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Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 5:20 am Post subject: My "Florida" trip...off topic

Hi Dave-

Not getting the WX brief was the first mistake, flying with someone  

who I thought was more experienced and therefore following his "lead"  

was the second. I should have called on my own before I ever left the  

house. I've done this before though and found the conditions way  

worse than what I was told. Third mistake was not getting a brief  

while we were at Sporty's for the next leg of the trip. The other guy  

was too cocky, and I was too shy to push for the info...after all (I  

said to myself) "this is just another VFR flight"...yeah, RIGHT!



The mic fright is pretty well a thing of the past now that I've had  

to make a few calls, and done some listening over the past few days.

I'm gonna talk to my instructor today about those 9k slips in  

turbulent conditions, or just slips in general, and under what  

conditions they are useable. We are going over to rescue a plane that  

got away from the pilot during hand propping and climbed a gas pump  

at a nearby airport, so I'll have some time to pick his brain while  

we're together.



Lynn (thanks again for the DVD)



do not archive



On Apr 23, 2007, at 6:50 AM, <davef(at)cfisher.com> <davef(at)cfisher.com>  

wrote:



[quote] 



 Lynn, Good write up about your trip.



 Did you know what was past that bank of clouds ?

 Wx brief #1 --  then in flight you have to talk to flight sevice to  

 get WX ahead .

 Mic Fright ?  Well you should not be planning long X countries  

 without being fully trained and comfortable with radio.



 Another thing is Slips from 9k or what ever altitude. Well if you  

 are flying over top and have to find a hole to come down through  

 you should be able to make rapid decents in tight areas to be abel  

 to do this.

 Just my thoughts,  Good report and good learning experience for  

 everyone.

 Dave

 ---

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

kitfoxmike

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 373

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 6:36 am Post subject: Re: My

Lynn,

Quit the trip.  I understand that you are sport pilot.  Now my question is how many endorsements do you have, I'm sure you have a tail wheel.  But sport pilot in 25 hrs(by the book) means that you are left out of much of the training that a PPL gets.  My advice before you head out on a trip of this magnitude again, is to get more taining and the endorsements that will put you up to speed to the PPL. That way you don't have to rely on some other pilot to make decisions for your flight, you can always fall back on what YOU know.



Now I'm very good in controlled airspace, so much that I don't think about it when I talk to ATC.  Now last night, I went through controlled C airspace and flew to an airport that was uncontrolled, talk about being tongue tied.  My goodness, I was scrabling for what to say, of course this was a new airport for me, and everything from the pattern to the approach was different, so I was flutering all over the place, of course I made it down ok.  But, the ol' trainging days quickly came back and I fell into the right talk and procedures real quick.   Ya, ya, I go into uncontrolled feilds all the time, but those are automatic, I know the procedures, the calls are second nature, but when you get into an area, or airport you are not familiar with, the fluster comes right in, and the only thing that gets you out of it is the training that you had in the normal procedures.



Oh! one last thing, get a hand held radio and go to a busy airport and dial in and listen, you learn a bunch.



Hope this helps.

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 3:48 pm Post subject: My "Florida" trip...off topic

I've got the suggested hand-held radio, and went to a local D  

airport, and for 45 minutes there was no traffic to listen to. That  

was last year, during my training for SP. Yes I have the tailwheel  

endorsement, presolo aeronautical knowledge endorsement, and all the  

other pertinent endorsements that allowed me to do my solo takeoffs  

and landings (within 25 miles, within 50 miles), initial solo x-- 

country, each solo x-country, repeated solo x-country.  I now have  

190 hours solo, 90 dual, about 600 takeoffs and landings, flown with  

skis, landed and taken off at Oshkosh, flew through a couple of Class  

D airports, making my own calls, monitored towered airports as I flew  

outside their airspace, don't get tongue-tied when I make my  

uncontrolled field calls...pretty much everything but getting the  

endorsement, which will come this week. My instructor told me today  

that we will go to Class D JXN, and make sure that I can do it and he  

will sign me off.



I'm not sure what other endorsements I would need to get me "up to  

speed to the PPL"  High performance airplane? Hardly. Private pilot  

aeronautical? My instructor says I came in with more aeronautical  

knowledge than anyone he has taught (19,000 hours in his log book).  

No, I haven't been under the hood yet, but I'd like to.



As to the 25 hours that a Sport Pilot needs, very few ever get by  

with just 25 hours training, like a PP seldom ever gets "it" in 40.  

I've got more and better training in my spread-out 90 than a lot of  

the PPL's that I've come across...like the PPL that I flew behind  

during this recent trip. Those guys got theirs years ago, and some  

need to get refreshed.

