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M3X incidence & dihedral

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pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 1:14 am Post subject: M3X incidence & dihedral

Also is this 1.5deg per wing panel or combined? >>



Hi Scott,



if you change the dihedral angle by 1.5 degrees at each panel you will have 

a unique and very eyecatching design.



Cheers



Pat



do not archive

JetPilot

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246

Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 3:17 pm Post subject: Re: M3X incidence & dihedral

 	  pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com wrote: 	
		  



if you change the dihedral angle by 1.5 degrees at each panel you will have 

a unique and very eyecatching design.



Cheers



Pat



do not archive 	




You mean something like this ?   It would have been funky looking, but it was so unique and eye catching, that it did not stay that way...



Mike

_________________
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!

Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S

JetPilot

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246

Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 3:17 pm Post subject: Re: M3X incidence & dihedral

 	  pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com wrote: 	
		  Also is this 1.5deg per wing panel or combined? >>



Hi Scott,



if you change the dihedral angle by 1.5 degrees at each panel you will have 

a unique and very eyecatching design.



Cheers



Pat



do not archive

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"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!

Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S

icrashrc

Joined: 16 Mar 2006
Posts: 247
Location: Mishawaka, In

Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 8:20 pm Post subject: Re: M3X incidence & dihedral

As near as I can tell from that pic there is at least 6 deg of dihedral on that plane. 



I went back thru all the pics I've taken of Kolbs over the years and measured the dihedral angle where possible. I've found anywhere between zero and 5 degrees total over the entire wing. Anything less than 1 degree per wing half tends to look like the wingtips are drooping to me.

 

Donnie (at) Kolb told me the proper spec for the M3X is 1.5 degrees per wing half. He also told me incidence should be 2.8 degrees. 



BTW, Piper Cubs appear to have 1 degree per panel.

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Scott

www.ill-EagleAviation.com

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John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 8:36 pm Post subject: M3X incidence & dihedral

Anything less than 1 degree per wing half tends to look like the 

wingtips are drooping to me.

 | Scott

Scott:



That is what Homer thought too.  So he added a tiny bit of dihedral 

for aesthetic reasons only.  He preferred a staight wing, but it 

looked like they drooped when sitting on the ground.



I have no idea how many degrees dihedral the wings on my Ultrastar, 

Firestar, or mkIII have.  The instructions said to put a block under 

the outboard rib to raise it a certain distance above level.  That is 

what I did and I am happy.



When he recently rebuilt the 1985 Oshkosh Grand Champion Ultralight, 

his Kolb Firestar, he added addtional dihedral to see how it would 

fly.  I forget how many degrees, but he told me he kinda liked it.



john h

mkIII

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John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

icrashrc

Joined: 16 Mar 2006
Posts: 247
Location: Mishawaka, In

Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 7:24 am Post subject: Re: M3X incidence & dihedral

 	  John Hauck wrote: 	
		  Anything less than 1 degree per wing half tends to look like the 

wingtips are drooping to me.

 | Scott



I have no idea how many degrees dihedral the wings on my Ultrastar, 

Firestar, or mkIII have.  The instructions said to put a block under 

the outboard rib to raise it a certain distance above level.  That is 

what I did and I am happy.



john h

mkIII 	




John,



 I know it's been a while but do you have any idea how big the block of wood was and where exactly you were supposed to place it?

Thanks,

_________________
Scott

www.ill-EagleAviation.com

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John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 7:51 am Post subject: M3X incidence & dihedral

| I know it's been a while but do you have any idea how big the block 

of wood was and where exactly you were supposed to place it?

| Thanks,

|

| --------

| Scott

Scott/Gang:



Just so happens I have a revised copy of the Kolb MKIII Builders 

Manual, 7/29/92.



"INSTALLING LIFT STRUTS.



The next step is the installation of the wing struts.  Set the wing 

dihedral by raising the wing tip 1-1/2 inches (measured at the 

outboard rib).  Install a shim under the wing at the H-supports to 

hold this position.  Now the lift struts may be made to fit."



That is verbatem out of the manual, and the distance and procedure I 

remember from doing mine in 1991.

IIRC, the Ultrastar and Firestar were set at 1", outboard rib.



Take care,



john h

mkIII

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

ul15rhb(at)juno.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:51 am Post subject: M3X incidence & dihedral

Scott, I went with 2.5 inches measured from the last rib. It looks 

better and there still is plenty of maneuverability.



Ralph Burlingame

Original Firestar

20 years flying it



-- "icrashrc" <icrashrc(at)aol.com> wrote:


John Hauck wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Anything less than 1 degree per wing half tends to look like the 

 wingtips are drooping to me.

  | Scott

 

 

 

 I have no idea how many degrees dihedral the wings on my Ultrastar, 

 Firestar, or mkIII have.  The instructions said to put a block 

under 
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   the outboard rib to raise it a certain distance above level.  That 

is 
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   what I did and I am happy.

 

 

 

 john h

 mkIII


	




John,



 I know it's been a while but do you have any idea how big the block 

of wood was and where exactly you were supposed to place it?

Thanks,



--------

Scott



www.ill-EagleAviation.com



do not archive





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JRatcli256(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 6:07 pm Post subject: M3X incidence & dihedral

Hi gang,

  

 Was told by Donnie at TNK - the M3x Dihedral they recommend is .6 degrees. Called today and verified.

 Don't know how that relates to the block under end rib method. I'm using a digital level.

  

 John Ratcliffe



See what's free at AOL.com. 

  [quote][b]

by0ung(at)brigham.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 7:07 pm Post subject: M3X incidence & dihedral

I went back thru all the pics I've taken of Kolbs over the years and

measured the dihedral angle were possible. I've found anywhere between zero

and 5 degrees total over the entire wing. Anything less than 1 degree per

wing half tends to look like the wingtips are drooping to me.



It seems that when building the mkIIIc  the instructions said to rig the

wings as straight as possible while making the forward and rear attach

points.   When attaching the lift struts, the wing tips were to be raised 1

1/2 inches measured at the outboard rib.   I followed the instructions and

when flying and I put the plane in a 30 deg bank and let go of the stick the

plane wanted to continue to roll...( negative roll stability)  when I

rebuilt I doubled the dihedral by raising the end rib 3 inches...   now when

in a 30 deg bank the plane wants to stay put  ( neutral roll stability).  I

could not tell any other differences.



Boyd.

icrashrc

Joined: 16 Mar 2006
Posts: 247
Location: Mishawaka, In

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 10:05 am Post subject: Re: M3X incidence & dihedral

John,



Thanks! 

BTW, 1 1/2" is .6 degrees per wing half.



Scott



[quote

Scott/Gang:



Just so happens I have a revised copy of the Kolb MKIII Builders 

Manual, 7/29/92.



"INSTALLING LIFT STRUTS.



The next step is the installation of the wing struts.  Set the wing 

dihedral by raising the wing tip 1-1/2 inches (measured at the 

outboard rib).  Install a shim under the wing at the H-supports to 

hold this position.  Now the lift struts may be made to fit."



That is verbatem out of the manual, and the distance and procedure I 

remember from doing mine in 1991.

IIRC, the Ultrastar and Firestar were set at 1", outboard rib.



Take care,



john h

mkIII[/quote]

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Scott

www.ill-EagleAviation.com

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