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Transitioning from a C172 to a RV-7A/9A

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smittysrv

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 67

Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 4:00 am Post subject: Transitioning from a C172 to a RV-7A/9A

Yesterday, I got an unexpected demo  ride in a Diamond DA 40 aircraft (with all the bells and whistles) at our EAA  fish fry. It had a free castering nose wheel "kind of like" the RV-7A/9A. As we  were taxiing out to the runway. I was practically pushing the rudder pedals  to floor to get the aircraft to respond to small adjustments in straight taxiing  and then had to apply the right brake to get to turn onto the taxiway. As you  Cessna 172 drivers know, this isn't so on the C172.

  

 When we got into the takeoff roll, I felt like  student pilot again as we waddled down the runway, swinging the butt of the  airplane from side to side, trying to maintain center line. A humbling  experience, needlessly to say.

  

 Having never taken off in a RV-7A or 9A, my  question is, how does the RV respond to rudder application as compared to a  C172?

  

 Thanks guys!

 Smitty

 http://SmittysRV.com

  

   [quote][b]

_________________
Smittys RV-9A
SmittysRV.com

deruiteraircraftservices(
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 4:20 am Post subject: Transitioning from a C172 to a RV-7A/9A

Hi,

  

 it's easier if you look a loooong way ahead of your  airplane, instead of only a couple of yards, trying to keep the nose on the  yellow line. 

 [quote]   ---

ronlee(at)pcisys.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 5:37 am Post subject: Transitioning from a C172 to a RV-7A/9A

[quote]   Having never taken off in a RV-7A or 9A, my    question is, how does the RV respond to rudder application as compared to a    C172?

    

    

    

   It is not an issue.  At very low speeds you    may hve to use the brake but get a reasonable

   taxi speed and you are fine.  It also helps    to not over correct.

    

   Ron Lee

[b]

rv7(at)b4.ca
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 6:38 am Post subject: Transitioning from a C172 to a RV-7A/9A

On 4:55 2007-04-29 "Smitty" <smitty(at)smittysrv.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Having never taken off in a RV-7A or 9A, my question is, how does the

 RV respond to rudder application as compared to a C172?


	


Don't be too concerned about it.  The problem is that the feedback loop on

the RV (or the Diamond) is different than on the 172, and your brain is

calibrated for the 172.  You will re-calibrate once you start flying RV's

more frequently.  More time in the Diamond might help you get used to the

free-castering nosewheel, which is definitely part of that feedback loop.



I did the exact same thing yesterday while doing a formation takeoff with a

Globe Swift while flying a friend's RV-9A.  As soon as we released the

brakes, the -9A decided to go hunt rabbits.  I managed to bring it back in

line, but there was a lot of butt-weaving to get there.  This is after

spending the winter flying a Cessna 150... 



-Rob

mchamberlain@runbox.com

Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 8

Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 5:14 am Post subject: Transitioning from a C172 to a RV-7A/9A

And if you really  want some fun: try a takeoff in a 7 or 9 instead of the "A" and see how  different that feels 

  

 Mark - N234C -  RV-7

 155 hours  

   [quote][b]

_________________
Rv-7 (234C Res)
Engine

kitfoxmike

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 373

Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 6:18 am Post subject: Re: Transitioning from a C172 to a RV-7A/9A

I don't respond very much, but this one I feel I need to.  I really don't think you need to worry to much.  In my days of training I also had trouble keeping centerline even with the 172.  After more training I found I was mainly over correcting( needed to learn rudder).  When I trained for the soft field take off I thought I would just loose it because I couldn't see out the front.  I found that I could handle things just fine, sure you couldn't see out the front(just like a tail wheel), but never the less I was able to hold center line.  Reason is you have more wind going over the control surfaces.  Think about it, the fan is going full bull, now you have rudder control, way cool.



