Matronics Email Lists :: View topic - GSIO-540 - comments, common failures, bugs, running

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

GSIO-540 - comments, common failures, bugs, running

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Commander-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

philipguziec(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 5:53 am Post subject: GSIO-540 - comments, common failures, bugs, running

 	  Quote: 	
		  Pg, the excalibur conversion was actually the IO-720 s mounted on the 

T-bone. mason


	


Mason and commander list,



There were two types of excalibur conversions, the IO 720 and the GSIO-540.  There were also GO 480 versions and GSIO 480 versions.



I've heard all kinds of scary stories from people who have not actually owned and flown the GIO series of Lycomings, and then I've heard from a few folks who have flown behind them who really like them for smoothness, quietness, etc.  I'd be quite comfortable owning and flying a GO 480, but I'd be really interested in talking to someone who as actually flown behind GSIO 480s or GSIO 540s about their experiences and any idiosyncrasies related to the supercharged versions.



Phil

- The Matronics Commander-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List

WINGFLYER1(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 12:06 pm Post subject: GSIO-540 - comments, common failures, bugs, running

I don `t profess to be an expert because I have only flown my 680 with the  GSO-480-B1-A6 (340 hp engines ) fifty hours. I can tell you that it is one  powerful machine! The times on my engines are 350 hours and 10 hours on the  props. When I fire the engines up I can hear a little clanging going on due to  the props but after it is warmed up and about 1200 RPM the props are loaded and  you don `t hear anything from the gears. My oil consumption is running about a  third to half quart an hour. It seems to be coming from the breather tube and  not burning any at all. I think maybe I `ll try an air/oil seperator. I have had  nothing but a good experience with the engines thus far. I also have an Aztec  with IO-540 (250 HP) and I have flown that airplane to TBO 2,000 hrs. and have  only changed out two cylinders. It is a GREAT engine with no bad habbits! Hope  this helps. Gil Walker



See what's free at AOL.com. 

  [quote][b]

- The Matronics Commander-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List

YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:04 pm Post subject: GSIO-540 - comments, common failures, bugs, running

In a message dated 4/10/2007 6:57:03 AM Pacific Daylight Time, philipguziec(at)yahoo.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  GO 480, but I'd be really interested in talking to someone who as actually flown behind GSIO 480s 	


 I have flown a bit over 500hrs on my 680E Commander (GSO 480B1A6)  I have also ferries a couple of 680s in various states of disrepair and neglect. Even engines that have been sitting idel for many years come back to life and perfrome great.  Here is the skinny.  The GSO 480 is a GERAT ENGINE!!!   they almos alwas make or exceed TBO (1400hr).  They are very smooth and very strong running.  I drive a 1967 SS 427 El Camino (among other old muscle cars) and the Commander will out run most of them on T.O.  The engines have pressure carbs (think throttle body F.I.)  These are very depedibal and relatively inexpensive to overhaul.

     Now for the bad news.  The geared, supercharged engines can be hurt by miss handling them.  If properly flown, no problem, fly them like their direct drive brethren, big problem.  Learning to properly fly them is no real issue, but does require a bit of training and discipline.

     I have no real experience with the IGSO 540 but have heard little good about them.  I am aware of several premature failures and they seem to seldom make their TBO (only 1200hr).  jb



See what's free at AOL.com. 

  [quote][b]

- The Matronics Commander-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List

philipguziec(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 5:57 am Post subject: GSIO-540 - comments, common failures, bugs, running

 	  Quote: 	
		  I don `t profess to be an expert because I have only flown my 680 with the  

GSO-480-B1-A6 (340 hp engines ) fifty hours. I can tell you that it is one  

powerful machine! The times on my engines are 350 hours and 10 hours on the  

props. When I fire the engines up I can hear a little clanging going on due to


	


 	  Quote: 	
		  the props but after it is warmed up and about 1200 RPM the props are loaded and


	


 	  Quote: 	
		  you don `t hear anything from the gears. My oil consumption is running about 

a  third to half quart an hour. It seems to be coming from the breather tube 

and  not burning any at all. I think maybe I `ll try an air/oil seperator. I 

have had  nothing but a good experience with the engines thus far. 


