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KitFox IV wing questions

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Don G

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 156
Location: Central Illinois

Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 11:05 am Post subject: KitFox IV wing questions

Hi Gents, 

Greetings from the other "K" list...

I am considering a buying a model 4 speedster, 80 hp, with a JBS serial number and I have just finished a couple of hours scanning the archives here. Unfortunatly, instead of getting the answers I wanted, I just got more questions. Mostly because I now realize how little I know about the different varities of Kitfox's. I have come across referances to riblett airfoils and laminar flow airfoils...speedster wings and such.

My 1st question is can anyone explain to me what the different wings have been over the years?



Is the speedster wing a flat bottom?...or concave like the others?

were the older wings of the series 3 and prior flat bottom as well?

What wing is the "Riblett"?

Which the laminar?



What changes were made to acomplish the upgrade in GW from 1050 to 1200 in the series 4?



in regards to the mention of "airfoiled tail surfaces"

when did this happen as standard?

are both the vertical and horizontal "airfoiled"?

did this give a great advantage?



Any website where this data has been arranged accordingly?

I found nothing on the new Kitfox site referring to the details...only a brief history.



Also, I saw a remarkable video of Jimmy Frankiln doing an aerobatic routine at OshKosh several years ago in a series 4 speedster 80hp.

Can anyone tell me if that was a modified airframe? 



thx!

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_________________
Don G.
Central Illinois
Kitfox IV Speedster
Luscombe 8A
RV9A

av8rps(at)tznet.com
Guest

Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 2:48 pm Post subject: KitFox IV wing questions

Don,



Here are some answers to your questions.  I will e-mail you personally with 

copies of documentation that may help explain things better.



Paul Seehafer



 	  Quote: 	
		   My 1st question is can anyone explain to me what the different wings have 

 been over the years?

(Kitfoxes model 1-3 have wings with a lot of undercamber.  Model 4 and newer 
	


have the same basic wing, but Mr Riblett added a leading edge extrusion, a 

set of lower false ribs along the first 33% of the wing chord, and moved the 

flapperons closer to the bottom of the wings trailing edge, while also 

making the flapperon chord considerably wider.  All those changes to the 

original model 3 Kitfox wing designate the model 4 and up kitfox wing as the 

Riblett - laminar flow wing.)



 	  Quote: 	
		   Is the speedster wing a flat bottom?...or concave like the others?

(All true Speedsters were model 4's, and therefore have the less concaved 
	


Riblett Laminar flow wing.  Technically speaking, all Kitfox wings are flat 

bottomed.  But the early models 1-3 are undercambered significantly more 

than the Model 4 and newer.)



 	  Quote: 	
		   What changes were made to acomplish the upgrade in GW from 1050 to 1200 in 

 the series 4?

(I believe there were a lot of changes to tubing sizes in the fuselage as 
	


well as the struts)

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 in regards to the mention of "airfoiled tail surfaces" when did this 

 happen as standard?

(All true speedsters had the airfoiled tail surfaces, as well as chromolly 
	


streamlined horizontal stabilizer struts, jury struts, and a electric trim 

tab on the elevator.  I find those three things the easiest way short of the 

serial number to determine if it is a speedster or not)



 	  Quote: 	
		   are both the vertical and horizontal "airfoiled"? (yes)

 Did this give a great advantage?  (Not really sure.  Some say yes, some 

 no. The company said it improved the handling)



 Any website where this data has been arranged accordingly?(I will forward 

 that direct to your mail once I find it)


	


 	  Quote: 	
		   I found nothing on the new Kitfox site referring to the details...only a 

 brief history.

(I will send you a copy of the kitfox speedster brochure specs.  Make sure 
	


to read the fine print as it explains things pretty well.  But this early 

Speedster brochure shows it at only 1050 pounds, when I believe all 

production speedsters were actually 1200 lb gross weight.



 	  Quote: 	
		  

 Also, I saw a remarkable video of Jimmy Frankiln doing an aerobatic 

 routine at OshKosh several years ago in a series 4 speedster 80hp.

 Can anyone tell me if that was a modified airframe?

(that was a completely stock Speedster flown with a 81 hp 912ul and a GSC 
	


ground adjustable prop)

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 thx!



 --------

 Don G

 FireFly#098



 http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=112780#112780

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Tom Jones

Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 752
Location: Ellensburg, WA

Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 3:01 pm Post subject: Re: KitFox IV wing questions

Don,  there are only two different Kitfox wing designs.  The model 1, 2, and 3 used the under cambered wing.  Starting with the model 4 the wings are the Harry Riblett airfoil.  It is pretty close to flat on the bottom.  To make it a speedster you clip 18 inches off.  It has been refered to as laminar flow.  Avoid that debate like the plague.



It is builders choice on the airfoiled tail surfaces.  Some do all, some do some and some do none.



The IV 1200 airframe has larger tubing than the 1050.  Mostly in the spar carry through tubes in the fuselage.



The kitfox marketing materials of that time period stated the kitfox in the aerobatic video did not have a modified airframe.  They also made a point of recommending you not try this at home.

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_________________
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA

bajtme(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 8:10 am Post subject: KitFox IV wing questions

When you state cut 18" off the wings are you meaning 18" off each wing or??

   

  George



Tom Jones <nahsikhs(at)elltel.net> wrote:

  [quote]--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Tom Jones" 



Don, there are only two different Kitfox wing designs. The model 1, 2, and 3 used the under cambered wing. Starting with the model 4 the wings are the Harry Riblett airfoil. It is pretty close to flat on the bottom. To make it a speedster you clip 18 inches off. It has been refered to as laminar flow. Avoid that debate like the plague.



It is builders choice on the airfoiled tail surfaces. Some do all, some do some and some do none.



The IV 1200 airframe has larger tubing than the 1050. Mostly in the spar carry through tubes in the fuselage.



The kitfox marketing materials of that time [quote][b]

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Tom Jones

Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 752
Location: Ellensburg, WA

Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 8:27 am Post subject: Re: KitFox IV wing questions

 	  Quote: 	
		  When you state cut 18" off the wings are you meaning 18" off each wing or?? 	




18" off each wing which is one rib bay.  The standard (long wing) wing span is 32 ft.  The speedster is 29 ft.

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_________________
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA

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