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bcross2160(at)rogers.com
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 Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 6:30 pm Post subject: Sam James Wheel Pants |
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Hi Folks
I am in the process of ordering my finishing kit from Vans. I think
my only outstanding question is in regard to whose wheel pants to
use. I have read emails from you a few people that indicate that the
Sam James wheel pants have reduced drag so more speed or better
economy can be realized.
I guess I am wondering if this is so, why you don't see more of them
on all the RVs I have seen. Are they more difficult to install? Do
the majority of people believe they are a worthwhile upgrade?
Your facts & opinions are greatly appreciated!
Thanks in advance.
Brian Cross RV-8 #81844
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kboatright1(at)comcast.ne
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 6:55 pm Post subject: Sam James Wheel Pants |
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I have the SJ wheelpants. They were the only two piece "pressure recovery"
pants offered when I built my airplane. Back then, all you got was a set of
directions and two tuna shaped wheelpants. No brackets, no pre-made cutouts,
nothing except the pants themselves.
I *believe* Van's sells a more complete product for about the same $$, and
convenience sells.
As far as performance differences go, I've never seen a head to head
comparison between Van's current pants and the James pants.
Something else to consider is that the geometry of the James pants makes it
harder to get the recommended tire to wheelpant clearance around the
cutout..
Kyle Boatright
RV-6 N46KB
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Mark Phillips in TN
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 431
Location: Columbia, TN
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 9:51 pm Post subject: Sam James Wheel Pants |
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In a message dated 5/11/2007 9:31:48 PM Central Daylight Time, bcross2160(at)rogers.com writes:
| Quote: | | Your facts & opinions are greatly appreciated! |
>>>
Awright- you asked! It has been reported not only here on the list for many years, but also from quite a few folks I have talked to that the wheelpants on an RV are mostly decorative- look nice but unintuitively do little to reduce drag. Most builders report that the primary speed improvement from f&glass comes from the gear leg fairings themselves, with little added speed increase after adding the pants. In my case, I saw about 9 mph increase with just the main leg fairings installed & perhaps another 2 mph increase from Van's pressure recovery pants, so if they appeal to your sense of esthetics more than Vans, I'd highly recommend them! Either way you go, f&glass is a pain in the a$$...
Disclaimer: I haven't worn SJ pants, but I'm also an advocate of caveat emptor...
Mark Phillips - RV-6A "Mojo" 400+ hrs and climbing
http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/
See what's free at AOL.com.
[quote][b]
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khorton01(at)rogers.com
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| Posted: Sat May 12, 2007 2:26 am Post subject: Sam James Wheel Pants |
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The last time this was discussed, Dick Martin said:
Barry,
I had Vans pants installed and flying first. I fitted Sam James
pants and flew them. Inorder to determine the performance, which
appeared to be faster, I reinstalled Vans pants and flew them and
then removed them and flew the Sam James pants an hour later. The
James pants were approx 5 knot faster +/- l knot..
Dick Martin
RV8 N233M
On 11 May 2007, at 22:51, Kyle Boatright wrote:
[quote]
<kboatright1(at)comcast.net>
I have the SJ wheelpants. They were the only two piece "pressure
recovery" pants offered when I built my airplane. Back then, all
you got was a set of directions and two tuna shaped wheelpants. No
brackets, no pre-made cutouts, nothing except the pants themselves.
I *believe* Van's sells a more complete product for about the same $
$, and convenience sells.
As far as performance differences go, I've never seen a head to
head comparison between Van's current pants and the James pants.
Something else to consider is that the geometry of the James pants
makes it harder to get the recommended tire to wheelpant clearance
around the cutout..
Kyle Boatright
RV-6 N46KB
---
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gmcjetpilot
Joined: 04 Nov 2006
Posts: 170
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| Posted: Sat May 12, 2007 3:22 am Post subject: Sam James Wheel Pants |
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I think IMHO your 9mph for gear leg sounds high and 2 mph
sounds low for wheel pants (pressure recovery type, right?),
but fine, I don't want to debate that. But...............
Think about this, you got 2 mph more at basically 9 mph faster,
which is harder to do. In other words if you put the wheel pants
on first along you might have got 3 or 4 mph more. Lets say its
harder going from 189 to 191 mph than 180 to 182 mph.
Its pretty easy to research the web for the gain the fairings give,
but there is no doubt the wheel pants are not decorative at 200
mph. I agree legs probably do get you a little more wheel fairings .
Van's test and writing showed he gained several MPH over the
old wheel pants he offered about 8 or so years ago verses the
current PR wheel fairing? So there is gain with PR wheel fairings.
Sam James should be same or slightly better than Vans' PR.
SJ does not make claims, but I like the look better for a tail
dragger. If trike go with vans, since it matches nose fairing.
Also lack of performance gain may be from from not putting them
on properly. Not saying that is the case, just that alignment and
excessive gaps can cause the gain to be minimized. I saw your
workmanship Mark, excellent so that is not the case, just saying.
Cheers George
Time: 10:51:41 PM PST US
From: Fiveonepw(at)aol.com (Fiveonepw(at)aol.com)
Subject: Re: Sam James Wheel Pants
Awright- you asked! It has been reported not only here on the list for
many years, but also from quite a few folks I have talked to that the
wheelpants on an RV are mostly decorative- look nice but unintuitively
do little to reduce drag. Most builders report that the primary speed
improvement from f&glass comes from the gear leg fairings themselves,
with little added speed increase after adding the pants. In my case, I
saw about 9 mph increase with just the main leg fairings installed &
perhaps another 2 mph increase from Van's pressure recovery pants,
so if they appeal to your sense of esthetics more than Vans, I'd highly
recommend them! Either way you go, f&glass is a pain in the
a$$...
Disclaimer: I haven't worn SJ pants, but I'm also an advocate of caveat
emptor...
Mark Phillips - RV-6A "Mojo" 400+ hrs and climbing
_http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/_
(http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/)
Looking for a deal? [url=http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=47094/*http://farechase.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTFicDJoNDllBF9TAzk3NDA3NTg5BHBvcwMxMwRzZWMDZ3JvdXBzBHNsawNlbWFpbC1uY20-]Find great prices on flights and hotels[/url] with Yahoo! FareChase. [quote][b]
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Mark Phillips in TN
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 431
Location: Columbia, TN
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| Posted: Sat May 12, 2007 11:05 pm Post subject: Sam James Wheel Pants |
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In a message dated 5/12/2007 6:24:40 AM Central Daylight Time, gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com writes:
| Quote: | Also lack of performance gain may be from from not putting them
on properly. Not saying that is the case, just that alignment and
excessive gaps can cause the gain to be minimized. I saw your
workmanship Mark, excellent so that is not the case, just saying.
|
>>>
I appreciate the compliment, but my experience is only that- it is my sincere hope that one day we can go eyeball to eyeball to resolve some long history. All education only moves us forward...
Most respectfully,
Mark & do not archive
See what's free at AOL.com.
[quote][b]
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From The PossumWorks... |
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