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EVIL SCOTCHBRITE

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Doug Garrou

Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 18
Location: Richmond, VA, USA

Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 7:11 am Post subject: EVIL SCOTCHBRITE

For those who have used green Scotchbrite, fear not:  if this product results in the destruction of your airframe, I will represent your bereaved relatives and estate against 3M -- pro bono.  



Seriously, what could a green Scotchbrite possibly do to aluminum sheet that would damage it?!?  True, I'm nobody's idea of an engineer -- you can trust me on that, or you could just ask the Chief Engineer for Project 801, where my official position apparently is "chief self-inflicted injury receiver." But in any event, my pea-brain can't get itself around the idea of a color-coded killer Scotchbrite. 



I am, however, starting to get nervous.  Now, whenever I see the green Scotchbrite on the shelf at Project 801 HQ, that evil bad-guy music from Star Wars starts playing in my head.  



I also think that aircraft listed for sale in Trade-a-Plane should have to identify total time on the airframe, total time on the engine since overhaul, and whether a green Scotchbrite has ever been within 75 feet of the aircraft.



Finally, I have taken to wearing a maroon Scotchbrite on a string around my neck when I sleep, to ward off the evil green spirit.  Really, you just can't be too careful.



Doug Garrou

Project 801

www.garrou.com

p.s.  You know you can trust me: My hair is sort of maroon-colored.  



--

Jim.Weston(at)delta.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 10:51 am Post subject: EVIL SCOTCHBRITE

Ok, this is getting really fun.  So I can't resist to put in my two

cents.  I don't know about the color coding, but the problem is that

some pads are manufactured with Aluminum Oxide as the abrasive, and some

are manufactured with Iron Oxide as the abrasive.  Iron Oxide is very

very very bad to use on aluminum.  During the process of scrubbing the

aluminum small particles of iron oxide are embedded within the aluminum.

The contact between dissimilar metals and the rusting action of the iron

causes corrosion to form.  WE DON'T WANT CORROSION ON OUR ALUMINUM

AIRPLANES.  I may have the physics/chemistry of the situation a bit

wrong, but the effect is the same.  Unless you figure out the color code

issue, buy your scotch brite type of pads at the local auto paint shop

and make sure that the abrasive is aluminum.



Jim Weston

Concord, Ga. 



--

bjohnson(at)satx.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 1:29 pm Post subject: EVIL SCOTCHBRITE

Jim,



It appears that what I have (not actually "green" per-say, looks more like

army green) is "silicon carbide"  any thoughts on that??? More fun??? <grin>



Bruce Johnson



Hoping my Sonex doesnt fall out of the sky because I bought cheep surplus

scotch=brite.



--

n801bh(at)netzero.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 4:08 pm Post subject: EVIL SCOTCHBRITE

Finally, I have taken to wearing a maroon Scotchbrite on a string around my neck 

when I sleep, to ward off the evil green spirit.  Really, you just can't be too 

careful.



Doug Garrou

Project 801

www.garrou.com

p.s.  You know you can trust me: My hair is sort of maroon-colored.  



//////////////////////////////////////////

 

Ya know, The image of  green colored scotchbrite hair flashed through my brain for a second. All I saw was a  Don King  looking guy at a salad bar... EEEWWWWWW... <G>

 

Of course, DO NOT ARCHIVE. 



Ben Haas

N801BH

www.haaspowerair.com





Finally, I have taken to wearing a maroon Scotchbrite on a string around my neck 

when I sleep, to ward off the evil green spirit. Really, you just can't be too 

careful.



Doug Garrou

Project 801

www.garrou.com

p.s. You know you can trust me: My hair is sort of maroon-colored. 



//////////////////////////////////////////



Ya know,The image ofgreen colored scotchbrite hair flashed through my brain for a second. All I saw was a Don King looking guy at a salad bar... EEEWWWWWW... G



Of course, DO NOT ARCHIVE.



BenHaas

N801BH

www.haaspowerair.com

japhillipsga(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 7:02 am Post subject: EVIL SCOTCHBRITE

Bruce, yes, unfortunately, it appears from our investigation that you have incorrectly used the little known, but very dangerous and unstable, Explosive Army Green scotch brite pad. Sorry pal, your only possible course of action is to hand chip all paint and primer from you plane using a plastic picnic spoon while under a water sprinkler. Tough luck. With any kind of effort you should maybe done by early April, say around the 1st. Take care and best regards, Bill of Georgia

do not archive 

 

--

Doug Garrou

Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 18
Location: Richmond, VA, USA

Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 7:08 am Post subject: EVIL SCOTCHBRITE

Okay, yours is the kind of post that gets the evil Scotchbrite internet world humming.  It's time to apply the scientific process.  



I'm not saying you're wrong -- at this point I'm WAAAAY too ignorant to stake out my position -- but I'm from Missouri.  (Figuratively, and thus unlike our 801 kit, which is from Missouri literally.)



Anyway, do you have:



(1) a source for the claim that green scotchbrite contains iron oxide abrasives

(2) a source for the claim that iron oxide abrasives are very very bad to use on aluminum

(3) a source for the claim that small particles of iron oxide abrasives will actually embed themselves in the aluminum

(4) a source for the claim that these embedded particles then contribute to dissimilar metal corrosion processes

(5) any evidence that any aluminum sheet anywhere has been corroded or damaged in this fashion.



I'll take the "WE DON'T WANT CORROSION" part as a given.



It seems to me that whatever the heck is in green scotchbrite, steps 3 and 4 are the really questionable steps here.  Meanwhile, we seem to have anecdotal evidence that 5 hasn't yet occurred.