When I got my kitfox(tail wheel)  I had the same issues, all over the place, squirly little thing.  Now days I just hit the throttle and force the tail up as soon as possible and then depart on the mains, no squirl.  My advice is to get out on that runway and ram the throttle and pull back on the stick(actualy pull the stick then hit the throttle) and get that nose off the runway as soon as it will get up, this one might suprise you on how quick things will happen, then as soon as the main depart the runway, push forward on the stick to stay in ground effect, as soon as the speeds are correct pull back and fly away.  I suspect this will happen very quickly in an RV.

sbuc(at)hiwaay.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 6:51 am Post subject: Transitioning from a C172 to a RV-7A/9A

kitfoxmike wrote:

   My advice is to get out on that runway and ram the

 	  Quote: 	
		   throttle and pull back on the stick(actualy pull the stick then hit

 the throttle) and get that nose off the runway as soon as it will get

 up, this one might suprise you on how quick things will happen, then

 as soon as the main depart the runway, push forward on the stick to

 stay in ground effect, as soon as the speeds are correct pull back

 and fly away.  I suspect this will happen very quickly in an RV.


	




Wow! I have to wonder how many low-time RV pilots could use that 

technique without dragging the rudder on the runway followed by slamming 

the nose wheel back down, followed by......I'm not sure what.  



The elevator on an RV has a *lot* of authority and takeoff is not a good 

time to be sawing on the stick. This thread was begun by someone stating 

their concern about being able to hold an RV-A on the centerline during 

the takeoff run. This task will be more or less mastered very early in 

transition training and there will be no need for manhandling the 

control stick during takeoffs. Just smoothly apply power, a *little* 

back stick to lighten the load on the nose gear and give the wings a 

slightly positive angle of attack, then off you go with little further 

control input as the wings decide it is time to fly and the plane 

transitions into climb. Takeoff will occur in about the same amount of 

time it took to read the previous sentence.  



Sam Buchanan

denis.walsh(at)comcast.ne
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 7:06 am Post subject: Transitioning from a C172 to a RV-7A/9A

I agree with Sam on the techniques, but let me add a small tip.



I  have close to 3,500  takeoffs in my RV-6A, and have coached a  

hundred or so on takeoffs.  What has worked for me is to tell them to  

use the brakes to steer until aligned with the runway.  Then, as  

power is advanced, slide your feet down off the brakes and only use  

the rudder to steer during the take off roll.  The RV accelerates so  

fast that steering will be available almost immediately.  Second I  

tell them not to anticipate the rudder input.  Wait and react to any  

yawing that occurs.  Again, the RV has such a powerful rudder that  

you tend to over correct at first if you don't slow them down.



Not to worry, everyone "gets it" very quickly.  Now pitch control  

after lift off is another story......  That takes some practice.

Denis Walsh



On Apr 30, 2007, at 07:51 318890004, Sam Buchanan wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  

 The elevator on an RV has a *lot* of authority and takeoff is not a  

 good time to be sawing on the stick. This thread was begun by  

 someone stating their concern about being able to hold an RV-A on  

 the centerline during the takeoff run. This task will be more or  

 less mastered very early in transition training and there will be  

 no need for manhandling the control stick during takeoffs. Just  

 smoothly apply power, a *little* back stick to lighten the load on  

 the nose gear and give the wings a slightly positive angle of  

 attack, then off you go with little further control input as the  

 wings decide it is time to fly and the plane transitions into  

 climb. Takeoff will occur in about the same amount of time it took  

 to read the previous sentence.  



 Sam Buchanan

LloydDR(at)wernerco.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 7:49 am Post subject: Transitioning from a C172 to a RV-7A/9A

I am one of the low time pilots and just completed transition training

with Mike Seager, and he teaches exactly this for transition training on

the 10, Easy push to full throttle, Rudder to keep centerline, Pull back

to get the nose off, relax the backpressure, and a slight push forward

and let it fly off the runway, set climb angle and airspeed to 120.

Dan

N289DT 10.6 hours RV10 time, now if I could just finish mine and fly it!

--

sbuc(at)hiwaay.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 8:17 am Post subject: Transitioning from a C172 to a RV-7A/9A

Lloyd, Daniel R. wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 I am one of the low time pilots and just completed transition training

 with Mike Seager, and he teaches exactly this for transition training on

 the 10, Easy push to full throttle, Rudder to keep centerline, Pull back

 to get the nose off, relax the backpressure, and a slight push forward

 and let it fly off the runway, set climb angle and airspeed to 120.