My previous 90 hours of dual were spread over a two-year period,  

hence the flatter learning curve, and some of these hours were at the  

"we'll take your money and teach you r-e-a-l  s-l-o-w so as to get  

more of that money" training schools, during which radio work was  

handled by the instructor. The rest of the 90 hours were at untowered  

airports, where I made my own "self-announce" calls.



I'm not sure I understand your comment "quit the trip". If it means  

"turn the page", "enough already", "shut the hell up", fine, I'm cool  

with that. But if others are willing to make suggestions, I'm going  

to respond in kind and thank them for their input, because I really  

appreciate it. And the topic is clearly entitled "off topic" and  

therefore can be easily deleted by those who are sick of hearing  

about it. Or maybe your comment was meant to read "quite the trip" in  

which case, I'd have to say yes it was, and I learned a lot.



Lynn

do not archive

On Apr 23, 2007, at 10:36 AM, kitfoxmike wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <customtrans(at)qwest.net>



 Lynn,

 Quit the trip.  I understand that you are sport pilot.  Now my  

 question is how many endorsements do you have, I'm sure you have a  

 tail wheel.  But sport pilot in 25 hrs(by the book) means that you  

 are left out of much of the training that a PPL gets.  My advice  

 before you head out on a trip of this magnitude again, is to get  

 more taining and the endorsements that will put you up to speed to  

 the PPL. That way you don't have to rely on some other pilot to  

 make decisions for your flight, you can always fall back on what  

 YOU know.



 Now I'm very good in controlled airspace, so much that I don't  

 think about it when I talk to ATC.  Now last night, I went through  

 controlled C airspace and flew to an airport that was uncontrolled,  

 talk about being tongue tied.  My goodness, I was scrabling for  

 what to say, of course this was a new airport for me, and  

 everything from the pattern to the approach was different, so I was  

 flutering all over the place, of course I made it down ok.  But,  

 the ol' trainging days quickly came back and I fell into the right  

 talk and procedures real quick.   Ya, ya, I go into uncontrolled  

 feilds all the time, but those are automatic, I know the  

 procedures, the calls are second nature, but when you get into an  

 area, or airport you are not familiar with, the fluster comes right  

 in, and the only thing that gets you out of it is the training that  

 you had in the normal procedures.



 Oh! one last thing, get a hand held radio and go to a busy airport  

 and dial in and listen, you learn a bunch.



 Hope this helps.



 --------

 kitfoxmike

 model IV, 1200

 speedster

 912ul

 Do not archive





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=108631#108631

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

kitfoxmike

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 373

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 4:43 pm Post subject: Re: My

Sorry lynn, 

forgot the e.  quite the trip.  A real hair raiser.    What I meant by the 25 hrs sport pilot is just that, for the innitial sport pilot requirements there isn't much in it.  When I did my PPL I learned in Class C.  I always flew when the traffic was at it's worse, the radio was hard to do, in fact when I fly class C I concider the radio half the battle.  I know people that got their PPL and know half what I learned. Sounds like this latest trip really pushed you closer to knowing what you are doing and the heck with everybody else.  After all that's what PIC is all about, you are the one that makes the call.

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 5:18 pm Post subject: My "Florida" trip...off topic

I was at the hangar working one day when I heard a Cuban airliner arrive

into Gander Airspace.  With his incredibly broken English he made his

intention to land for fuel known.  The FSS guy in the tower asked if he had

a transponder on board.  



The answer was," No transponder, Farm equipment only!"



Gander has a Seaplane base a stones throw from the end of 31...

Interestingly enough called "Deadmans Pond"  This is the airspace which I

occasionally fly into in my Kitfox  Keeping your eyes open and the radio

tuned to ATC is a definite requirement in that location!



Noel



[quote] --

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 9:00 pm Post subject: My "Florida" trip...off topic

Sorry I got a bit testy, Mike. I've had a bit of a day helping drag  

an Aeronca Champ off a fuel pump at the airstrip where I got some  

instruction. We had to drag the plane off the flattened  pump, put it  

inside the hangar and dismantle the wings for trailering it home. If  

course we first had to wait for the FAA boys to come and give it  

their blessing before we could touch it. The pilot had hand propped  

it and had the throttle set too high, it fired, and started dragging  

him around in a circle, ran over him breaking his wrist, and ended up  

against a hangar with collapsed gear and bent prop. All day all I  

could think of was having to do that with my baby down in Tennessee,  

probably because the wind was blowing here just like down there all day.



