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601 Crash
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Tom

Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 12

Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 6:44 am Post subject: 601 Crash

Noticed a 601 in the NTSB data base.

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20070509X00539&key=1

_________________
Tom CH801
http://tompizza.webhop.net

Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 8:43 am Post subject: Re: 601 Crash

News reports on the accident. Identify the owner. Not a name from the list I'm familiar with.



http://www.woodwardnews.net/homepage/local_story_123090303.html

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

Tim Juhl

Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 488
Location: "Thumb" of Michigan

Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 9:09 am Post subject: Re: 601 Crash

Here we go again.....  another XL that came apart in the air.  Apparently there was nasty weather in the area and one might speculate that the pilot flew into conditions that resulted in the destructive overstress of the aircraft.  I found a link to a local newspaper account that provides a little info but no answers.



http://www.woodwardnews.net/archivesearch/local_story_123090303.html



With all due respect to Zenith and Chris Heintz, as an XL builder I cannot help but want to know why such things are happening.  This is the third XL to lose it's wings since Feb 06.



Tim

_________________
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Almost done! It'll fly in spring!

gfmjr_20(at)HOTMAIL.COM
Guest

Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 9:17 am Post subject: 601 Crash

This is getting scary.  Isn't this the third plane that had the wings fold 

back or fall off?!



do not archive



George May

601XL  912s--73 hours

 	  Quote: 	
		  From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>

Reply-To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com

To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: 601 Crash

Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 09:43:17 -0700




<wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>



News reports on the accident. Identify the owner. Not a name from the list 

I'm familiar with.



http://www.woodwardnews.net/homepage/local_story_123090303.html



--------

W.R. &quot;Gig&quot; Giacona

601XL Under Construction

See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=112044#112044






	


_________________________________________________________________

Catch suspicious messages before you open them—with Windows Live Hotmail.

steveadams

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 191

Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 9:27 am Post subject: Re: 601 Crash

 	  Tim Juhl wrote: 	
		  Here we go again.....  another XL that came apart in the air.  Apparently there was nasty weather in the area and one might speculate that the pilot flew into conditions that resulted in the destructive overstress of the aircraft.  I found a link to a local newspaper account that provides a little info but no answers.



http://www.woodwardnews.net/archivesearch/local_story_123090303.html



With all due respect to Zenith and Chris Heintz, as an XL builder I cannot help but want to know why such things are happening.  This is the third XL to lose it's wings since Feb 06.



Tim 	




Before we get all bent out of shape, this sounds like a typical outcome of a pilot loosing control in IMC conditions and subsequently overstressing the airframe. Visibility 2 statute miles, heavy rain, scattered clouds 200 feet, broken clouds 800 feet, overcast clouds 2,000 feet... not the ideal conditions for sport pilot operations. The same thing happens in Cessnas, Pipers, Cirrus, and Beech aircraft.

Last edited by steveadams on Thu May 10, 2007 9:30 am; edited 1 time in total

johnd(at)data-tech.com
Guest

Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 9:28 am Post subject: 601 Crash

I'm familiar with the accident in CA in which the wings separated (the 

Hooker Zodiac) but what is the other accident thats being referred to ? 

I cant seem to locate any other fatal accidents with wing separation in 

the ntsb database.



Thanks,

John Davis

Burnsville, NC

601XL Quickbuild



george may wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 This is getting scary. Isn't this the third plane that had the wings 

 fold back or fall off?!



 do not archive



 George May

 601XL 912s--73 hours

> From: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>

> Reply-To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com

> To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com

> Subject: Re: 601 Crash

> Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 09:43:17 -0700

>

> 

> <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net>

>

> News reports on the accident. Identify the owner. Not a name from the 

> list I'm familiar with.

>

> http://www.woodwardnews.net/homepage/local_story_123090303.html

>

> --------

> W.R. &quot;Gig&quot; Giacona

> 601XL Under Construction

> See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

>

>

> Read this topic online here:

>

> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=112044#112044

>

>



 _________________________________________________________________

 Catch suspicious messages before you open them—with Windows Live Hotmail.

