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Metallic wingtip paint & VOR signal strength?

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k5wiv(at)amsat.org
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 3:01 am Post subject: Metallic wingtip paint & VOR signal strength?

YES!



But I won't attempt to guess how much.  It will depend on the exact

composition of the paint, the thickness of the application, how well bonded

to the airplane structure, etc.  It could range from a barely detectable

effect to no signal received.



Jack Sargeant

1127 Patricia St.

Wichita, KS 67208-2642

316/683-5268

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carl.froehlich(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 3:22 am Post subject: Metallic wingtip paint & VOR signal strength?

Not sure how much metal is in metallic paint.  When I painted my plane, the

"metallic" additive to the paint mix was not metal.



Try it and see.  I would guess you would not be able to measure the

difference in performance.  I have a homemade wingtip comm. antenna and it

works fine.  It is not as good as the belly bent whip comm antenna, but good

enough for a backup comm and fine for as a primary VOR antenna.



Carl Froehlich

RV-8A (325 hrs)



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jesse(at)saintaviation.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 5:43 am Post subject: Metallic wingtip paint & VOR signal strength?

I don't know the difference between a metallic paint and a pearled paint,

but we have noticed no lack of signal strength in the planes that have been

painted with a pearled paint on the wingtips.  We haven't actually compared

the distance that a signal is received from, but it is certainly not a

noticeable difference.



Do not archive.



Jesse Saint

Saint Aviation, Inc.

jesse(at)saintaviation.com

www.saintaviation.com

Cell: 352-427-0285

Fax: 815-377-3694



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AV8ORJWC

Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 7:17 am Post subject: Metallic wingtip paint & VOR signal strength?

YES.



John Cox



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rvbuilder(at)sausen.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 7:42 am Post subject: Metallic wingtip paint & VOR signal strength?

That has got to be the shortest answer I have ever seen from John!  You feeling ok?   Got me a little worried!  



Do not archive



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AV8ORJWC

Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 4:59 pm Post subject: Metallic wingtip paint & VOR signal strength?

I am suffering from "Echo Bruises".  Ever heard a never-ending echo

until the Doppler effect reminds you it is the same chatter just

rehashed and will eventually subside with time.



Oh, how I long for effective archives.



Over?   I mean Aye?



Okay... What are "Echo Bruises"? They are the phenomena that good

instructors and great pilot examiner experiences when after a few years,

a new applicant for instructor sends a student who then becomes a second

generation student (pursuing instructor) who then sends you a third

generation applicant some time later.  The individual from the third

generation uses the exact same answer to same or similar question from

three generations or more prior.  Very little learning took place,

everything was rote learning. Bad habits are reinforced and worse with

each generation of new applicant you think you are losing it (Your

mind).  The examiner has to go back to work with new questions or learn

to adapt the review during licensing to a higher level of learning.  You

conclude it was poor examination technique from the Examiner (yourself)

with both the first and second generation check ride which led to the

ROTE student applicants.



If each student would regularly question (that's healthy), find their

answer from two separate qualified sources and then understand the

underlying principles - their learning would become invaluable for their

entire lifetime. Hence, safer pilots, safer planes and lower rates for

"Builder Interruptus types".  Each generation would move farther down

the path towards true wisdom.  This is no reflection on builders in the

#500 or #600 series.  I was just feeling familiar bruises from

conversations Long Ago as a pilot examiner.  Attorneys advise... Just

give a YES or a NO and don't expound.



Few here want extemporaneous discussion.  Now on to my typical rant.

Metallic additive in lacquer, enamel and poly paint is aluminum flake,

it comes in various sizes.  Aluminum is a metallic material. Metallic

materials do not improve RF signal propagation except in the ground

plane. In pearl, it is another beast altogether.  Carbon fiber in either

canopy construction, wingtips or fairings impedes RF signal propagation.

Metallic paint or a poor ground plane do the same things - negatively

influence the signal.



Now Mr. Sausen are you all happy?  I am dreaming of OSH and those cold

beers I owe to last year's group.



Mr. Wellenzohn, your question is excellent and should not discourage the

use of metallics, something that was done to a close friend down in

Phoenix.  Just properly tackle RF signal propagation techniques.

Kitplanes (the mag) has done some good work on the subject and it is

available in their archives.  Most builders couldn't even explain how

their ELT antennae will work in a typical crash. Now is that learning?



John #600



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rvbuilder(at)sausen.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 5:58 pm Post subject: Metallic wingtip paint & VOR signal strength?

As expected you have met and exceeded my expectations!  Only a couple months to go, see you then.



Michael

Do not archive



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jesse(at)saintaviation.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 5:59 pm Post subject: Metallic wingtip paint & VOR signal strength?

Aaaaah, he's back....  Welcome back, John.  The list has been so (read easy to understand/follow) without you.



Do not archive



Jesse Saint

Saint Aviation, Inc.

jesse(at)saintaviation.com

352-427-0285



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Mike Whisky

Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 336
Location: Switzerland

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 2:52 am Post subject: Re: Metallic wingtip paint & VOR signal strength?

Wow, thanks for all your replys. Lets see if I can get the KITPLANE magazine here in CH.



Best Regards from Switzerland



Michael (who has quit his job to go full time building)



http://www.wellenzohn.net

_________________
RV-10 builder (flying)
#511

rvbuilder(at)sausen.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:18 am Post subject: Metallic wingtip paint & VOR signal strength?

Darn it John, use small words and keep it monosyllabic for Jesse would ya.  HA!



Do not archive



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AV8ORJWC

Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 6:51 am Post subject: Metallic wingtip paint & VOR signal strength?

They have an excellent website.  The subscription is probably better

than an electronic version but you will have to ask others.



Occasionally the topics are a little off the mark but most of the

articles will hit a "Wow that was a great article this edition".



John



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