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Switch confusion

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CBarber(at)TexasAttorney.
Guest

Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 5:27 pm Post subject: Switch confusion

Maybe I read it and now am forgetting (and now  can't find it), but on the Z-14 drawings the two contactor switches that are  called out are three position switches.  Why?  What are the middle  positions suppossed to be used for?  What position should be used during  flight?  I got my Z-14 layout cranking my engine today (my 46th birthday  <g> ) and I was tickled to have my Wankle rotary churning over  effortlessly (just cranking, not yet ready for starting).  However, in my  use, swithing the switches all the way up seemed to be what activated the  contactors allowing the cranking.  Insight to what may be obvious is  appreciated.  TIA.

  

 All the best,

  

 Chris

   [quote][b]

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Peter H

Joined: 20 Mar 2007
Posts: 197

Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 8:06 pm Post subject: Switch confusion

Chris off topic . Which Wankel are you using. I ran the Norton 95HP rotary for 3 years.  

Peter  

         

  

From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Barber

 Sent: Wednesday, 9 May 2007 11:26 AM

 To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Switch confusion  

  

     

Maybe I read it and now am forgetting (and now can't find it), but on the Z-14 drawings the two contactor switches that are called out are three position switches.  Why?  What are the middle positions suppossed to be used for?  What position should be used during flight?  I got my Z-14 layout cranking my engine today (my 46th birthday <g> ) and I was tickled to have my Wankle rotary churning over effortlessly (just cranking, not yet ready for starting).  However, in my use, swithing the switches all the way up seemed to be what activated the contactors allowing the cranking.  Insight to what may be obvious is appreciated.  TIA.  

    

   

    

All the best,  

    

   

    

Chris  

   	  Quote: 	
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        [quote][b]

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nuckollsr(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 7:12 am Post subject: Switch confusion

At 08:26 PM 5/8/2007 -0500, you wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  Maybe I read it and now am forgetting (and now can't find it), but on the 

Z-14 drawings the two contactor switches that are called out are three 

position switches.  Why?  What are the middle positions suppossed to be 

used for?  What position should be used during flight?  I got my Z-14 

layout cranking my engine today (my 46th birthday <g> ) and I was tickled 

to have my Wankle rotary churning over effortlessly (just cranking, not 

yet ready for starting).  However, in my use, swithing the switches all 

the way up seemed to be what activated the contactors allowing the 

cranking.  Insight to what may be obvious is appreciated.  TIA.


	


A Back in the "good 'ol days" when airplanes were getting their first 

generators, batteries

and a few lights, the battery master and generator control switches could 

be and were separate

switches. This is because a generator will start and run by itself whether 

or not a battery was on

line to go with it. When alternators came along, they needed (and still do 

need) a battery to get

them to come up reliably. Further, alternators do not run well without a 

battery on line. None the

less, it was desirable to have some degree of independent control of the 

battery and alternator

insofar as system performance requirements would permit. This is when the 

split-rocker master

switch was conceived. This switch has acquired almost magical attributes . 

. . I've seen the

red-rocker enshrined in prominent locations on the panels of many 

homebuilts even when all

other switches were a different style.



A little study of the split rocker shows us that the battery can be on by 

itself, but the

alternator cannot. The same functionality is provided by our DP3T, on-on-on 

toggle switch

(S700-2-10). Lower position is ALL OFF, mid position is BAT ONLY, upper 

position is

BAT+ALT. It's true that you could replace the S700-2-10 with an S700-2-3 

and turn on BOTH

devices with a single throw of the DC master switch. It's a rare in-flight 

condition that the

alternator NEEDS to be off. If you're doing some battery-only ground 

maintenance, then you

could pull the breaker. We recommend the S700-2-10 as an alternative to the 

split-rocker

switch to provide equivalent functionality. The three positions offer ALL 

OFF, BATTERY

ONLY, and BATTERY + ALTERNATOR functionality while making sure that the 

alternator is

not allowed to be ON when the battery is OFF - I.e. emulation of the split 

rocker

switch.



Bob . . .

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CBarber(at)TexasAttorney.
Guest

Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 2:24 pm Post subject: Switch confusion

A Mazda second gen 13b (89 - 91) turbo core (not  currently turboed though).

 [quote]   ---

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CBarber(at)TexasAttorney.
Guest

Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 2:39 pm Post subject: Switch confusion

Thanks Bob, that makes sense.



We look forward to  you being down here in October.  Of course, I will have

made my mistakes by then <g>.



All the best,



Chris Barber, President

EAA Houston; Chapter 12



---

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plevyakh

Joined: 10 Jan 2011
Posts: 39

Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 6:02 am Post subject: Re: Switch confusion (S700-2-10 or S700-2-3)

Folks,

In studying the various Z Architecture diagrams, I notice in some cases the S700-2-3 switch is used and in others the S700-2-10 is used.  I understand the functionality differences.



Can anyone tell me if there are operational reasons for using an S700-2-10 switch over the S700-2-3 switch?   Or vice versa?  

S700-2-3 = OFF / BATT + ALT ON

S700-2-10 = OFF / BATT ON / BATT + ALT ON



Right now I have the S700-2-3 switch in my design with the ALT FLD 5A breaker to .   I have a B&C L60amp primary alternator, with LR3C-14 Voltage regulator.   I also have the SD-8 amp as my backup alternator.   



Thanks,

Howard



 	  nuckollsr(at)cox.net wrote: 	
		  At 08:26 PM 5/8/2007 -0500, you wrote:



A Back in the "good 'ol days" when airplanes were getting their first 

generators, batteries and a few lights, the battery master and generator control switches could be and were separate switches. This is because a generator will start and run by itself whether or not a battery was on

line to go with it. When alternators came along, they needed (and still do 

need) a battery to get them to come up reliably. Further, alternators do not run well without a battery on line. None the less, it was desirable to have some degree of independent control of the battery and alternator

insofar as system performance requirements would permit. This is when the 

split-rocker master switch was conceived. This switch has acquired almost magical attributes. 

. . I've seen the red-rocker enshrined in prominent locations on the panels of many homebuilts even when all other switches were a different style.



A little study of the split rocker shows us that the battery can be on by 

itself, but the alternator cannot. The same functionality is provided by our DP3T, on-on-on toggle switch (S700-2-10). Lower position is ALL OFF, mid position is BAT ONLY, upper position is BAT+ALT. It's true that you could replace the S700-2-10 with an S700-2-3 and turn on BOTH devices with a single throw of the DC master switch. It's a rare in-flight condition that the

alternator NEEDS to be off. If you're doing some battery-only ground maintenance, then you could pull the breaker. We recommend the S700-2-10 as an alternative to the split-rocker switch to provide equivalent functionality. The three positions offer ALL OFF, BATTERY ONLY, and BATTERY + ALTERNATOR functionality while making sure that the alternator is not allowed to be ON when the battery is OFF - I.e. emulation of the split rocker

switch.



Bob . . .

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_________________
Howard Plevyak
GlaStar / Cincinnati, Ohio

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:26 am Post subject: Switch confusion

At 09:02 AM 9/26/2012, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



Folks,

In studying the various Z Architecture diagrams, I notice in some 

cases the S700-2-3 switch is used and in others the S700-2-10 is 

used.  I understand the functionality differences.



Can anyone tell me if there are operational reasons for using an 

S700-2-10 switch over the S700-2-3 switch?   Or vice versa?


	


  2-10 is progressive transfer that emulates the split-rocker

  functionality. If you use 2-3 switch, then alternator

  and battery come on and off together, alternator can only

  be turned off by pulling the field breaker.



  Either works.

   Bob . . .

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