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mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
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 Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 3:16 pm Post subject: SNF Near Misses |
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Excuse me, but I have to reply yet once again on this topic. It seems
this whole thing is degenerating into a contest of "he said" "she said",
and that is not the place I wanted to end up with this conversation.
I admit that I can easily be enticed into a verbal argument, because
there is a part of me that loves a good debate, just for the heck of it.
On the other hand, such arguments are best left off-line and not in
front of the whole world for them to either get bored with, or in the
worst case, angry with. This topic is moving in a bad direction, so I
am going to make a strong effort to not respond further after this last
message. The points have been made, both pro and con. Readers can come
up with their own conclusions to this issue. Many have understood the
general points I have been trying to make. Others have viewed what I
have said as some sort of personal attack and have responded
accordingly.
Pappy, I do not have an issue with you. I respect your many hours of
flight time and experience. I also am not trying to cast personal
dispersions towards you or anyone else. Further, I have talked to some
of the people that were there, besides hearing your own personal
account. I have a HUGE respect for you personally and your piloting
abilities in general.
That said, I draw the line when you start putting words in my mouth.
Comments like this one: "It seem to me you have an issue with formation
flying. Like us 'civilians' shouldn't be allowed to do it?"
Sir, that comment is purely unfounded and is very aggressive. I have
stated since day one that I support formation flying. I have never said
one word against formation flying in general or specifically. What I
have said is that I find fault with the attitude from SOME formation
pilots that the formation flight must be continued at all costs. That
there never is a logical reason to knock it off. I also find fault with
anyone who points to other peoples mistakes without first listing their
own. My response, that you currently are objecting to, was written
with that fact in mind, nothing else.
I agree with you 100% that being legal is not an excuse for being
reckless. And like loyalty, that is a phase that is pointed at both
ends. There is no question that the Mooney driver should have called on
the radio and should not have been part of a new mid-air. It is also
clear that your flight made a large number of errors as well, as you
have clearly pointed out in one of your postings. Thank you.
Further, I do not approve of the term "cloth ear" or "Spam Can" being
used to describe other pilots that the writer has never even met
personally. Especially when used by supposedly professional trained
pilots that are speaking in public and Sir, that includes you as well as
the next guy. If my viewpoint in that regards angers you, I am sorry.
I simply do not believe in using "labels" towards fellow pilots. Maybe
it is ok for anyone to joke in private. We all should keep in mind that
a lot of people read this list and not all of them are RPA members.
Pappy you said this: " Mediocrity thy name is Spam Can. If it seem us
warbird types decry Cessna, Piper, or Mooney pilots as possible Piraeus,
let's look at the numbers. Let us assume that in every pilot group, 10%
are really "du fuses". With over 30,000 Pipers, Cessna, or Mooney
aircraft hopping around that means there maybe 3,000 jerks airborne. If
the warbird group has (guessing 1,000 aircraft flying) that means 100
pilots. If we run into a piss poor pilot guess what type of aircraft he
will most likely be flying? It's just numbers and common sense. No
need to get bent out of shape."
I strongly disagree, and do in fact feel that it is worth getting "bent
out of shape" about. I see danger in "warbird types" breaking themselves
apart from the pilot population at large, and think that the fact that
they are fortunate enough to fly an aircraft of this nature makes them
something special. The same goes for formation pilots. The same goes
for aerobatic pilots. I believe that the "US" and "THEM" viewpoint is
something to be avoided, and that it leads to an unhealthy and possibly
unsafe attitude. To wit: Arrogance, thy name is warbird driver". You
are special when others define you that way, not when you define
yourself.
Pappy, you went on to say: "If #2 had not been NORDO, he would have
caught my first call on the Mooney and never came near him. If the
Cessna had cleared the runway in a normal expeditious manner, we would
not have had to go around. If the Mooney had been listening up on the
frequency and visually checked the area, he would not have taken off
when he did. To blame this whole thing on the fact we were flying
formation to began with? BS."
You're putting words into my mouth again. I DID NOT BLAME THIS WHOLE
THING ON YOUR FORMATION FLIGHT.
And "if" a cow had balls, she'd be a bull.
What I did say, and I will say again, is that your formation flight was
part of the problem and that it might have been worthwhile to consider
"KNOCKING IT OFF" as one of MANY recommendations for how to keep it from
happening again.
THAT'S IT. THAT'S ALL. My response postings have been made to folks
that I felt just could not accept the above as a viable option as well
as everything else, along with folks that tended to blame it all on the
Mooney, or referred to that pour soul as a "Spam Can", etc. etc.
Above all, the one thing that you said that really caught my attention,
and I ADMIT that I am taking it out of context, was simply this
(emphasis mine): "AT THE CHANCE OF SOUNDING ARROGANT, OUR FORMATION WENT
THE WAY IT SHOULD HAVE".
No further comment.
Mark Bitterlich
N50YK
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cjpilot710(at)aol.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 4:35 pm Post subject: SNF Near Misses |
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In a message dated 4/30/2007 7:18:35 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil writes:
I hate e-mail discussion. The written word (at least for me) never can convey the personal intent nor one's personal integrity. It is to easy to pick the unmeant or hurtful meaning, if the reader feels under attack. Those that can write without the reader misunderstanding are in the annuals of time as such. Not me though and I should know better. End of discussion for me. I'm going to go play with my grand kids.
