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Europa Widen Shoulder width door mod.

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ptag.dev(at)tiscali.co.uk
Guest

Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 10:45 am Post subject: Europa Widen Shoulder width door mod.

Hi! All   

Has anyone done the widen shoulder width mod.to door and sill? Is there a door insert available ? or “splash”  

I’d be obliged for anyone who has done it to advise a little about it ?  what is it like to do and how long would you say to do it./ any pictures.  

Regards  

Bob Harrison  

G-PTAG Kit 337 just ready to install new 914   

   

Robt.C.Harrison  

   

       [quote][b]

avgashead(at)btinternet.c
Guest

Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 11:34 am Post subject: Europa Widen Shoulder width door mod.

No problem as far as mods go. I have a spare set of splash mouldings for the fuselage, but you need to buy the mouldings for the doors. You can reach me on 07971 171384 and I can post them up to you.  

Richard Scanlan  

  

-----Original Message-----

 From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of R.C.Harrison

 Sent: 03 May  2007 19:44

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Europa Widen Shoulder width door mod.  

   

Hi! All   

Has anyone done the widen shoulder width mod.to door and sill? Is there a door insert available ? or “splash”  

I’d be obliged for anyone who has done it to advise a little about it ?  what is it like to do and how long would you say to do it./ any pictures.  

Regards  

Bob Harrison  

G-PTAG Kit 337 just ready to install new 914   

   

Robt.C.Harrison  

   [quote]            - The Europa-List Email Forum -   --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List              - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -   --> http://forums.matronics.com [b]

NevEyre(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 11:38 am Post subject: Europa Widen Shoulder width door mod.

Hi Bob,

 EO4 do a complete kit,[ new inner door skins, pushrod material and a splash  for the sill mod ] not too much of a job.

 Cheers,

 Nev.

     [quote][b]

sidsel.svein(at)oslo.onli
Guest

Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 11:39 am Post subject: Europa Widen Shoulder width door mod.

I did this mod. during the build stage, and I am  very happy that I did.  Amazing how much that little extra space means, and  the surface your upper arm comes against is wider/flatter then the standard  sill.  The door inserts I have used, of course, and unfortunately  I have thrown away the splash mouldings for the door sill.

  

 The door sill modifications are the same work  whether you do it at build stage or after (except for removing/replacing  interior lining and repainting the affected areas, of course), but the door part  would mean some extra work.  I would definitely recommend the complete  factory mod. set (less the epoxy that comes with it, if you have some left  over), which includes the metal parts to be replaced inside the doors.   Good protection of the plexi and good support of the doors on your bench should  be top concerns in order not to damage the windows.

  

 Regards,

 Svein

 LN-SKJ

 [quote]   ---

wdaniell(at)etb.net.co
Guest

Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 3:44 am Post subject: Europa Widen Shoulder width door mod.

Has anyone got a pic of this?  

Will  

         

  

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of R.C.Harrison

 Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 13:44

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Europa Widen Shoulder width door mod.  

  

   

Hi! All   

Has anyone done the widen shoulder width mod.to door and sill? Is there a door insert available ? or “splash”  

I’d be obliged for anyone who has done it to advise a little about it ?  what is it like to do and how long would you say to do it./ any pictures.  

Regards  

Bob Harrison  

G-PTAG Kit 337 just ready to install new 914   

   

Robt.C.Harrison  

    	  Quote: 	
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       [quote][b]

mau11(at)free.fr
Guest

Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 9:59 am Post subject: Europa Widen Shoulder width door mod.

Hi  Will,

 I sent  to you the pict with this mod.

 Michel  AUVRAY Builder 145

 F-PFGT  300 hours flight

  	  Quote: 	
		     -----Message d'origine-----

De :    owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com    [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com]De la part de William    Daniell

Envoyé : vendredi 4 mai 2007 13:43

À :    europa-list(at)matronics.com

Objet : RE: Europa Widen    Shoulder width door mod.

      

Has anyone got a pic    of this?   

Will   

             

   

From:    owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com    [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of R.C.Harrison

Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007    13:44

To:    europa-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Europa Widen    Shoulder width door mod.

   

    

Hi! All       

Has anyone done the widen shoulder    width mod.to door and sill? Is there a door insert available ? or    “splash”   

I’d be obliged for anyone who has    done it to advise a little about it ?  what is it like to do and how long    would you say to do it./ any pictures.   