	


Thanks Gil.  I figured 380 hp a side would make for one stellar and quiet performer.  What are our operating procedures?  Do you leave the mixture levers forward and let the altitude compensation system set the mixture?  What power settings are you running in cruise and what's the fuel burn like?  I have a few hours on an Aztec F.  How do you operate your 680 differently than the Aztec with regards to the geared engines?



 	  Quote: 	
		  I have flown a bit over 500hrs on my 680E Commander (GSO 480B1A6)  I have 

also ferries a couple of 680s in various states of disrepair and neglect. Even

engines that have been sitting idel for many years come back to life and 

perfrome great.  Here is the skinny.  The GSO 480 is a GERAT ENGINE!!!   they almos

alwas make or exceed TBO (1400hr).  They are very smooth and very strong 

running.  I drive a 1967 SS 427 El Camino (among other old muscle cars) and the

Commander will out run most of them on T.O.  The engines have pressure carbs 

(think throttle body F.I.)  These are very depedibal and relatively inexpensive

to overhaul.


	


Good to know, jb.  What's the gross on the 680E?  How it perform on one engine?  One of the big reasons I'm considering an excalibur Tbone is the performance if I lose one on takeoff with four people and bags in the airplane.



 	  Quote: 	
		  Now for the bad news.  The geared, supercharged engines can be hurt by 

miss handling them.  If properly flown, no problem, fly them like their direct

drive brethren, big problem.  Learning to properly fly them is no real issue, 

but does require a bit of training and discipline.

  
	


How do they need to be handled differently than the unsupercharged geared engines, and what kind of damage comes about from mishandling?



 	  Quote: 	
		  I have no real experience with the IGSO 540 but have heard little good 

about them.  I am aware of several premature failures and they seem to seldom 

make their TBO (only 1200hr).  


	


Can you share the specifics of the failures you've heard about?  Are they gearbox, blown jugs, broken cranks?  In flight or found during annual?



Another question I have is regarding the operation of the geared engines.  I understand that you want to keep the gears from chattering near idle power, but do you always need to keep them positively loaded?  Can you make sure the props are producing some power or producing some braking, but make sure you don't leave the power near zero thrust?  How do you handle reduction to idle on landing?



Thanks for all the help.



Phil

- The Matronics Commander-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List

moe(at)rosspistons.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 6:43 am Post subject: GSIO-540 - comments, common failures, bugs, running

The IGSO540B1A (or C or B) engines are pretty much of a strange animal.  I have a little more that 800 hours of flight in a 680F(p).   The main problems are:    Simmonds      fuel injection system.  $ 4,000.00 each to overhaul, and the mixture lever      requires constant attention on the ground as the pumps use oil pressure to      opeate the internal “computer”.  Only one company in the      world can legally overhaul them, and as soon as you get them back take      your plane to Morris and get him to “fine tune” them.     
The      ease with which they can be overboosted (even on the ground).    
If      you have an IGSO540B1A it should be converted to an IGSO540B1C (get rid of      the mags that use 12 separate coils, and go to normal mags.)  This      will save you a lot of weight, money, and headaches.  
They      are the shortest TBO of any engine that Lycoming ever built, and the most      expensive to overhaul (between $ 42,000.00 and $ 67,000.00 each a couple      of years ago).  Conventional wisdom rumors are that a top overhaul will      be required on each engine at about 600 hours.  Figure about $ 125.00      to $ 150.00 per hour for the engines, and you will be OK.  
Don’t      ever run one out of fuel while in flight.  Restarting takes a long      time, and the re-fire is so jerkey, that you stand a good chance of serious      injury to the gear box.     

<![if !supportLists]>6.       <![endif]>Taxi can be very hard on the brakes (double so with the air conditioner on) because you want to keep the engine RPM above 1,200 at all times (1,500 is better) If you let someone else start the engines (mechanic for instance) be darn sure that they know not to let the engines idle below 1,200 RPM.     At      altitude run between 75F and 100F lean of peak at about 65% power.     

   

The good news is that they make good power even at a high altitude hot airfield.    