I think the problem with instruction today is that the hours really  

don't mean anything if all the bases haven't been covered. I have had  

11 instructors in the 3 flight schools (and 2 private instructors)  

that I have attended. And the last instructor, a private one, taught  

me more than the others combined. He said the others only made my  

feet lazy. Of course that's because he was teaching me in my Kitfox,  

and all the others except for the J4 and Cessna 180 guys ( a total of  

5 hours) were nosewheel people. It seems to me that there is no  

actual curriculum, and the instructors teach what they know best, or  

favor that topic. That's been my findings around here (Lower Michigan  

and down at St. Charles, MO). It's probably different at other  

locations.



Lynn

Kitfox IV Speedster...Jabiru 2200

do not archive



On Apr 23, 2007, at 8:43 PM, kitfoxmike wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <customtrans(at)qwest.net>



 Sorry lynn,

 forgot the e.  quite the trip.  A real hair raiser.    What I meant  

 by the 25 hrs sport pilot is just that, for the innitial sport  

 pilot requirements there isn't much in it.  When I did my PPL I  

 learned in Class C.  I always flew when the traffic was at it's  

 worse, the radio was hard to do, in fact when I fly class C I  

 concider the radio half the battle.  I know people that got their  

 PPL and know half what I learned. Sounds like this latest trip  

 really pushed you closer to knowing what you are doing and the heck  

 with everybody else.  After all that's what PIC is all about, you  

 are the one that makes the call.



 --------

 kitfoxmike

 model IV, 1200

 speedster

 912ul

 Do not archive

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

kitfoxmike

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 373

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 6:02 am Post subject: Re: My

I went through 3 instructors myself, with the last one of course being the best. He was not very old, supprisingly. But, I remember one flight, it was for night cross country, he handed me a little flash light and he had one for himself, he came out and said that he wanted me to fly a little hood time, OK, whatever, and he gave me different vectors to fly, at the time we were about 45 miles out.  Then he said take the hood off and as soon as I did that, he reached over and turned all power off.  What an experience, we were also in an area where there where no lights on the ground, good and dark.  Then he said take us home.  Yup, we made it.  I happened to remember the heading we were on before all happened, that got me close.



What you said about the guy proping his engine had to be a sight, going around in circles draging him.  Hum, I bet he felt good and stupid.  I read somewhere that it is a 180 day suppension for hand proping without the plane properly tide down.  I think the FAA will be after him for that one.

wingnut

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 356

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 6:58 am Post subject: Re: My

Lynn, I just wanted to add that I think you're doing fine. You realized your mistake, you got the plane down safely in a bad situation and you prepaired better for your next flight. Now you're a better pilot for the experience. I hope that when I make my first mistake that I will handle it as well.



Luis,

do not archive

davef(at)cfisher.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 7:14 am Post subject: My "Florida" trip...off topic

Heck --well said.



I have talked to Lynn a few times and he is a real kitfox junkie  like a few 

others I know - myself included  that log 150 to 250  Kitfox hours a year at 

least.



Real time training sure helps and X country time sure helps. If anyone is 

interested I would suggest to get a wide range of flying done and include 

everything possible.

Dave

---

xfire

Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 16

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 8:22 am Post subject: Re: My

I too went though many instructors in my initial training then for Instument training. All but one were by the book flight school goobers.  I had one who said, I know who you are, who your flying buddies are and the type of flying you will be doing, the FAA says I have to teach you blah blah blah, I say horse s_ _t, I will teach you what you need to stay alive and keep the plane in as large of a piece as possible.  We need more of those kind of guys.



Sounds like you learned a very valuble lesson and are headed in the right direction to avoid it again.

kitfoxmike

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 373

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 9:28 am Post subject: Re: My

I'm one of those guys that fly a bunch every year.  Last year I hit over 250 hrs.  This year so far I've got 105 flights and 939 landings(touch goes), I remember my flight training like it was yesterday, a whole lot of fun.  I remember one instructor that was teaching me, he did the classic power off practice for engine out.  Being in the boonies and finding a nice area I went down for simulated landing, the instructor called go around. I did, I went around this tree, that tree, needless to say he turned white and started screeming go around, I said, I am, this tree and that tree.  I gave up and pulled up and resumed the flight, sure scared the s_ _ t out of him.

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 1:24 pm Post subject: My "Florida" trip...off topic

Surprisingly enough, they came, spent about an hour with him, taking  

down all sorts of notes, then made a call to the NTSB who released  

the plane to him. I was told that when the "incident" (FAA's  

description) happened, the NTSB "owned" the plane, and when all the  

facts were recorded, it was then given back to him. I may not have  

this correct in the words used, but essentially that's the chain of  

command. Also, the day that the incident happened, the local police  

came out and administered a breath test...he passed...told me later  

he hadn't had a drink in several days. Like you said though, Mike, he  

probably hasn't heard the last of it from the FAA.