Flydog1966(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 9:31 am Post subject: 601 Crash

Re-fresh my memory. I remember a Zenith with a spectacular break up in  California(?),something about drugs in the pilot,really large debris field. Was  that an 601,or 801 ? do not archive.



See what's free at AOL.com. 

  [quote][b]

johnd(at)data-tech.com
Guest

Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 9:48 am Post subject: 601 Crash

It was a 601, no drugs, newly purchased plane, . Report at [url=http://ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id 060217X00209&key=1]http://ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id 060217X00209&key=1[/url]

 

 do not archive

 

 Flydog1966(at)aol.com (Flydog1966(at)aol.com) wrote: [quote]            Re-fresh my memory. I remember a Zenith with a spectacular break up in California(?),something about drugs in the pilot,really large debris field. Was that an 601,or 801 ? do not archive.

   

   

   

      See what's free at AOL.com.   

    	  Quote: 	
		  

	
 [b]

amyvega2005(at)earthlink.
Guest

Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 10:10 am Post subject: 601 Crash

is that N701DP? paint on cowl looks like 701DPs from AMD.



--

amyvega2005(at)earthlink.
Guest

Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 10:12 am Post subject: 601 Crash

never mind 701DP is registered to Dayton Pilot's club, different owner.  WHo is it?



--

amyvega2005(at)earthlink.
Guest

Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 10:18 am Post subject: 601 Crash

it was a kit built with continental motor, based in oklahoma.  registered 2005.



--

bill_dom(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 10:26 am Post subject: 601 Crash

The accident where drugs where found in the pilot was another inflight  breakup in an 801. The other inflight breakup happen to another 601XL  in Yuba city California. The first case was a 601XL where the wing  folded up and crash, also in California. 

  

  William Dominguez

  Zodiac 601XL Plans

  Miami, Florida



Flydog1966(at)aol.com wrote:[quote]          Re-fresh my memory. I remember a Zenith with a spectacular break up in   California(?),something about drugs in the pilot,really large debris field. Was   that an 601,or 801 ? do not archive.

p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att
Guest

Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 10:35 am Post subject: 601 Crash

Hi George,



Yes, it is certainly scaring me.  I am expecting to do my first 

flight in a few months (maybe early next spring).  I seem to remember 

reports of 4 structural failures in the last year or so, but it might 

be only 3.



I wrote to ZAC asking if they are working on any design changes to 

beef up the structure.  I also wrote to the advisors at EAA to ask if 

this is normal for kit planes or cause for alarm.



If I get any interesting answers I will post them to the list.



Paul

XL fuselage

do not archive



At 10:17 AM 5/10/2007, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



This is getting scary.  Isn't this the third plane that had the 

wings fold back or fall off?!



do not archive



George May

601XL  912s--73 hours

Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 10:39 am Post subject: Re: 601 Crash

The question I have is who built the aircraft. The NTSB report states "Walker Zodiac" and Walker was not the owner/pilot's name.



It's clearly VFR flight into IMC. Do LSA certificated pilots do any of the hood time that PP do?

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

PatrickW

Joined: 27 Oct 2006
Posts: 380
Location: Fort Worth, Texas

Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 11:22 am Post subject: Re: 601 Crash

Mr Walker must have been the original builder.



Looking at the weather reports in the area - particularly the dramatic changes in wind direction at that time leads me to suspect convective activity.



Has anyone learned anything more about any of these most recent accidents...?  



Patrick

601XL / Corvair

ter_turn(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 12:14 pm Post subject: 601 Crash

Unless a crash investigation proves otherwise, I'm going to consider beefing up the rear wing attachment points with a heavier doubler and larger bolt before assembly. Wouldn't hurt.

   

  Terry Turnquist

  601 XL-Plans

  St. Peters, MO



PatrickW <pwhoyt(at)yahoo.com> wrote:

  [quote]--> Zenith-List message posted by: "PatrickW" 



Mr Walker must have been the original builder.



Looking at the weather reports in the area - particularly the dramatic changes in wind direction at that time leads me to suspect convective activity.



Has anyone learned anything more about any of these most recent accidents...? 



Patrick

601XL / Corvair





Read this topic online  Don't be flakey. [url=http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=43909/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail]Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile[/url] and 

[url=http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=43909/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail]always stay connected[/url] to friends. [quote][b]

paulried(at)rogers.com
Guest

Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 12:47 pm Post subject: 601 Crash

Actually it might hurt.   All designs have certain flexibility designed into them.  By stiffening things up you might just be making it worse.  

   

Having said that, I am not an aero-engineer but I do let those that are make any mods to major parts of my plane.  

   

   

   

Paul Riedlinger  

paulried(at)rogers.com  

     

From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Terry Turnquist

 Sent: May-10-07 4:14 PM

 To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Re: 601 Crash  

  

     

Unless a crash investigation proves otherwise, I'm going to consider beefing up the rear wing attachment points with a heavier doubler and larger bolt before assembly. Wouldn't hurt.  

    

   

    

Terry Turnquist  

    

601 XL-Plans  

    

St. Peters, MO

 

 PatrickW <pwhoyt(at)yahoo.com> wrote:  

  [quote]  

--> Zenith-List message posted by: "PatrickW" 

 

 Mr Walker must have been the original builder.

 

 Looking at the weather reports in the area - particularly the dramatic changes in wind direction at that time leads me to suspect convective activity.

 

 Has anyone learned anything more about any of these most recent accidents...? 

 

 Patrick

 601XL / Corvair

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online       

  

Don't be flakey. [url=http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=43909/*http:/mobile.yahoo.com/mail]Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile[/url] and 

 [url=http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=43909/*http:/mobile.yahoo.com/mail]always stay connected[/url] to friends.    	  Quote: 	
		    http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List 	
0 	  Quote: 	
		   	
1 	  Quote: 	
		   	
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4[b]

Kevin Bonds

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 171
Location: Nashville, Tn

Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 12:52 pm Post subject: 601 Crash

Yeah, this is getting scary. We really need a better system for keeping up

with accidents. We really need to lobby these FAA investigators to take

photos of critical components in these accidents and allow them to be

viewed. We need to know if the bolts were in tact etc. How can we get this

done? I may go talk to my local office tomorrow to see what I can find out.

We need more info. Even the final FAA reports, are not very concise.



Kevin Bonds



Nashville TN

601XL Plans building.

http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds



 



do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE 



 

--

_________________
KevinBonds
Nashville, TN
Plans-building Zenith CH601XL w/Corvair Power
http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds

Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 1:03 pm Post subject: Re: 601 Crash

While that doesn't sound like a bad idea I would run the modification by Zenith first. Making a bigger hole for a bigger bolt might create problems of its own. I'd sure like to hear their response as I'm sure other here would.



Let's look as the facts as we know them. A low time LSA pilot flew the aircraft in IMC. That is a situation that will end in a crash more often than not.



And an admittedly quick look at the LSA PTS does not show any required hood time. So for LSA marginal VFR should be considered IFR.



 	  ter_turn(at)yahoo.com wrote: 	
		  Unless a crash investigation proves otherwise, I'm going to consider beefing up the rear wing attachment points with a heavier doubler and larger bolt before assembly. Wouldn't hurt.

   

  Terry Turnquist

  601 XL-Plans

  St. Peters, MO

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

swater6

Joined: 16 Dec 2006
Posts: 52
Location: Minnesota-KMIC/KANE

Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 1:20 pm Post subject: Re: 601 Crash

STOP!!!    This is an ufortunate crash but before we start altering the design and/or questioning it, look at the facts.   Read the NTSB initial report.  How high do you think an aircraft would need to be to spread parts 1/4 mile apart?  Greater than the 800ft clouds I'll bet.  This guy was flying in IMC with heavy rain on Sport Pilot skills in a non IFR craft.  



It wouldn't take much in IMC to roll a plane over and exceed VNE and over stress the structure.  Not to mention if there was convective turbulance.  



Look what happened to Scott Crossfield when his Cessna broke up in IMC.  It can happen to a certified airplane and can certianly happen to a 600lb homebuilt.    It's sad but, please don't rush to conclusions about your aircraft.

_________________
601 XL kit N596SW reserved
Tail, control surfaces and both wings complete. Now working on fuselage

www.scottwaters.com

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