   

Ya gotta love ‘em to run ‘em  

   

Moe Mills  

680F(p)  

   

         

  

From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of YOURTCFG(at)aol.com

 Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2007 10:04 PM

 To: commander-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Commander-List: GSIO-540 - comments, common failures, bugs, running  

  

       

In a message dated 4/10/2007 6:57:03 AM Pacific Daylight Time, philipguziec(at)yahoo.com writes:  

   	  Quote: 	
		    

GO 480, but I'd be really interested in talking to someone who as actually flown behind GSIO 480s  	
  

    

I have flown a bit over 500hrs on my 680E Commander (GSO 480B1A6)  I have also ferries a couple of 680s in various states of disrepair and neglect. Even engines that have been sitting idel for many years come back to life and perfrome great.  Here is the skinny.  The GSO 480 is a GERAT ENGINE!!!   they almos alwas make or exceed TBO (1400hr).  They are very smooth and very strong running.  I drive a 1967 SS 427 El Camino (among other old muscle cars) and the Commander will out run most of them on T.O.  The engines have pressure carbs (think throttle body F.I.)  These are very depedibal and relatively inexpensive to overhaul.  

    

    Now for the bad news.  The geared, supercharged engines can be hurt by miss handling them.  If properly flown, no problem, fly them like their direct drive brethren, big problem.  Learning to properly fly them is no real issue, but does require a bit of training and discipline.  

    

    I have no real experience with the IGSO 540 but have heard little good about them.  I am aware of several premature failures and they seem to seldom make their TBO (only 1200hr).  jb  

  



 

         

  

See what's free at AOL.com.   

   	  Quote: 	
		    http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List 	
0 	  Quote: 	
		   	
1 	  Quote: 	
		   	
2 	  Quote: 	
		   	
3 	  Quote: 	
		   	
4

        [quote][b]

- The Matronics Commander-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List

WINGFLYER1(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 8:38 am Post subject: GSIO-540 - comments, common failures, bugs, running

Phil, I don`t touch the mixture at all. I let the compensators do their  work. I run the engines (at) 65% .2600RPM and 30" burns about 17 Gal an hour per  engine (34 Gal.) if you want to go faster 40" and 3,000RPM will burn around 40  Gallons an hour both engines. I try to be as easy on the props as I can and do  not move them abruptly. I also plan my descent so that the engines and props are  always pulling and then ease the props back once I am leveled off. As I said I  have only flown the 680 fifty hours and am always trying to learn from you guys  with experience. Thanks Gil



See what's free at AOL.com. 

  [quote][b]

- The Matronics Commander-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List

philipguziec(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:33 am Post subject: GSIO-540 - comments, common failures, bugs, running

Thanks for all the info Moe.



 	  Quote: 	
		  1.    Simmonds fuel injection system.  $ 4,000.00 each to overhaul, and

the mixture lever requires constant attention on the ground as the pumps use

oil pressure to opeate the internal "computer".  Only one company in the

world can legally overhaul them, and as soon as you get them back take your

plane to Morris and get him to "fine tune" them.   


	


I'll check if this plane has Simmonds injection or Bendix.



 	  Quote: 	
		  2.    The ease with which they can be overboosted (even on the ground).  


	


Do they produce more than rated manifold pressure at sea level with full throttle?  How are they typically overboosted?



 	  Quote: 	
		  4.    They are the shortest TBO of any engine that Lycoming ever built,

and the most expensive to overhaul (between $ 42,000.00 and $ 67,000.00 each

a couple of years ago).  Conventional wisdom rumors are that a top overhaul

will be required on each engine at about 600 hours.  Figure about $ 125.00

to $ 150.00 per hour for the engines, and you will be OK.


	


That's what I was figuring.  What is the TBO?  1200?



 	  Quote: 	
		  5.    Don't ever run one out of fuel while in flight.  Restarting takes a

long time, and the re-fire is so jerkey, that you stand a good chance of

serious injury to the gear box.  


	


Also good to know.



 	  Quote: 	
		  7.    At altitude run between 75F and 100F lean of peak at about 65%

power.  


	


What's the fuel flow at that setting?  What's the MP/RPM that gives 65%?



 	  Quote: 	
		  The good news is that they make good power even at a high altitude hot

airfield.  


	


And quiet, I hear.



 	  Quote: 	
		  Ya gotta love 'em to run 'em


	


I'm getting that sense.  There is one heck of a coolness factor, though.



Thanks for all the help, Moe.



Phil

- The Matronics Commander-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List

moe(at)rosspistons.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 12:24 pm Post subject: GSIO-540 - comments, common failures, bugs, running

--

- The Matronics Commander-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Commander-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum