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Irons for covering

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kitfox555(at)sbcglobal.ne
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 6:20 pm Post subject: Irons for covering

I'm in the covering stage on my kitfox 2 with the Stitts Dacron 1.7 oz. and I'm having trouble finding the right Iron, the first one only went up to 325 took it back    the next one  a black and Decker  goes from 223 to 253  and 331 to 355 at one setting is there a good one out there I can calibrate closer or is it necessary  I have a digital deep fryer thermometer seem to be accurate in boiling water. Anyone know?



Jerry Evans 

kitfox 555 [quote][b]

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 8:32 pm Post subject: Irons for covering

I got my iron information from Jim Miller at Aircraft Technical  

Support, in Columbus, Ohio, a Polyfiber dealer, and EAA workshop  

presenter. Their number is 1-877-877-3334. I can't recall what Jim  

told me about the model numbers of the various Black and Decker  

irons, but the one I got fit within the models he suggested. It is  

Model S220. He said not to get the automatic temperature controlled  

models. Get the cheaper manual control models. Yes, calibration is  

necessary. I spent about three hours calibrating mine. The  

temperature will go up to a certain point and then drop. I used the  

mercury (I think) thermometer that Polyfiber sells for about $12, but  

also used a digital thermometer in conjunction with the mercury  

thermometer. Both were imbedded into a blob of Silicone Heat Sink  

Compound on the base of the iron. I won't go into the whole  

calibrating process, but I watched the digital numbers go up to a  

certain point, wrote them down, and watched as the numbers dropped  

and recorded the lowest number. I did this through 5 cycles of the  

iron's temperature fluctuations, and averaged the readings, then  

called that number the for that particular setting. I had previously  

made 11 marks around the temperature control dial. I did this  

watching of each rise and fall of temperatures for each of the 11  

positions of control setting, until I had 11 heat ranges for my iron.  

(imagine how upset I was when one iron went belly up and I had to buy  

another and do it all over again) I now had 11 choices for setting  

the heats: my 11 different choices were: 215, 222, 228, 230,238, 256,  

266, 290, 312, 337, and 358.

You mentioned one went up to only 325...that would have been enough,  

I think. I seem to recall I only had to go to 312 for complete  

tightening. Jim told me the more recent irons just don't hold temps  

all that accurately. You have to realize that there will be a range  

of temps that the iron will fluctuate around, and do your work around  

these ranges. As I recall, the Kitfox manual says to stop tightening  

when the structure starts to distort...and it will, especially the  

fuselage longerons. Have you got the Polyfiber covering manual? If  

not, get it. Jim will answer any and all questions. He and wife Dondi  

are valuable assets to the homebuilding community, and are glad to help.



Lynn

Kitfox IV Speedster...Jabiru 2200



On Apr 23, 2007, at 10:15 PM, jerry evans wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   I'm in the covering stage on my kitfox 2 with the Stitts Dacron 1.7  

 oz. and I'm having trouble finding the right Iron, the first one  

 only went up to 325 took it back    the next one  a black and  

 Decker  goes from 223 to 253  and 331 to 355 at one setting is  

 there a good one out there I can calibrate closer or is it  

 necessary  I have a digital deep fryer thermometer seem to be  

 accurate in boiling water. Anyone know?



 Jerry Evans

 kitfox 555 _- 

 www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List _- 

 ============================================================

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

xfire

Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 16

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 8:11 am Post subject: Re: Irons for covering

I would be VERY careful.  I had to recover the rudder and elevator due to trying to bring it up to the full 350.  If you read the manual (for stits covering), it states that you should not go over 250 on the wing or you will pull the fabric off the undercamber.  The tubes in the KF are much smaller than most "certified" aircraft and you will buckle them if you try for the full tension.  About 275 was the most I could go before the tubes started to pull in.

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 2:43 pm Post subject: Irons for covering

The Iron I use is a  Proctor Silex.  I can get a pretty accurate 350F with it.  I don't use  a thermometer.  They can be hard to calibrate.  Even testing using  boiling water is not as reliable as you may expect.  Water seldom, if ever,  boils at 212F.  Altitude and low pressure areas can have a pretty good boil  going on at temperatures below 180F or as high as 220F.  They say you can't  cook an egg or make a good cup of tea in the Rockies for that reason.   

  

 I think if I was to use a  thermometer I would use a glass candy thermometer.  The accuracy of these  thermometers should be very high.  Remember to cushion the thermometer  in several layers of newsprint paper... After all they are glass.  The down  side is it will take several minutes to make a reading and then you will want to  calibrate your iron to make resets a bit faster.

