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bing 64 carb

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kitfoxmike

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 373

Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 6:25 am Post subject: bing 64 carb

Group,

I have been fighting a weard problem with my rotax and thought I would relay so far what I have found.  



First off I've had issues with the left carb flooding out whenever I would remove the bowl, hit and miss that it would flood out when I started after repairs. been going on as long as I can remember.



second problem has been an over rich system, black out the exhaust and all over the bottom of the plane.



Recently I've been trying to correct the rich mixture, which I account for sinking floats.  I also started having problems with an engine miss when at full throttle after removing the bowls and cleaning out the carb with carb cleaner.



I took the badly sinking float and put it in a miny oven at about 80degrees to try and get the fuel out.  Good idea, but maybe not, after about 15 minutes I checked the float and it was on the bottom of the oven with holes blown out throughout the float, bummer, I ordered a whole new set of floats, but they weren't gonna be here for 5 days, I ordered on friday with 3 working days for ship. Now what am I gonna do, you see I have this addiction that I need to satisfy, fly every day, sometimes twice.



So I researched and found JB weld is fuel proof.  So I smeard quick JB on all the eareas that blew out.  walla, I have a float, in fact it floated  better than the rest.  I installed and on take off the engine started farten and buckin.  After much trial and error I finally got it to do it on the ground.  I hit the mags and turned off the fuel.  Removed the left carb and found the float I fixed was stuck on the bottom.  Rats, no flying until wednesday, crap.  



Well I am a deep thinker and one thing I did notice on the left carb is the pin that holds the float was missing a piece on the bottom, the only way to discribe it is it looks like a pop rivet with out the shank.  Last night I pulled the bowl and really wanted to fix the float sticking problem.  So I took an aluminum pop rivet that I found in my tool box at the hanger that looked the right size and knocked the pin out and walla the thing slid down the shaft, except it was a little long, so I took a file and filed the end a little to match the other stops on the other pins.  I installed the float and It wouldn't catch on the bottom.  Being 7:30 at night I rushed to put the cowls back on and made it to the runway at 7:45, about 15 minutes after sunset, you sport pilots would have had to wait till the next day.  I run the engine up, worked great, got clearance and shot up in the air, ran good with no miss, flew another 20 minutes without any problem.  



Landed and could see that I'm still runing rich, so I hope the new floats help out.  I also have a vibration off idle, I think that might be from the rich condition.  But the heavy miss at wide open throttle and my flood out at times after removing the bowls is fixed. 



kitfoxmike

912ul

model 4 speedster

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 8:15 am Post subject: bing 64 carb

At 07:25 AM 4/11/2007, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Landed and could see that I'm still runing rich, so I hope the new 

floats help out.


	


I enjoyed your entertaining post. You're quite the nut but it sounds 

like you get the job done.  I wonder, though, why do you think the 

new floats will affect the mixture? (I understand they will if they 

sink, as in they will flood the engine, but I never knew that you 

could actually change the mixture with them.)





Guy Buchanan

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

kitfoxmike

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 373

Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 8:50 am Post subject: Re: bing 64 carb

Well, I guess because the fuel in the bowls are runing high this will cause a richer mixture, simple carb function.  I use to see this in auto engines all the time, what fixed the problem was fuel injection.  



I'm glad I entertain people on this network.

kitfoxmike

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 373

Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 9:05 am Post subject: Re: bing 64 carb

guy,

try to understand the carb here, no you're not effectively richening the mixture, as far as the needles are concerned.  But what is happening is the fuel is high in the bowl, any vibration, any off center, would cause fuel to go over the top of the bowl and go into the intake of the engine.  Thus richin the mixture.  Why do you think they have a float level adjustment.  When I removed the bowl after turning off the fuel the level was right up there.  



I've run this engine for 500 hrs and had good burn, now it's running rich, I haven't changed anything.  So I want to get rid of the known variable, the floats and then start changing settings after that.  It already has new needles, arms, and pins.



Sorry you think I'm a nut.

dosmythe(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:11 am Post subject: bing 64 carb

http://www.ultralightnews.com/enginemaintenance/bingcarbtuning.htm



See above site about carb adjustment.  See the small notes about rich/lean 

depending on float height.



Don Smythe

---

kitfoxmike

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 373

Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 12:17 pm Post subject: Re: bing 64 carb

Thanks Don, 



Good read.  I went out to the airport and installed my floats.  I didn't run the engine to check floats, but I did make sure the arms set straight out when pushed against the needle lightly.  I installed the bowl and turned on the fuel, waited and waited and then removed the bowl and had an exceptable level, about half inch from top.  Not sure if this measurment is for the 64 as well or not.  Replaced spark plugs and went flying.  Did much better, I would say 80percent.  Still a small amount of vibration off idle, but exceptable.  Will do more adjustments, maybe turn in the idle mixture a little, calibrate the two carbs, see what I get.

dosmythe(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 12:45 pm Post subject: bing 64 carb

Did you check the blades which might cause the vibration.  I had one blade 

on a GSC that slipped just a tad and caused vibration.  Also, check the two 

carb slides are in sync.  A quick and dirty way is open the slides gently 

until a smooth socket will just gently slip into opening.  Check the other 

carb at the same time and adjust one or the other with the top cable adjust.



