gear reduction? It shows to weigh 9.5 lbs. Lockwood  wants $1000 to add the clutch to my gearbox.

 Desert Fox Flyers or KitfoxMike any suggestions here?

 Also, will the cruise pitch lug the engine too much. What rpm on the 912 UL  would be best for cruise?

 Thanks for any help here.

 Mark

 Wisconsin

 Kitfox Vixen 912 UL (IVO IFA on order)



See what's free at AOL.com. 

  [quote][b]

kitfoxmike

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 373

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 12:53 pm Post subject: Re: 912 UL with IVO props

You don't need the clutch.  That's the prop I have.  I set for 5400rpm, which is max, for take off.  I don't have any washers added inside the motor.  I run full out level and then lower rpm with the prop to 5200, pull back the throttle about a fingers length and maintain 5200. Been getting about 110kts ground speed gps, sometimes more, been playing with it.  I do have another issue right now and that's my floats are giving troubles, they are sinking.  I have the latest and greatest on the way, if you can believe 200 bucks for 4 of those buggers.  But I need them.

wannafly

Joined: 13 Oct 2006
Posts: 53

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 2:18 pm Post subject: 912 UL with IVO props

Hi Mike



what is your prop reduction...if you are running 5400 engine what is the 

prop speed?

I have a 2.17 reduction on a Subaru. I cruise at 4000 rpm so my prop will be 

turning at 1843 rpm. At what speed is the prop the most efficient?  I want 

to get the medium IVO 72" 3 blade.

Any thoughts?



Thanks   Mic

Fox IV Speedster

C-FOXX



 	  Quote: 	
		  From: "kitfoxmike" <customtrans(at)qwest.net>

Reply-To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: 912 UL with IVO props

Date: Sat,  7 Apr 2007 13:53:57 -0700






You don't need the clutch.  That's the prop I have.  I set for 5400rpm, 

which is max, for take off.  I don't have any washers added inside the 

motor.  I run full out level and then lower rpm with the prop to 5200, pull 

back the throttle about a fingers length and maintain 5200. Been getting 

about 110kts ground speed gps, sometimes more, been playing with it.  I do 

have another issue right now and that's my floats are giving troubles, they 

are sinking.  I have the latest and greatest on the way, if you can believe 

200 bucks for 4 of those buggers.  But I need them.



--------

kitfoxmike

model IV, 1200

speedster

912ul

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Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 3:11 pm Post subject: 912 UL with IVO props

I have my own way of Finding leaks in floats.  I had a compartment lid with

a hole drilled in it and an automotive tubeless tire valve installed in it.

With the floats in the water I used to pressurize the compartment with a

bicycle pump put on the dive mask and look underneath to see where the

bubbles come from.



Patch with PRC from the outside... Water pressure will push the PRC into the

leak and allow it to seal.



The first place to check for leaks is right around the keep at the step



To apply the PRC the floats should be dry so all you have to do is mark the

area of the leaks with a crayon or talk stick.  Usually drying can be helped

with Methyl hydrate or acetone.  That will help clean the surfaces for the

PRC to stick to.



Noel



[quote] --

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

kitfoxmike

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 373

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 4:00 pm Post subject: Re: 912 UL with IVO props

I have a 2.2 gear reduction, I figure the engine should run below 5200rpm, so that's where I keep it for cruise, and I don't like the idea of having an engine opened up all the way.  I'm still experimenting with the prop, so that's what I'm going with right at this time. I have thought of shortening the prop up to an inch more.



Noel,

I have two issues with the floats, one if you let the floats set in the fuel in the bowls you can see that one floats a little lower the the other, this is my rich run lately.  The other that started a couple days ago is on full throttle the engine would start running real bad, farten and spitten.  If I pulled the throttle back lets say to 3/4, it would run better, a real eye opener, got my juices going, since this happened on take off.  I had a hard time getting it to do it on the ground. So, I went up three times to find the problem, finally after landing I let it sit and and full throttled it and finally it did it on the ground, I pulled the throttle back and hit the mags, then I turned the fuel off real quick.  After pulling the bowls I found the left side was overflowing with fuel and one of the floats stuck to the bottom.  I ordered the newest floats and that's that.

lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 4:41 pm Post subject: 912 UL with IVO props

Mike,



Lots of folks have trouble running the Rotax at the recommended cruise RPM. 