  

 I don't use a thermometer.   I use a special wax sticks.  A throw back to then I used to set  the thermal back printing decks on photo paper processors.  There are  several wax sticks which melt at various exact temperatures and the ones  marked 300F and 350F get regular usage.  Once the 300 wax stick melts and  the 350F stick barely melts I'm there.  The melted wax wipes off easily,  makes checking the temp easy and as a bonus the wax cleans the face of the  iron.  I can even tell the hot and cool parts of the iron's  surface.

  

 I am, however, wondering if any  one is using a laser thermometer and if so how is the accuracy.  I think  that may be an accurate alternative to the old candy  thermometer.

  

 

Noel [quote]   

   --

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

dan(at)azshowersolutions.
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:04 pm Post subject: Irons for covering

One thing I have found that will vary temp settings is the extension chord used. You should use the same chord that you calibrated with. I tried using a 50' chord after I calibrated with a 25'...it was off a bit. Also, pay attention to other devices that are being used on the same circuit. If the radio was on and a drop light was being used when you calibrate...yup...better turn em on when you use the iron on your plane. FWIW

  Dan Billingsley

  Mesa, AZ

  N314DW / KF-IV / 912S    still building  http://www.azshowersolutions.com/Kitfox1.html



Noel Loveys <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca> wrote:

  [quote]    The Iron I use is  a Proctor Silex.  I can get a pretty accurate 350F with it.  I don't use a thermometer.  They can be hard to calibrate.  Even testing using boiling water is not as reliable as you may expect.  Water seldom, if ever, boils at 212F.  Altitude and low pressure areas can have a pretty good boil going on at temperatures below 180F or as high as 220F.  They say you can't cook an egg or make a good cup of tea in the Rockies for that reason.  

   

  I think if I was to use a thermometer I would use a glass candy thermometer.  The accuracy of these thermometers should be very high.  Remember to cushion the thermometer in several layers of newsprint paper... After all they are glass.  The down side is it will take several minutes to make a reading and then you will want to calibrate  your iron to make resets a bit faster.

   

  I don't use a thermometer.  I use a special wax sticks.  A throw back to then I used to set the thermal back printing decks on photo paper processors.  There are several wax sticks which melt at various exact temperatures and the ones marked 300F and 350F get regular usage.  Once the 300 wax stick melts and the 350F stick barely melts I'm there.  The melted wax wipes off easily, makes checking the temp easy and as a bonus the wax cleans the face of the iron.  I can even tell the hot and cool parts of the iron's surface.

   

  I am, however, wondering if any one is using a laser thermometer and if so how is  the accuracy.  I think that may be an accurate alternative to the old candy thermometer.

   

  Noel

  [quote]  

  --

lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 8:07 pm Post subject: Irons for covering

Noel,  I just ordered an infrared thermometer and it claims 1% accuracy.  It 

is a recognized mane brand unit and think the claims are valid.



Your mention of the temps you test for makes me wonder if you have seen the 

Poly Fiber manual.  It recommends calibrating at 200°, 225°,250° and 350°. 

There are procedures at each of these temps in the covering process.  My 912 

manual calls for a maximum shrink temp of 300°, this, I understand is due to 

the light weight structure that can deform with the 350° max Polyfiber 

recommends.



I understand the wax concept as it is similar to the cones that jewelry 

manufacturers use to calibrate their furnaces, but I would be a bit 

concerned about wax residue on the fabric.  It could cause fish eye in the 

final finish.



Lowell



---

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 4:13 am Post subject: Irons for covering

Thanks Lowell



I've never had a problem with the cloth pulling too tight Except once when I

used a fairly heavy cloth on a rudder...I cant remember the weight off hand.

The wax is so easy to wipe off the face of the iron there is no residue

left.  I do have to be careful not to allow it to get into the steam vents

though.



Fish eye has never been a problem with any of the finishes I've used.  What

is a problem here though is our damp climate.  You have to wait for a warm

dry day for a lot of the finishes or you will get blushing.  A good cold

winter day with a hot wood fire also works but you are up all night keeping

the fire burning.



Noel Loveys, RPP 

Campbellton, Newfoundland, Canada

Kitfox Mod III-A, 582, B box, Ivo IFA

Aerocet 1100s

noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca

 

[quote] --

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

occom

Joined: 26 Aug 2006
Posts: 404

Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 2:18 pm Post subject: Irons for covering

I have a Black and Decker iron I stole from the missus. (she bought a new 

one). I have an infrared thermometer and one of the open coil coverite ones 

and a glass thermometer from way back in the days of prohibition, They all 

read roughly the same. The iron drifts up and down about 10 deg.