 Dan

 N289DT 10.6 hours RV10 time, now if I could just finish mine and fly it!


	




Dan, I should have prefaced my remarks to say I was referring to 

two-place RVs. I have never flown a -10, but a couple of pilots who have 

-10 time told me the controls are significantly heavier than the 

two-place RVs (nicely harmonized, just heavier), and I suppose this 

means a bit more control travel is necessary at slow speed.



I have no doubt Mike taught you well.  



Sam Buchanan

kitfoxmike

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 373

Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 8:38 am Post subject: Re: Transitioning from a C172 to a RV-7A/9A

Sorry, 

I should have stated that pulling back on an RV stick might only be one inch, you are correct, they are full of power and authority is quick on the stick.  But still, get off the nose.  Use of brakes is important also, I guess that's why I'm getting the better brakes from grove.

cnpeters

Joined: 24 Aug 2006
Posts: 23
Location: Bloomington/Normal, IL

Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 3:33 pm Post subject: Transitioning from a C172 to a RV-7A/9A

While I normally fly Pipers, I play once in awhile with a DA-20 (and 

have flown the DA-40/G1000). Using the castoring nosewheel the first 

time or two was awkward, but it became intuitive after a bit. I usually 

use the rudder even to full stops for small corrections (as their is 

some prop wash), and lean on the brake a bit if needed. On takeoff, the 

rudder quickly becomes effective enough. Just have to watch the 

crosswind gusts. Works well.  The DA-20 also is helpful with its 

obnoxious glide ratio for energy management in landing for us RV-9 

drivers to be.

Carl (RV-9A)

PS - Love your website - I am a little behind you in construction, and 

your site is one of my favored "reference" sites

_________________
Carl Peters
RV-9A wings

lsbrv7a(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 6:34 pm Post subject: Transitioning from a C172 to a RV-7A/9A

When I flew a Grumman Lynx I would line up aimed at the right edge of the runway about 500 feet away.  The initial prop wash would straighten my path down the runway without using the brakes.  Then the control surfaces became more effective, raising the front wheel a bit would require right rudder.  Does the RV-XA do the same?

   

  do not archive

 

   

   

Sherman Butler

RV-7a Wings

Idaho Falls

           Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?

 Check out [url=http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48245/*http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html;_ylc=X3oDMTE1YW1jcXJ2BF9TAzk3MTA3MDc2BHNlYwNtYWlsdGFncwRzbGsDbmV3LWNhcnM-]new cars at Yahoo! Autos.[/url]  [quote][b]

Hopperdhh(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 5:15 am Post subject: Transitioning from a C172 to a RV-7A/9A

Sherman,

 

I also used to fly a Grumman Lynx.  The RV has a much bigger rudder, so it is 

not necessary to point the plane toward the edge of the runway like we did 

with the Grumman.  Also, the RV is much easier to fly and land than the Grumman. 

 The controls are light like the Grumman but more responsive and not at all 

twitchy, IMHO.  The Grumman was a great trainer.  I think the RV flies more 

like a C-150 although faster on approach, similar to the Lynx in that respect.  

But it doesn't sink like a rock if you get it a little slow, at least not like 

the Grumman.

 

If you can fly the Lynx, the -7A will be a piece of cake.  The only problem I 

had at first was losing the airport due to the speed of the RV.  I would fly 

past the airport and look back maybe 20 seconds or so later and it wouldn't be 

there!  It only takes a few flights to overcome that.

 

Dan Hopper

RV-7A

 

 

 

In a message dated 4/30/2007 10:36:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, 

lsbrv7a(at)yahoo.com writes:

When I flew a Grumman Lynx I would line up aimed at the right edge of the 

runway about 500 feet away.  The initial prop wash would straighten my path down 

the runway without using the brakes.  Then the control surfaces became more 

effective, raising the front wheel a bit would require right rudder.  Does the 

RV-XA do the same?



do not archive



Sherman Butler

RV-7a Wings

Idaho Falls



************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

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