Don Smythe

---

dosmythe(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 1:07 pm Post subject: bing 64 carb

Pardon me folks.  I don't think I read the carb post's too well.  My 

comments were about the Bing 54 carbs not 64.  I'm not familiar with the 

64's at all.



Sorry,

Don Smythe

Do Not Archive



---

kitfoxmike

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 373

Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 3:00 pm Post subject: Re: bing 64 carb

Thanks Don for the carb trick, will check that.  On the prop, anything is possible, I wanted to do the repairs on the engine first before going after the prop.  I was told already to switch two blades and try. I think I'll do that, that will also make any missplaced prop blade get back in line.

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 3:14 pm Post subject: bing 64 carb

You certainly can to an extent lean out an engine by adjusting the level of

fuel in the float bowls.  If the floats float higher the fuel in the bowl

regulates itself lower and there by makes the venturi work harder to get

fuel, thus leaning the engine.  This principle works on all kinds of

carburettors except pressure carbs used on some radial engines.



Noel



[quote] --

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 3:21 pm Post subject: bing 64 carb

If the engine was running properly before the floats went down like the

Titanic.  Then I guess it's reasonable to assume that replacing the floats

will correct your mixture problems.  For what a set of floats cost I would

probably replace both sets because the other set is probably just as old as

the set that went south.



I'm sorry you're not a nut



You may consider me a "Wing Nut"



Noel



[quote] --

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

dosmythe(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 4:26 pm Post subject: bing 64 carb

Remember, my comments were mistakenly about the Bing 54 not the 64.  I don't 

know anything about the 912's but on a 582 you need to correct both carbs 

and prop at the same time since one will effect the other.



Don Smythe

---

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 6:42 pm Post subject: bing 64 carb

At 10:05 AM 4/11/2007, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  But what is happening is the fuel is high in the bowl, any 

vibration, any off center, would cause fuel to go over the top of 

the bowl and go into the intake of the engine.  Thus richin the mixture.


	


I understand. It's not enough to flood, but more than you get via the 

jets. How is it getting into the venturi? In the 54 the vent is 

overboard and the jets are immersed. There's no other path to the 

venturi. Does the 64 have some path to the venturi that's above fuel 

level? Or is it that the additional hydraulic pressure of the high 

fuel level makes it easier for the venturi suction to pull fuel 

through the main and needle jet?



 	  Quote: 	
		  Sorry you think I'm a nut.


	


Now don't take it personally; I meant it in a kind way. Your 

enthusiasm makes me happy.

Guy Buchanan

San Diego, CA

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

kitfoxmike

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 373

Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 5:55 am Post subject: Re: bing 64 carb

Guy,

I'm no expert on the bing.  But I do know many of the parts are the same between.  So I'm going to assume that the 64 operates the same.  High or low floats will effect the fuel entering the main jets for the fuel transfer is straight up and out.



As far as being a nut, I except your explaination.  I am a person full of energy and sitting idle is not my game.  I always have to be doing something.

wannafly

Joined: 13 Oct 2006
Posts: 53

Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:59 am Post subject: bing 64 carb

Hey KITFOXMIKE



full of energy and sitting idle is not your game.....good thing you are not 

in school or they would want to drug you and tell you that you have some 

condition with a real long name....LOL



Are you going to Arlington this july ?

I plan on...may even fly this year...



Mic

C-FOXX

speedster

subaru EA81



DO NOT ARCHIVE

 	  Quote: 	
		  From: "kitfoxmike" <customtrans(at)qwest.net>

Reply-To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: bing 64 carb

Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 06:55:33 -0700






Guy,

I'm no expert on the bing.  But I do know many of the parts are the same 

between.  So I'm going to assume that the 64 operates the same.  High or 

low floats will effect the fuel entering the main jets for the fuel 

transfer is straight up and out.



As far as being a nut, I except your explaination.  I am a person full of 

energy and sitting idle is not my game.  I always have to be doing 

something.



--------

kitfoxmike

model IV, 1200

speedster

912ul

Do not archive





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=106485#106485






	


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kitfoxmike

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 373

Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 1:22 pm Post subject: Re: bing 64 carb

Right at this point, I plan on flying to Arlington.  Weather is the deciding point.  Just like last year, many people didn't make it over the hill(mountains) last year, but come friday it was real nice, guess what? I flew over, best time ever.

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