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Warp Drive prop inertia concerns

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jindoguy(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 10:58 am Post subject: Warp Drive prop inertia concerns

Mike, et al, Since you haven't installed your new Warp Drive prop yet, why not take an hour and test it's inertia per Rotax service information bulletin SI 11 UL 91E? It's really easy to do, all it takes is a small piece of plywood, some safety wire and a stop watch. Better to know you're within limits, than guess, eh? 

You can download SI 11 UL 91E from the Rotax owners web site.



Rick

-- 

Rick Girard

"Ya'll drop on in"

takes on a whole new meaning

when you live at the airport.  [quote][b]

John Williamson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 146
Location: Arlington, TX

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 12:02 pm Post subject: Re: Warp Drive prop inertia concerns

It took over 30 minutes to find the document you were referring to on the Rotax Owners web site.



It can't be very relevent any more since the real Rotax site doesn't carry it:

http://www.rotax-aircraft-engines.com/a_searchdoc.aspx



To make it easier for those that are interested, I have uploaded the .pdf file with this post.



It is listed as SI-11-1991 and it's old number is SI 11 UL 91 E.



I have zero concerns about running my 68 inch 3 blade Warp Drive tapered tip prop with nickel leading edges on my Rotax 912ULS. It seems to make the Kolbra perform fairly well!

11ul91.pdf

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SI-11-1991

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_________________
John Williamson
Arlington, TX

Kolbra, 912ULS, 1640 hours
http://home.tx.rr.com/kolbrapilot

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 2:19 pm Post subject: Warp Drive prop inertia concerns

| I have zero concerns about running my 68 inch 3 blade Warp Drive 

tapered tip prop with nickel leading edges on my Rotax 912ULS. It 

seems to make the Kolbra perform fairly well!

|

| --------

| John Williamson

Hi John W/Gang:



I'm not going to lose any sleep over flying Warp Drive Props with 

nickle edges either.  After 13 years and 2,500+ hours split between 

two engines, without showing any wear in either engine to either gear 

box, I have convinced myself that my 912ULS will preform as usual.



Same goes for my oil and oil filters.



I don't advise anyone to use anything I do.  Based on the type of 

flying, the places I have flown, and the places I plan to fly, I'm not 

going to use a product that I have any doubts about, any at all.



I've got antique tractors that are 71 years old that still don't know 

what an oil filter is and never will.   



Plugging along getting the mkIII flyable in some very adverse weather.



john h

mkIII

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

Roger Lee

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 3:22 pm Post subject: Re: Warp Drive prop inertia concerns

Hi John,



Were all those hours with a 68"+, nickel edged prop? I don't remember you with the nickeled edge prop.



Your engine will run just like Eric Tucker said, but if the inertia is too much it just causes premature wear. 

Tapered tips are better than square tips as they have less mass. Eric warned us away from the nickeled edged props. Too weighty at the tips for the tranny longevity.

_________________
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 3:42 pm Post subject: Warp Drive prop inertia concerns

| Were all those hours with a 68"+, nickel edged prop? I don't 

remember you with the nickeled edge prop.

 |

| --------

| Roger Lee

Hi Roger:



Don't know if you were addressing the question to John W or me.



If it was me, yes I flew all those hours with two 912's turning 70 and 

72" Warps with nickle edges.



John W flies with a 68" Warp Drive and I can not remember if he has 

nickle edges or not.



I have successfully completed Eric Tucker's 912 Course three times 

now.  I have good luck with 912's and get a lot of reliable service 

from them.



Like I said in a previous msg, I am not going to do something with my 

engine to put my life in jeopardy based on my flying style and the 

"serious" areas I fly out West, in Canada, and Alaska.



john h

mkIII

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

JetPilot

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 11:20 am Post subject: Re: Warp Drive prop inertia concerns

John W,



Why are you only running 68 inch prop ?  I would think the 70 or even 72 would perform better on a 912 ULS ...



I also have nickel leading edges on my prop also, I plan on flying through some rain, and they are needed for that, no way do I want go through trying to put and keep leading edge tape on the prop, it sounds like a real pain in the arse from what I have read about it.   I am not to worried about the inertia of the prop, there are so many warp drive props in use on 912's and it has never been an issue.   I would rather have a prop that will take some abuse and stay together than a lighter one that is in limits, and that I have to worry about comming apart.



Mike

_________________
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!

Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S

jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 12:00 pm Post subject: Warp Drive prop inertia concerns

At 12:20 PM 4/15/07 -0700, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



I would rather have a prop that will take some abuse and stay together than a lighter one that is in limits, and that I have to worry about comming apart.
	


 	  Quote: 	
		  


	


Mike,



Doesn't this void the engine warrenty?



Jack B. Hart FF004

Winchester, IN

JetPilot

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 7:58 pm Post subject: Re: Warp Drive prop inertia concerns

 	  jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne wrote: 	
		  



Mike,



Doesn't this void the engine warrenty?