Do not archive

smokey_bear_40220(at)yaho
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 6:36 pm Post subject: Irons for covering

After fooling with 2 irons for a bit, I bought a hobby

shop tacking iron that guarantees within 3% accuracy. 

It was about $30 and has lights on it that tell you

when it is up to temperature and flash if it falls out

of the 3% range.  I found it quite accurate, but you

must go slowly, or it will not be able to keep up the

heat.  Great in the corners though.



I used this almost entirely using N-S-E-W passes to

ensure even temps.  One day I caught the cord and

knocked it down.  When I plugged it in to begin work,

the thing melted down!  It worked fine on planes but

wasn´t up to being Marined.....  Breaking things is

part of a Marine´s job after all.



Kurt Schrader

S'5 NSI turbo and CAP 140 prop

Florida and Panama City Panama



Shameless ad, trying to develop an airport reirement

community down here in Panama.....



__________________________________________________

dpremgood(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 6:38 pm Post subject: Irons for covering

Jerry, I used a Black and Decker household iron (I forget the model 

No.) with a manual thermostat.



I bought a 'MiniTemp' infrared temperature sensor to calibrate the 

iron.

The beauty of this thing is that it takes a second to see what the 

temperature of the iron is. One can also see the temperature variation 

in the iron instantaneously.



I strongly suggest reading the Polyfiber Manual THUROUGHLY before 

beginning your covering process.



Regards,



Doug Remoundos

Classic IV

Montreal, Canada



--

barry(at)pgtc.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:36 am Post subject: Irons for covering

OK, I have to throw this in.  I drilled a hole in the small iron that 

receives a precision laboratory  thermometer with a dial indicator.  The 

hole is more than an inch deep.  This way, I have a constant reading of the 

temperature.  I believe this could be done with the household iron.  Based 

on my experience, most of these thermostats are terribly inaccurate and 

inconsistent.  I tried several before finding one that is nearly consistent. 

It is a Sunbeam.  I calibrated it by the Polyfiber instructions.



N880BW has been flying for 6 years now and has 500 hours on it and the 

fabric is holding up well.



Barry West. Model IV, 1200

dafox(at)ckt.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 7:12 pm Post subject: Irons for covering

Hello Barry, and all,

  

         I, like all  of us that spent hours calibrating our Irons, Manacote irons too, till they  were 

 as good as we could get them.   I was  ready to start covering, and I chose the wing to be first.

 after I had it covered, it sure looked  wrinkled, I called a friend who had his Kitfox covered, painted,

 and ready to fly, and told him,I think I messed up  my wing cause it was so wrinkled. He drove  almost

 a hundred miles to come and help, he said the wing  was covered just fine.  I gave him my calibrated 

 iron to use, he said I brought my own and  do it by feel. His Iron was not calibrated and he done a 

 great job, and that was six years ago this month  that I have been flying my  IV 1200.  Incidently,

 while my friend was here that day, he covered both  sides of the fuselage, the verticle stabilizer, and the

 bottom, and had it heat shrunk before he went back  home, with an uncalibrated iron.

  

         I  finished the covering, had help on the other wing, but done the rest myself,  did I use my calibrated

 iron ? you bet I did.  This guy just knew  exactly how to use that Iron, He had lots of experiance !!!!!

  

                                                                      David,   Kifox IV 1200   912 UL

  

  

         

  

  

  

  

 [quote]   ---

cjswa(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 5:18 pm Post subject: Irons for covering

Jerry,

  

 Sorry I'm a little late in replying.  I tried  at least 5 irons, some quite high priced, before I found one that held  calibration well.  Two years ago, the best iron I found was a Sunbeam Model  3980, which held calibration within PolyFiber's requirements.  It was also  the cheapest at about $12 from Walmart.  For the tighter areas, I use a  Coverite Black Baron Iron (I think you can get this at Aircraft  Spruce).   The Black Baron maintains a very accurate  temperature.

  

 When you are calibrating the iron, make sure you  let it go through a few heating cycles before you check the temperature.   The first couple of times the thermostat turns on and off it will  overshoot.

  

 Bill Anderson

 Brentwood, NH

 Model IV - 1050 (not yet done)

  

 [quote]   ---

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