Clearly we need to ask those Ph.D. corrosion types this question.  That was a really interesting post (unlike my blather....)



Cheers

Doug Garrou

Project801

www.garrou.com



--

jhstarn(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 7:39 am Post subject: EVIL SCOTCHBRITE

OR A SECOND OPTION.......You could ship it to me, where I promise to take 

the required steps to neutralize the hazard, then buy yourself another kit & 

start over.   8*)   Also this must be completed on or before April F.... ... 

the 1st. 2006.

KABONG  Do Not Archive (May even kick in a few bucks to help out on shipping 

costs)



---

steveadams

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 191

Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 8:25 am Post subject: Re: EVIL SCOTCHBRITE

Please see my post under "green scotch-brite". I could find no scotchbrite pads having iron oxide. This is an OWT.

Jim.Weston(at)delta.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 6:22 am Post subject: EVIL SCOTCHBRITE

Doug,



I really am from Missouri.  Grew up in the St. Louis area.  So why don't

you "show me" and try the iron oxide on yours.  Let me know how it comes

out.  (The wink means that I'm just kidding.)



To attempt a partial answer to items 3 & 4. (I'm at work and don't have

access to any of my reference books.) I believe it was either in the

Tony Bengalis (not sure about the spelling of his name)book about

homebuilding, or the book that I bought about aircraft painting before I

painted my 601HDS, but one of the two (probably the painting book) made

the statements that I mentioned.



As I mentioned in my original post, I don't know anything about the

color coding of these scouring pads.



Have fun,

Jim Weston

Concord, Ga. 



--

Jim.Weston(at)delta.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 6:39 am Post subject: EVIL SCOTCHBRITE

Ok, I'm going to have to hang my head low in shame.  I just went to the

3M website and looked up the info on their Scotch-Brite pads.  Here's

the quote from their Q&A section:



 "How are Scotch-Brite(r) scrub sponges made?

The sponge is made of ground wood pulp; the scouring surface of nylon

fiber."



The only thing that I can figure is that, since it's been a few years

ago since I painted my plane, I must have mixed up things that I read in

the book about not using steel wool and conversations that I had with a

local aircraft painter about the use of various different scotch-brite

products.



It looks like you're all ok with the scotch brite.  Their website

indicated that the color coding was just an indication of how abrasive

the pad was.



Hope this helps,

Jim Weston

Concord, Ga.

--

Flydog1966(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 6:31 pm Post subject: EVIL SCOTCHBRITE

In a message dated 2/9/2006 10:11:16 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  

dgarrou(at)hunton.com writes:



(1) a  source for the claim that green scotchbrite contains iron oxide  

abrasives

(2) a source for the claim that iron oxide abrasives are very  very bad to 

use on aluminum

(3) a source for the claim that small particles  of iron oxide abrasives will 

actually embed themselves in the aluminum

(4)  a source for the claim that these embedded particles then contribute to  

dissimilar metal corrosion processes

(5) any evidence that any aluminum  sheet anywhere has been corroded or 

damaged in this  fashion.



I can only guess that this scotchbrite rumor  got started by Zenair news 

issue #84. The back page shows a chart supplied by  Zenith stating that 

Scotch-Brite "S" pads are "prohibited" on aluminum. But  the "A" pads are O.K.

      However, someone posted that the MSDS for  the pads shows them as being 

made with aluminum oxide. If that is true,and I  would believe the MSDS, then 

they are fine on Aluminum.

      Iron oxide abrasives? I wonder if they mean  silicone carbide, which is 

bad for aluminum.

mike.sinclair(at)ATT.NET
Guest

Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:01 pm Post subject: EVIL SCOTCHBRITE

 	  Quote: 	
		         However, someone posted that the MSDS for  the pads shows them as being

 made with aluminum oxide. If that is true,and I  would believe the MSDS, then

 they are fine on Aluminum.

       Iron oxide abrasives? I wonder if they mean  silicone carbide, which is

 bad for aluminum.


	


I believe you may have two different materials mixed up. Adding the E onto the

silicon in the above statement is actually a misnomer of the silicon carbide

material, and as such is a misrepresentation of the actual properties of the

material. Silicon carbide has a fairly widespread use in cutting technologies and

has many uses in the business of building aircraft (see the description of silicon

carbide below). Now the material "silicone" which is a rubbery material that also

has many uses in aircraft, primarily as a sealer, is very detrimental to the task

of getting paint to adhere to a surface. It is an absolute no-no in any area of

composite manufacturing as it will affect the bond strength and integrity of a

composite layup. If you get silicone on a surface to be painted it is almost

impossible to remove completely, and your paint won't stick! Solvents will not cut

cured silicone and it will probably require some process that does abrade the

metal to some extent to remove it. If you are going to use silicone as a sealer (I

used high temp red to seal my firewall, and black to seal around the neck of my

header tank where it protrudes through the top skin), apply the silicone only

after painting. And that's about all the two dollar words I've got for today.



Mike Sinclair  N701TD



Silicon Carbide is the only chemical compound of carbon and silicon. It was

originally produced by a high temperature electro-chemical reaction of sand and

carbon. Silicon carbide is an excellent abrasive and has been produced and made

into grinding wheels and other abrasive products for over one hundred years. Today

the material has been developed into a high quality technical grade ceramic with

very good mechanical properties. It is used in abrasives, refractories, ceramics,

and numerous high-performance applications. The material can also be made an

electrical conductor and has applications in resistance heating, flame igniters

and electronic components. Structural and wear applications are constantly

developing.

Flydog1966(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 10:28 am Post subject: EVIL SCOTCHBRITE

Yeah, I meant silicon,just kant spel.

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