Regards   

Bob    Harrison   

G-PTAG Kit 337 just ready to    install new 914    

    

Robt.C.Harrison   

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sidsel.svein(at)oslo.onli
Guest

Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 10:48 am Post subject: Europa Widen Shoulder width door mod.

Will, Bob,

  

 The attached may give you an impression of the  added width - not much in mm/inches, but "it's all a matter of perception" also  in this case - it feels good.  The indent in the door of course matches the  sill.  On the right side you will notice a wider flat under the sill proper  - this is a thin cover of 2 plies of bid covering electric cables (similar  on the left side, covering xponder antenna cable and some el. cables).   Together, this gives a nice area to rest/press your upper arm against.   Even if you do not need it for cables, you might consider adding it to gain the  same benefit (use some foam and cover with bid).

  

 Regards,

 Svein 

 LN-SKJ

  

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dglauser(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 11:07 am Post subject: Europa Widen Shoulder width door mod.

Hey, that's my Europa!



That is not a photo of the door sill mod. That is a photo of the

bubble canopies placed in position. I was trying to decide if I wanted

them or not. I decided I'd rather have the regular windows, but

haven't yet gotten around to advertising. Anyone want to work a deal?



David



On 5/4/07, Michel AUVRAY <mau11(at)free.fr> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 Hi Will,

 I sent to you the pict with this mod.

 Michel AUVRAY Builder 145

 F-PFGT 300 hours flight

 -----Message d'origine-----

 De : owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com

 [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com]De la part

 de William Daniell

 Envoyé : vendredi 4 mai 2007 13:43

 À : europa-list(at)matronics.com

 Objet : RE: Europa Widen Shoulder width door mod.



 Has anyone got a pic of this?



 Will

 ________________________________

 From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com

 [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf

 Of R.C.Harrison

 Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 13:44

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Europa Widen Shoulder width door mod.



 Hi! All



 Has anyone done the widen shoulder width mod.to door and sill? Is there a

 door insert available ? or "splash"



 I'd be obliged for anyone who has done it to advise a little about it ?

 what is it like to do and how long would you say to do it./ any pictures.



 Regards



 Bob Harrison



 G-PTAG Kit 337 just ready to install new 914



 Robt.C.Harrison




	


href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com



 	  Quote:

jimpuglise(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 12:15 pm Post subject: Europa Widen Shoulder width door mod.

David (or anyone else out there)

 If you are talking about a set of windows, I need them.  I am one of the guys the old Europa shorted and they are quite expensive from LP Aero.  There was a set of right and left plus an extra right at Lakeland but someone had the set of two by the time I got there.  The other right hand window, which was labeled "Europa" is 3 inches too short.  Luckily it was only $ 15.  

 If anyone has a good set, let me know.

 Jim Puglise A-283

 [quote]-------------- Original message -------------- 

From: "David Glauser" <dglauser(at)gmail.com> 

[quote] --> Europa-List message posted by: "David Glauser" 

 Hey, that's my Europa! 

 That is not a photo of the door sill mod. That is a photo of the 

 bubble canopies placed in position. I was trying to decide if I wanted 

 them or not. I decided I'd rather have the regular windows, but 

 haven't yet gotten around to advertising. Anyone want to work a deal? 

 David 

 On 5/4/07, Michel AUVRAY wrote: 

 > 

 > Hi Will, 

 > I sent to you the pict with this mod. 

 > Michel AUVRAY Builder 145 

 > F-PFGT 300 hours flight 

 > -----Message d'origine----- 

 > De : owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com >  > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com]De la part 

 > de William Daniell 

 > Envoyé : vendredi 4 mai 2007 13:43 

 > À : europa-list(at)matronics.com 

 > Objet : RE: Europa Widen Shoulder width door mod. 

 > 

 > 

 > 

 > Has anyone got a pic of this? 

 > 

 > Will 

 > 

 > 

 > ________________________________ 

 > 

 > 

 > From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com 

 > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf 

 > Of R.C.Harrison 

 > Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 13:44 

 > To: europa-list(at)matronics.com 

 > Subject: Europa Widen Shoulder width door mod. 

 > 

 > 

 > 

 > Hi! All 

 > 

 > Has anyone done the widen shoulder width mod.to door and sill? Is there a 

   >   ator t  [quote][b]

gregoryf.flyboy(at)comcas
Guest

Posted: Sat May 05, 2007 10:52 pm Post subject: Europa Widen Shoulder width door mod.