Jack B. Hart FF004

Winchester, IN



	




I have not measured the inertia of the warp drive prop, nor do I know what it is.   It would be interesting to know, but I suspect it is in limits.  If not, its probably pretty close.   I would like to know the number, but in the end I am still going to use my Warp drive prop.



There are many many warp drive props running on Rotax 912's, probably more hours with the warp drive than any other type of prop with no problems reported.  What does that tell you ?   It tells me not to worry about it.



Now in a pusher configuration, there is always the possiblity of an engine part going through the prop.   Would you run a very light prop that would probably throw a blade if a muffler part went through it, ripping the engine from its mounts, just because you are worried about the engine warrenty ?   That is a very real concern, it happens.



Mike

_________________
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!

Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S

DAquaNut(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 8:56 pm Post subject: Warp Drive prop inertia concerns

In a message dated 4/15/2007 10:59:48 PM Central Standard Time, orcabonita(at)hotmail.com writes: 

 

 

 	  Quote: 	
		    Would you run a very light prop that would probably throw a blade if a muffler part went through it, ripping the engine from its mounts, just because you are worried about the engine warrenty ?   That is a very real concern, it happens. 

 

Mike 

 

	
 

            Has this senario actually happened, or,  are you just afraid it is going to happen. Is there documentation that these props  throw blades with no apparent cause?  Do you have your muffler springs safetied along with silicon in them? How about the newer clamps that replace the springs and cant break and go through the prop? 

 

       Ed Diebel          

 

**************************************

 See what's free at http://www.aol.com.  [quote][b]

JetPilot

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 7:32 am Post subject: Re: Warp Drive prop inertia concerns

Ed,



Not on a Kolb, but there are quite a history of prop blades being thrown on small experimental aircraft.  I found quite a few accidents where prop blades were thrown and the prop, or both the prop and engine was ripped from the plane.   I can not find a single fialure of the Kiev prop, but there are so few of them out there it is hard to find any information or user reports for the Kiev.   There are even fewer examples of a Kiev prop on the 912-S.    I think the Kiev prop would be great on a 2 stroke Rotax, but I dont trust it on the 912-S.



What are the new clamps you are talking about for the muffler ?   I have springs with safety wire, but I would like to see the clamps if they are better.  Can you point me in the right direction ?



Mike

_________________
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!

Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S

jstewart(at)inebraska.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 10:17 am Post subject: Warp Drive prop inertia concerns

Warp Drive props have a bat handle on the root of the blade.  No way they

can fall out.



J.D. Stewart

UltraFun AirSports, LLC

http://www.ultrafunairsports.com



Do not archive



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Ed,

 

 Not on a Kolb, but there are quite a history of prop blades 

 being thrown on small experimental aircraft.  I found quite a 

 few accidents where prop blades were thrown and the prop, or 

 both the prop and engine was ripped from the plane.   I can 

 not find a single fialure of the Kiev prop, but there are so 

 few of them out there it is hard to find any information or 

 user reports for the Kiev.   There are even fewer examples of 

 a Kiev prop on the 912-S.    I think the Kiev prop would be 

 great on a 2 stroke Rotax, but I dont trust it on the 912-S.

 

 What are the new clamps you are talking about for the muffler 

 ?   I have springs with safety wire, but I would like to see 

 the clamps if they are better.  Can you point me in the right 

 direction ?

 

 Mike

Paul Petty

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 226
Location: Mississippi

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 10:44 am Post subject: Re: Warp Drive prop inertia concerns

J.D.,



I took this from your website hope it's ok.



" LIFETIME GUARANTEE OF SATISFACTION:  We have the confidence in our propellers to include a Lifetime Guarantee of Satisfaction with each one.  If your Warp Drive Propeller is not to your liking for any reason no matter who might be responsible, and for whatever reason, we will get it right.  Warp Drive only wants happy owners."



Pretty gutsy statement from Warp Drive. 



do not archive

_________________
Paul Petty
Kolbra #12
Ms Dixie
912 UL 70" warp

jstewart(at)inebraska.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 11:07 am Post subject: Warp Drive prop inertia concerns

Daryl is one of those guys who will back up his statements, too.



J.D. 



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 J.D.,

 

 I took this from your website hope it's ok.

 

 " LIFETIME GUARANTEE OF SATISFACTION:  We have the confidence 

 in our propellers to include a Lifetime Guarantee of 

 Satisfaction with each one.  If your Warp Drive Propeller is 

 not to your liking for any reason no matter who might be 

 responsible, and for whatever reason, we will get it right.  

 Warp Drive only wants happy owners."

 

 Pretty gutsy statement from Warp Drive. 

 

 do not archive

 

 --------

 Paul Petty

 Kolbra #12

 Ms Dixie

 Final assembly!

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