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EFIS

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hansriet

Joined: 09 Feb 2007
Posts: 93

Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 1:12 pm Post subject: EFIS

Is there anybody who is going to install or who installed already an EFIS (like the Dynon) without an analogue backup of primairy flight instruments?



I see the advantage (financially as well as for panel real estate) of having an EFIS that's all in one and that includes an HSI. But if you have to install analogue instruments as well that kind of defeats the purpose, doesn't it?



I would like to hear your thoughts on this.



Hans van Riet

dredmoody(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 1:49 pm Post subject: EFIS

Hello Hans,



   My 601XL is not flying yet...... it will probably fly late this year, so the question and my answer are still academic rather than experience based.



   With that disclaimer, I am using two AF-3400 units from Advanced Flight Systems; one is the EFIS and the other is the EIS. I have put a steam gauge ASI in my panel (2.25" from UMA) as a backup. I have also installed a Tiny Tach to backup the Tach display. My gps provides a backup display of ALT. 



   I figure that if the EFIS goes dark on me, I want Tach and ASI to get down safely with confidence. If the aircraft electrical system is still working and the weather is good I may even decide to complete the flight to the original destination with the ALT info from the gps. 



   I am not planning on adding backup gyro instruments since the plane is for VFR Cross Country. If you plan to certify yours for IFR, you may need the back up gyros.



Dred

---- hansriet <hansinla(at)mac.com> wrote: 

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Is there anybody who is going to install or who installed already an EFIS (like the Dynon) without an analogue backup of primairy flight instruments?

 

 I see the advantage (financially as well as for panel real estate) of having an EFIS that's all in one and that includes an HSI. But if you have to install analogue instruments as well that kind of defeats the purpose, doesn't it?

 

 I would like to hear your thoughts on this.

 

 Hans van Riet

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=110675#110675

larry(at)macsmachine.com
Guest

Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 2:03 pm Post subject: EFIS

Hans,

You make a very good point. For instrument flying the argument wouldn’t 

apply, but as a VFR experimental, you could very well install an Engine 

Information System and an EFIS as your primary instrument groups and 

forgo all but perhaps a compass and a lift reserve indicator. The weak 

link here is obvious that any one component can fail all and you’d be 

looking at possibly a larger replacement or repair cost. If I had 

do-overs, I’d have left all the “expensive not so durable round gages 

off the panel. My EIS has been the easiest and least costly item to 

install. The tachometer was replaced once at $100.00, the electric T&B 

has been in and out twice at $250.00, so an EFIS is looking pretty good.



Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com <http://www.macsmachine.com/>



hansriet wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Is there anybody who is going to install or who installed already an EFIS (like the Dynon) without an analogue backup of primairy flight instruments?



 I see the advantage (financially as well as for panel real estate) of having an EFIS that's all in one and that includes an HSI. But if you have to install analogue instruments as well that kind of defeats the purpose, doesn't it?



 I would like to hear your thoughts on this.



 Hans van Riet

MaxNr(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 5:49 pm Post subject: EFIS

I am interested in the DYNON FlightDEK 180 but the Stratomaster Enigma is coming on strong. Because my project is day/night VFR I don't realy need backups. But I do want back up oil pressure, ASI and altimeter steam gauges with a simple glue on skid indicator. These would be the cheapest, non TSO'ed used gauges that I can find. My reasoning is I would have dispatch capability if the Dynon went black away from home. Gauges would be on the copilot's side. 

 The last year and half before retirement was with a Honeywell glass cockpit and I was the grumpy old ***** that only watched the standby steam gauges during critical stages of flight, then transitioned to the glass on climb out. I got more accepting after about 600-800 hours. 

 My hope is that there is a lot of chatter about this because I respect all your opinions and my mind is still open. 

 Do not archive

 Bob Dingley

 601XL/Lyc

**************************************

 See what's free at http://www.aol.com.  [quote][b]

craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 6:27 pm Post subject: EFIS

I have an Enigma but I am not flying yet. I'm backing it up with an MGL

Flight II. I bought a glass panel to get away from mechanical gauges, why

would I want them for back-up? Why have back-ups which are *less* reliable

than what they are backing-up? Electricity? The Flight II will run on a 9

volt battery for two+ hours and the shelf life of an alkaline battery is 5

years. And in reality the 9 volt battery is a back-up to the back-up battery

for the Enigma.

 

www.mglavionics.co.za/flight2.html

 

In a 3.5 inch hole the Flight II gives you:



*	Altimeter

*	Airspeed indicator

*	Analog VSI

*	Digital VSI

*	Density altimeter 

*	True airspeed



and a lot more.

	 

If you want back-up engine instruments add an MGL E1:



www.mglavionics.co.za/Docs/e1.pdf



In another 3.5 inch hole you gain:



* RPM with digital and analog readout.

* Programmable engine hobbs meter and running timer (flight timer).

* Up to four thermocouple channels for EGT and CHT probes, fully

programmable.

* A water temperature or oil temperature monitor.

* Oil pressure monitor.



Chris Smith flies his Cleanex (Corvair-powered Sonex) with nothing but a

Flight II and an E1.



Also, don't forget that if you have a Garmin 296/396/496 it will run on its

internal battery for hours and can provide basic attitude information. But

it can't provide air speed.



-- Craig

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p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att
Guest

Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 6:45 pm Post subject: EFIS

Hi Hans,



My plan is to install a single Dynon combined EFIS/EIS.  The only 

other flight instrument I have is a lift reserve indicator I made 

while waiting for my wing kit to arrive.  For radios, I will have 

some sort of (portable, battery powered?) GPS along with a Comm 

(NAV?) and transponder.