Due to the increase in the fuselage/door mod width, has anyone seen a drop

in airspeed? Or is the change not enough to make a difference?



Obviously, the pro's are a wider cockpit which will make the shoulders

happy, and hence the passengers and pilots too. Also, maybe there might be

less rubbing on the window.



What are the cons?



Greg Fuchs (A050)

sidsel.svein(at)oslo.onli
Guest

Posted: Sat May 05, 2007 11:14 pm Post subject: Europa Widen Shoulder width door mod.

Greg,



You may mix to different mods - the bubble windows (to give more head 

clearance for tall pilots, and which I believe must be implemented when 

ordering the kit - cannot be retrofitted?) and the door width mod (to give 

more internal lateral space.



This latter mod affects only the interior of the aircraft, it does not 

change anything on the outside (as the bubble windows do).  The interior mod 

does not affect the windows, it is only the lower part of the door that is 

made thinner and the lower door sill is made more narrow.



Svein

LN-SKJ

---

dglauser(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 11:19 am Post subject: Europa Widen Shoulder width door mod.

The bubble windows are a straight replacement for the original windows

and fit in the standard doors and fuselage. I believe that you're

right in that the three available size-increasing mods (door sills,

bubble canopies, and raised top) are all independent and can be

compined in any combination.



dg



On 5/6/07, Sidsel & Svein Johnsen <sidsel.svein(at)oslo.online.no> wrote:

[quote] 



 Greg,



 You may mix to different mods - the bubble windows (to give more head

 clearance for tall pilots, and which I believe must be implemented when

 ordering the kit - cannot be retrofitted?) and the door width mod (to give

 more internal lateral space.



 This latter mod affects only the interior of the aircraft, it does not

 change anything on the outside (as the bubble windows do).  The interior mod

 does not affect the windows, it is only the lower part of the door that is

 made thinner and the lower door sill is made more narrow.



 Svein

 LN-SKJ

 ---

gregoryf.flyboy(at)comcas
Guest

Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 10:56 pm Post subject: Europa Widen Shoulder width door mod.

Ok, so I will make a guess at this (a few pros and cons, based on the

responses so far)...



The bubble windows are for tall pilots, and are very easy to install, but

may have a negative affect on the airspeed, due to the way it pokes outside

the circumference of the aircraft. It would be a good choice for someone,

where speed is not of the essence, and limited time spent on the mod is.



The door sill mod increases the shoulder space of the Europa (by 1.2"),

requires a bunch of work, but does not affect the cruise speed of the craft.



The raised top method increases the height of the fuselage top, again for

tall pilots. It needs to be implemented during the build of the craft, and

will raise the forward upper part of the fuselage, and not the very rear of

the upper fuselage. It requires a bunch of work, and I must believe that

because of the increase of the frontal forward surface area of the craft

(that the air stream will see), that it will affect the cruise speed by some

extent. Probably to a much smaller extent than the bubble windows, due to a

retaining of the original sleek upper fuselage contour of the Europa.

Possibly the effect might be negligible.



Anyone see something I am grossly missing? 



More importantly, are there any real world results that confirm any of this

speculation?



It would be nice to have a more complete grasp of the advantages and

disadvantages for the above modifications.

ami(at)mcfadyean.freeserv
Guest

Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 12:34 am Post subject: Europa Widen Shoulder width door mod.

Gregory,

Re. the shoulder width mod., it is not possible to sit that close to the 

door if you are already sitting as high as possible in the fuselage (as you 

need to be for good vis.), because the curvature of the door window against 

your head prevents moving any further outboard. Unless you have broad 

shoulders and/or a long neck, the mod may not be that relevant.



However, many have reported that they are no longer conscious of the door 

frame contacting the side of the upper arm; but this is not something that 

I've noticed personally.



The point being that the mod may not be for everyone.



Duncan McF.

---

gregoryf.flyboy(at)comcas
Guest

Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 11:18 am Post subject: Europa Widen Shoulder width door mod.

Thankyou Svein, Duncan, and all responders to this question-



It helps to know the difference between the mods.



Hopefully, someone will someday submit real-world airspeed effects of the

mods. It is a tough consideration, unless the mod was added after the plane

already flew, and stats gathered. 



Greg Fuchs 

A050 



--

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