The book says 5500 as does Eric Tucker the North American technical rep for 

Rotax.  He's the guy that gives the Rotax Forums at the Fly-ins



On the way to Arizona last week on one of the stops, one of our guys was in 

a friendly debate with one of the folks that doesn't like "Rotax" this 

regarding the RPMs run.  Hal made the point that his - the guy's - planned 

0200 with it's 4" stroke had a higher piston speed at 2700 RPM than his 912 

with it's 2" stroke at 5500 PRM.  It is Hal's contention, and I tend to 

agree,  that it is piston speed that breaks engines, not RPM.   These things 

are designed for 5800 RPM for five minutes and 5500 RPM all day.   I suspect 

you are cheating yourself out of some performance with no real long term 

benefit.



Lowell



---

crazyivan

Joined: 25 Aug 2006
Posts: 62
Location: Pensacola

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 4:48 pm Post subject: Re: 912 UL with IVO props

Mark - I have a 912 UL with the 72" ultralight Ivo and it works great.  The Ivo is about 1.7 lbs lighter than the GSC and out performs it in all respects.  No clutch needed.



I bought this prop from John & Debra at Kitfox www.kitfoxaircraft.com and they confirmed the size from IvoProp.  Since this prop was recommended by Kitfox and Ivo, I was not required by my FSDO to do a 5-hour test period on this "major change."  



You might sacrifice a little climb rate with the 70" prop but you should get a little higher cruise speed because you will be able to pitch it more.



Let us know how it turns out.

_________________
Dave
Piper PA-22/20

rjdaugh

Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Posts: 195

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 4:57 pm Post subject: 912 UL with IVO props

Eric Tucker also makes the point in seminars that cylinder pressures are

higher at lower RPM than they are at 5500 RPM.  He says run 'em at 5500 RPM.



I do still often loaf around at 4900 - 5000 RPM on my 912S.  But when I am

going some place it is 5500!



Randy 



.           

--

_________________
Randy
Kitfox 5/7 912S
Black Hills, South Dakota

kitfoxmike

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 373

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 5:24 pm Post subject: Re: 912 UL with IVO props

I meant to say I don't like to go below 5200 rpm, I will say 5200 rpm is a nice smooth, quit setting.  The IVO with 70" seems a little much in my opinion for the rpms.  I would like a little more rpms.  So my thought after getting the engine to run correctly, is to cut 1/4 inch off and see what happens, it is suppose to increase the rpms by doing this.  I have a bunch more pitch that i can put into the prop, so I don't think it will hurt, but help.

crazyivan

Joined: 25 Aug 2006
Posts: 62
Location: Pensacola

Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 2:58 am Post subject: Re: 912 UL with IVO props

kitfoxmike - I can get 115+ mph with my 72" IvoProp straight and level with a compromise cruise/climb pitch.  I can get maybe a few more mph with a cruise pitch.  I don't think the top speed would be effected very much by chopping the prop down; drag rises as the square of the speed and with 80 hp, you are probably topped out at around 115 or so.  I believe you will lose a substantial amount of climb rate, though.  



Give Ivo a call and see what they think.

_________________
Dave
Piper PA-22/20

Kem Dunnebacke

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 9
Location: New Bern N.C.

Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 4:52 am Post subject: Re: 912 UL with IVO props

Kitfoxmike can you contact me off list please 252-638-5828 would like to ask what model Ivo you have the light or the med.?thanks kem 3163K

_________________
kitfox IV PLAY Speedster H-30

7suds(at)Chartermi.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 6:12 am Post subject: 912 UL with IVO props

Mike,

If you do not mind posting the info to the list I would like to hear what 

prop, pitch, gearbox ratio etc you are running.

Thanks,

Lloyd



---

kitfoxmike

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 373

Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 6:20 pm Post subject: Re: 912 UL with IVO props

gear ratio 2.2

prop   IVO inflight 70" ultralight

912ul engine  95 vintage

speedster wings



So far ground speed with 5200rpm about an inch from full throttle gives me anywhere between 100 and 105kts ground speed GPS, you do need to start with 5800 and then trim the prop to lower the rpm.  I need to make more test, since the plane is grounded right at the moment, this will have to wait. Take off is way cool, generally around 1800 ft per minute.  But then again I need more air time to test fully.

crazyivan

Joined: 25 Aug 2006
Posts: 62
Location: Pensacola

Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 1:37 pm Post subject: Re: 912 UL with IVO props

Correction to my previous post.  The 72" 3-blade ultralight IvoProp is 2.7 lbs lighter than the GSC (I stated 1.7lbs earlier in this thread).

_________________
Dave
Piper PA-22/20

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