gmcjetpilot
Joined: 04 Nov 2006
Posts: 170
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 Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 12:17 pm Post subject: Looking for advice (DAR IS OUT TO LUNCH, 100% WRONG) |
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HE IS 100% WRONG!
It does not matter if its a Hartzell and Lycoming or a Two by Four you
whittled out and attached to a lawn mower engine. Also the Sensenich
is AN EXPERIMENTAL PROP. This guy is OUT TO LUNCH.
First you are not getting "airworthiness" you are getting a special
airworthiness certificate for an experimental aircraft. Experimental don't
have type certificates and therefore are not subject to
Part 39 - Airworthiness directives or.......
Second the following Parts do not apply to experimentals:
Part 21 - Certification procedures for products and parts
Part 23 - Airworthiness standards: Normal, utility, acrobatic, and
commuter category airplanes
Part 33 - Airworthiness standards: Aircraft engines
Part 35 - Airworthiness standards: Propellers
Part 39 - Airworthiness directives
Part 43 - Maintenance, preventive maintenance, rebuilding, alteration
THIS IS A FACT, LEGAL FAR, FACT. IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT
HIS OPINION IS OR WHAT HE WOULD LIKE TO SEE.
YOU NEED SOME ONE TO POINT THE ABOVE OUT, THAN IT
TAKES ALL HIS ARGUMENT AWAY.
Here is the problem people have, experimental aircraft have very
few FAR's compared to a certified, type cert plane with an
airworthiness certificate. SOME FAA or DAR's with a control or
Authoritarian Complex want to impose there Opinion and control
on experimentals that DO NOT APPLY. We need to get these
GUYS out of the DAR business or educate them.
For heavens sakes DON'T GO ALONG WITH THIS! He does it once
he will want to make it LAW.
GOOGLE: Airworthiness Directives and Amateur built aircraft
or
Amateur-Built Aircraft Certification Inspection Guide[/url]
Here is a link (with lots of reference):
[url=http://www.sportair.org/articles/Rules%20&%20Regulations%20of%20Airplane%20Building.html]http://www.sportair.org/articles/Rules%20&%20Regulations%20of%20Airplane%20Building.html
Look down where is says: Maintaining Your Airplane. You will see
many refs but if this guy is going on HOW HE THINKS IT SHOULD
be and LAW (FAR's) you are SOL. You will have to go to his
supervisor or District Maintenance Chief. HOW THEY SEND THESE
GUYS OUT WITH NO TRAINING AMAZES ME
If he does not believe you, have him call FAA legal department. My
Friend get into his face and say NO. Have him prove it. He is making
it up.
There is confusion from some old advisory circulars (AC) that where
published in the 1970's, but they are wrong. This is where the FAA
is not consistent.
HE IS WRONG WRONG WRONG. You don't need an A&P to work on
an amateur build experimental. Part 43 does not apply to experimentals.
Even more controversial is you don't need to comply to AD's on certified
parts, however its common wisdom and sense that its a very good idea.
As the builder you can make the choice to comply or not. Most agree
compiling is good. However when a Prop or Engine is mounted on an
experimental ITS NO LONGER A CERTIFIED PART. Its only certified
when its in that aircraft it was certified in. There are no REAL certified
prop/engines in experimentals for the purpose of maintenance, mod or
AD compliance. This approved combo is only for the 25 to 40 Phase I
period. Its totally different. Besides look at Van's catalog or call
Sensenich, its an experimental PROP they happens to be designed for
RV's with Lycs. However every installation is different and experimental.
Also the Sensenich prop and Lyc IS NOT A Certified Type Approved
combination. The Sensenich is an Experimental prop. Here is the deal
even if it was approved say in a piper or cessna, when its put into an
experimental the installation is not longer a TYPE Certificated
installation.
Here is the thing this guy needs to wrap is brain around, Experimentals
have almost a BLANK CHECK on what you do to it and who works on it.
The only real limit is the annual condition inspection, must be done by a
repairman for the plane or an A&P. However if you bought a second hand
Experimental the new owner can DO WHAT EVER HE WANTS,
maintenance and modification. Again however than he or she would need
to get a condition Inspection signed off. If the A&P does not want to sign
it off that is their choice.
Here is something I wrote about PROP AD's on a Hartzell.
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showpost.php?p=118022&postcount=12
If you are a member go to on the EAA web site or call the legal dept on
Monday. If you are a member it has lots of info and "controversial" debates
that the EAA legal department has worked out and the FAA is an
agreement.
Many DAR's sometimes work on their own personal preference or opinion
and not the law.
This GUY is WRONG WRONG WRONG. You do not have to maintain it to
TYPE CERT standards. I WOULD GET A DAR THAT KNOWS WHAT HE
IS DOING.
Good Luck but this GUY is OFF base. He is there just to sign off the paper
work not verify airworthiness. Now if he thinks something is not safe than
he can refuse. However the part about A&P's, STC and all that is 100%
wrong.
HERE IS WHAT YOU CAN DO:
-Get a EAA Technical Counselor
-He is going to need to be educated. HE IS NOT GOING TO LISTEN TO
YOU. You will have to get a knowledgeable FAA person to intercede.
-You can go over his head or call FAA in OK and talk to the FAA.
-I WOULD CALL EAA and IF NOT A MEMBER JOIN. They do more for
us, experimental builders/pilots than AOPA or any other group.
email me if you want more info. gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com (gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com)
It does not matter if you get into a pissing match, HE IS 100% WRONG!
Stand up to the government, don't be afraid. You will get it signed off and
YOU DON'T NEED AN A&P signature ANYWHERE.
George ATP,CFI-II-ME
>From: "Dan Ross" <dcr(at)fdltownhomes.com (dcr(at)fdltownhomes.com)>
| Quote: | Subject: Looking for advice
Guys:
I'm going through the airworthiness inspection by the local FSDO. The
guy is coming next Monday at 0900 to complete the inspection and
paperwork. He happened by yesterday because he was in the area and
had some time. He did most of the inspection and said to put if back together
and be ready to run the engine on Monday. He has since called and said I
needed an A&P sign off for installing the Sensenich propeller on the
Lycoming (certified) engine.
He called again and said that because the engine is certified, it would
have to be maintained as a certified engine by an A&P and only certified
parts or STC ed parts could be installed. I suspect this guy is more airline
knowledgeable than experimental. BTW, he is a nice guy. My question
is:
does anyone know any FAA regs or materials I can gently suggest this
guy to reference? Please, ranting and ravings about the FAA won't help me,
just references/suggestions to help educate this guy. I have more to lose
if weget into a pissing contest. Thanks in advance. Dan
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