Jim "Pappy' Goolsby
[quote]--> Yak-List message posted by: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil>
Excuse me, but I have to reply yet once again on this topic. It seems
this whole thing is degenerating into a contest of "he said" "she said",
and that is not the place I wanted to end up with this conversation.
I admit that I can easily be enticed into a verbal argument, because
there is a part of me that loves a good debate, just for the heck of it.
On the other hand, such arguments are best left off-line and not in
front of the whole world for them to either get bored with, or in the
worst case, angry with. This topic is moving in a bad direction, so I
am going to make a strong effort to not respond further after this last
message. The points have been made, both pro and con. Readers can come
up with their own conclusions to this issue. Many have understood the
general points I have been trying to make. Others have viewed what I
have said as some sort of personal attack and have responded
accordingly.
Pappy, I do not have an issue with you. I respect your many hours of
flight time and experience. I also am not trying to cast personal
dispersions towards you or anyone else. Further, I have talked to some
of the people that were there, besides hearing your own personal
account. I have a HUGE respect for you personally and your piloting
abilities in general.
That said, I draw the line when you start putting words in my mouth.
Comments like this one: "It seem to me you have an issue with formation
flying. Like us 'civilians' shouldn't be allowed to do it?"
Sir, that comment is purely unfounded and is very aggressive. I have
stated since day one that I support formation flying. I have never said
one word against formation flying in general or specifically. What I
have said is that I find fault with the attitude from SOME formation
pilots that the formation flight must be continued at all costs. That
there never is a logical reason to knock it off. I also find fault with
anyone who points to other peoples mistakes without first listing their
own. My response, that you currently are objecting to, was written
with that fact in mind, nothing else.
I agree with you 100% that being legal is not an excuse for being
reckless. And like loyalty, that is a phase that is pointed at both
ends. There is no question that the Mooney driver should have called on
the radio and should not have been part of a new mid-air. It is also
clear that your flight made a large number of errors as well, as you
have clearly pointed out in one of your postings. Thank you.
Further, I do not approve of the term "cloth ear" or "Spam Can" being
used to describe other pilots that the writer has never even met
personally. Especially when used by supposedly professional trained
pilots that are speaking in public and Sir, that includes you as well as
the next guy. If my viewpoint in that regards angers you, I am sorry.
I simply do not believe in using "labels" towards fellow pilots. Maybe
it is ok for anyone to joke in private. We all should keep in mind that
a lot of people read this list and not all of them are RPA members.
Pappy you said this: " Mediocrity thy name is Spam Can. If it seem us
warbird types decry Cessna, Piper, or Mooney pilots as possible Piraeus,
let's look at the numbers. Let us assume that in every pilot group, 10%
are really "du fuses". With over 30,000 Pipers, Cessna, or Mooney
aircraft hopping around that means there maybe 3,000 jerks airborne. If
the warbird group has (guessing 1,000 aircraft flying) that means 100
pilots. If we run into a piss poor pilot guess what type of aircraft he
will most likely be flying? It's just numbers and common sense. No
need to get bent out of shape."
I strongly disagree, and do in fact feel that it is worth getting "bent
out of shape" about. I see danger in "warbird types" breaking themselves
apart from the pilot population at large, and think that the fact that
they are fortunate enough to fly an aircraft of this nature makes them
something special. The same goes for formation pilots. The same goes
for aerobatic pilots. I believe that the "US" and "THEM" viewpoint is
something to be avoided, and that it leads to an unhealthy and possibly
unsafe attitude. To wit: Arrogance, thy name is warbird driver". You
are special when others define you that way, not when you define
yourself.
Pappy, you went on to say: "If #2 had not been NORDO, he would have
caught my first call on the Mooney and never came near him. If the
Cessna had cleared the runway in a normal expeditious manner, we would
not have had to go around. If the Mooney had been listening up on the
frequency and visually checked the area, he would not have taken off
when he did. To blame this whole thing on the fact we were flying
formation to began with? BS."
You're putting words into my mouth again. I DID NOT BLAME THIS WHOLE
THING ON YOUR FORMATION FLIGHT.
And "if" a cow had balls, she'd be a bull.
What I did say, and I will say again, is that your formation flight was
part of the problem and that it might have been worthwhile to consider
"KNOCKING IT OFF" as one of MANY recommendations for how to keep it from
happening again.
THAT'S IT. THAT'S ALL. My response postings have been made to folks
that I felt just could not accept the above as a viable option as well
as everything else, along with folks that tended to blame it all on the
Mooney, or referred to that pour soul as a "Spam Can", etc. etc.
Above all, the one thing that you said that really caught my attention,
and I ADMIT that I am taking it out of context, was simply this
(emphasis mine): "AT THE CHANCE OF SOUNDING ARROGANT, OUR FORMATION WENT
THE WAY IT SHOULD HAVE".
No further comment.
Mark Bitterlich
N50YK
--
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Strepsils
Joined: 02 Jul 2021
Posts: 2
Location: https://lunwenzhushou.net/thesis-dai-xie/
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| Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2021 2:58 am Post subject: Re: SNF Near Misses |
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