The GPS provides a reasonable backup for the EFIS.  I consider 

neither one necessary unless I screw up and find myself in bad 

weather where I must fly on the gauges.  For most VFR flights I don't 

require any instruments at all - except for navigation in unknown territory.



I will be operating with Sport Pilot limitations, so only VFR day 

operations are planned.  Also, I had the benefit of a really good 

instructor for night flying.  He took me up one evening (in a 172XP) 

and we did circuits and bumps for an hour or two.  We started at dusk 

and went well into total darkness.  The only lights in use were the 

navigation lights required to keep others from hitting us.  I learned 

to handle all the necessary controls by touch and to control the 

engine, prop, and airspeed by just sound and the nose position 

compared to the horizon.  Once you know how to fly with a totally 

black cockpit, you don't forget.  If you haven't yet learned to fly 

like this, then you probably should include a backup airspeed 

indicator and perhaps an altimeter.  If you have a GPS, it can give 

you fine altitude information, but the speed it gives is only ground speed.



If I were planning to fly true IFR, then I would include a backup 

TBI, airspeed, and altimeter.  I know needle/ball and airspeed flying 

is hard work, but if you consider yourself competent to fly IFR then 

you should be able to fly on this level of minimum panel in the rare 

case when your EFIS turns toes up.  If not, some remedial training is in order.



Good luck,



Paul

XL fuselage

At 02:12 PM 5/3/2007, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



Is there anybody who is going to install or who installed already an 

EFIS (like the Dynon) without an analogue backup of primairy flight 

instruments?



I see the advantage (financially as well as for panel real estate) 

of having an EFIS that's all in one and that includes an HSI. But if 

you have to install analogue instruments as well that kind of 

defeats the purpose, doesn't it?



I would like to hear your thoughts on this.



Hans van Riet

secatur

Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Posts: 50
Location: New Zealand

Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 11:40 pm Post subject: Re: EFIS

As previously Posted

Enigma EFIS/EIS/GPS tec.

XCom Radio/Intercom

Electric Flaps/Trim

Room for Xponder and MGL Flight II if required



Do Not Archive

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david_a_g_johnson(at)btin
Guest

Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 1:26 am Post subject: EFIS

I'm not flying yet, so I can't speak from experience!



I have installed the Dynon D100 EFIS and D120 EMS. The EFIS has a battery 

backup, so if it all goes dark, I should have at least the flight 

instruments.



I ave also a magnetic compass and ASI and Altimeter (both 2.25", so don't 

take up much space).



Here in the UK we are limited to daytime/VFR anyway, so I always have the 

option of looking outside to make sure I'm the right way up and above 

ground.



Dave Johnson



601XL Jab.3300

 do not archive



---

dbortol

Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 46

Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 3:34 am Post subject: EFIS

My plane will fly in a year not yet determined. I'm planning to equip it for night VFR and OTT. My current plan is to use a Dynon D100 as the primary instrument, backed up by a lift reserve indicator, electric T&B, and GPS. My thought is that if looking outside isn't enough in the circumstances, I would maintain safe airspeed using the LRI, altitude using GPS, and wings level from the T&B. It would be high stress flying! 



Dino Bortolin



On 5/3/07, hansriet <hansinla(at)mac.com (hansinla(at)mac.com)> wrote:[quote] --> Zenith-List message posted by: "hansriet" <hansinla(at)mac.com (hansinla(at)mac.com)>



Is there anybody who is going to install or who installed already an EFIS (like the Dynon) without an analogue backup of primairy flight instruments? 



<...>



Hans van Riet

[b]

fderfler(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 5:29 am Post subject: EFIS

I fly a 601XL with a Dynon D-180 on the left side of the panel and a Garmin 396 in the middle.   I love everything about the setup (well, except the price of the backup battery for the Dynon).  

  

 My mistake was in not putting a D-10A or some other form of attitude indicator on the co-pilot's side.  Motivated by a sad case of the "cheaps" I assumed that the screen on the D-180 on the left would be big enough to allow a pilot on the right side to use it.   Wrongo.  My pilot friends in the right seat need something to look at.  Sporty's backup AI would be an option and it would give the "backup".  But, for the difference in price between the Sporty's AI and a separate D-10A the D-10A provides a much more usuable picture with more information and independent backup that gives what one person on this thread called "dispatch capability."  (Assuming, I guess, a separate pitot).   

  

 So, don't make my mistake.  Put two screens in if you will ever have a pilot in the right seat.  

-- 

Frank Derfler 

See my views and reviews at www.derfler.biz  

See my information for pilots at www.flyinflorida.com 

  [quote][b]

ccwacker(at)HOTMAIL.COM
Guest

Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 5:46 am Post subject: EFIS

I have a Dynon D-100 and D-120. I also have installed a TruTrak Autopilot 

that has a horizon and DG, this along with a small altimeter and ASI give m 

a good backup. In addition the GPS can be of help. Is this overkill? 

Probably. My main backup is this thing called a compass and a map.



Chuck Wacker

N601CW, quick build

[quote]From: "Dave Johnson" <david_a_g_johnson(at)btinternet.com>

Reply-To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com

To: <zenith-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: Re: EFIS

Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 10:25:30 +0100




<david_a_g_johnson(at)btinternet.com>



I'm not flying yet, so I can't speak from experience!



I have installed the Dynon D100 EFIS and D120 EMS. The EFIS has a battery 

backup, so if it all goes dark, I should have at least the flight 

instruments.



I ave also a magnetic compass and ASI and Altimeter (both 2.25", so don't 

take up much space).



Here in the UK we are limited to daytime/VFR anyway, so I always have the 

option of looking outside to make sure I'm the right way up and above 

ground.



Dave Johnson



601XL Jab.3300

do not archive



---

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