I've got to ask my flight instructor to clarify this but it's my  

understanding that on this plane (Aeronca Champ) you can apply the  

brakes and wedge a block somewhere to hold the brakes on. I only  

caught part of the conversation, and don't know whether he did this  

or if it was just a good idea. It's possible that he did this and one  

brake did not hold as well.

A point of interest to me was that my flight instructor (Brian) who  

was heading up the "rescue mission" had us pop the cowls and remove  

all the spark plug wires before doing anything else. I was at his  

place and we loaded up tools, wing racks, old sofa cushions, a large  

bucket of straps, extra phillips screwdrivers (for insertion into the  

removed bolt holes), and a friend with a flatbed trailer pulled in,  

and off we went. We left at noon and were back at 5:30 pm, with about  

an hour trip each way. There were 5 of us working, and we got the  

thing de-winged, loaded up, back to the pilot's hangar and  

downloaded...everybody pitched in and the job went really fast. Brian  

had brought along an extra landing gear, and we installed that with  

hardware bolts for the journey home aboard the flatbed. He had  

thought of everything. I asked him how many times this scenario had  

played out in his lifetime (53 yrs), and he couldn't put a number on  

it. He's been at this flying thing since being a teenager hanging  

around B.D. Maule's factory near here in Napoleon, Michigan. (Now  

Moultrie, GA) Brian has seen it all, and told me "Your time's comin'  

ya know" I didn't want to hear that, and will do my best to prove him  

wrong...having to have my plane hauled back on a trailer, that is.



Lynn

do not archive



On Apr 24, 2007, at 10:02 AM, kitfoxmike wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <customtrans(at)qwest.net>



 I went through 3 instructors myself, with the last one of course  

 being the best. He was not very old, supprisingly. But, I remember  

 one flight, it was for night cross country, he handed me a little  

 flash light and he had one for himself, he came out and said that  

 he wanted me to fly a little hood time, OK, whatever, and he gave  

 me different vectors to fly, at the time we were about 45 miles  

 out.  Then he said take the hood off and as soon as I did that, he  

 reached over and turned all power off.  What an experience, we were  

 also in an area where there where no lights on the ground, good and  

 dark.  Then he said take us home.  Yup, we made it.  I happened to  

 remember the heading we were on before all happened, that got me  

 close.



 What you said about the guy proping his engine had to be a sight,  

 going around in circles draging him.  Hum, I bet he felt good and  

 stupid.  I read somewhere that it is a 180 day suppension for hand  

 proping without the plane properly tide down.  I think the FAA will  

 be after him for that one.



 --------

 kitfoxmike

 model IV, 1200

 speedster

 912ul

 Do not archive





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=108887#108887

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Bob

Joined: 24 Oct 2006
Posts: 89
Location: Damascus, Maryland, USA

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 1:27 pm Post subject: Re: My

Lynn - If you didn't get hurt, bent the plane, get lost, or violated, got all the way to KY and home, went through the windstorm, I'll echo Luis in a big congratulations.  Within the bounds of always having a place to land, it's like McBean writes...It's not about how fast, it's about how fun!

Bob

ps- With respect to having trouble fnding an instructor, put it in this context:  I dated a lot before finding a wife.   

do not archive.

_________________
Remember that internet advice may only be worth what you pay.

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 2:00 pm Post subject: My "Florida" trip...off topic

Thanks, Bob...I failed to mention that during the return trip we  

stopped in Defiance, Ohio to get my buddy's x-ponder fixed, and I saw  

a sticker that said "God is my co-pilot", and I bought it. Probably a  

good sentiment, besides, I've read the book by Robert L. Scott,  

wasn't it? Flying Tigers....



I finally found the ideal instructor...one who loved my plane so much  

after he test flew it, that he taught me how to fly it so I wouldn't  

wad it up...payback will come someday, as I've been elected to paint  

his tractor in trade for the flight lessons.

p.s. I've had nearly as many wives as instructors....but this one I'm  

not "divorcing"  (p.s. in this case means "pre script) : )



Lynn

do not archive

On Apr 24, 2007, at 5:27 PM, Bob wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Lynn - If you didn't get hurt, bent the plane, get lost, or  

 violated, got all the way to KY and home, went through the  

 windstorm, I'll echo Luis in a big congratulations.  Within the  

 bounds of always having a place to land, it's like McBean  

 writes...It's not about how fast, it's about how fun!

 Bob

 ps- With respect to having trouble fnding an instructor, put it in  

 this context:  I dated a lot before finding a wife.   

 do not archive.



 --------

 Remember that internet advice may only be worth what you pay.





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=109005#109005

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

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