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Fuel selector valve

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pequeajim

Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 708
Location: New Holland, PA

Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 10:44 am Post subject: Fuel selector valve

I was thinking about using the ANDAIR fuel valve.  I wanted one that would allow me to fly with both tanks selected if I wanted to.

  

 This one that I found at Aircraft Spruce is exactly what I am looking for, but I quote their comment on the site: "The FS20x4 Fuel Selector is designed for high wing aircraft where it is possible to feed from both tanks simultaneously". 

  

 Wil this work if properly ported with the Lightning setup?

  

  

 http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/fs20tYPE4.php

  

  

 Also, I was looking for the smaller aluminum eyeball air vents, MAN!  are they expensive!  I have only gone to Wicks and Aircraft Spruce.  Is there a better place to find this kind of stuff?

  

 Jim!

  [quote][b]

Colin K.

Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Posts: 157
Location: Oklahoma

Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 10:58 am Post subject: Fuel selector valve

Jim,



Someone on this list posted some nice photographs a few weeks back, where he had used 4 aluminium vents from the passenger compartment of a Jumbo Jet!



By my calculation, that means he has about 296 left over. He might be willing to part with them. Unless of course you have a scrapped Jumbo lying about somewhere yourself?





Colin K.

OK

---- Jim Langley <pequeajim(at)gmail.com> wrote: 

 	  Quote: 	
		   I was thinking about using the ANDAIR fuel valve.  I wanted one that would

 allow me to fly with both tanks selected if I wanted to.

 

 This one that I found at Aircraft Spruce is exactly what I am looking for,

 but I quote their comment on the site: "The FS20x4 Fuel Selector is designed

 for high wing aircraft where it is possible to feed from both tanks

 simultaneously".

 

 Wil this work if properly ported with the Lightning setup?

 

 

 http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/fs20tYPE4.php

 

 

 Also, I was looking for the smaller aluminum eyeball air vents, MAN!  are

 they expensive!  I have only gone to Wicks and Aircraft Spruce.  Is there a

 better place to find this kind of stuff?

 

 Jim!

_________________
Colin K.
OK

vettin74(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 2:36 pm Post subject: Fuel selector valve

Jim ...

  the fuel selector will work if it also has a left and a right. This is because you should run either left or right tanks when below half capacity. With the low  wing design the tanks may feed unevenly and when one emptys first the pump will continue to draw air from that tank because it is easier than drawing the fuel and result in fuel starvation. So you should be able to run left or right when getting down on fuel quantity...

   

  Nick



Jim Langley <pequeajim(at)gmail.com> wrote:

  [quote]  

I was thinking about using the ANDAIR fuel valve.  I wanted one that would allow me to fly with both tanks selected if I wanted to.

   

  This one that I found at Aircraft Spruce is exactly what I am looking for, but I quote their comment on the site: "The FS20x4 Fuel       [url=http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48226/*http://new.toolbar.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/norton/index.php]Get the free Yahoo! toolbar[/url] and rest assured with the added security of spyware protection.   [quote][b]

pete(at)flylightning.net
Guest

Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 3:04 pm Post subject: Fuel selector valve

Jim,  

   

You can run off both tanks until one goes empty.  Then you will just suck air from the empty tank.  Engine will run poorly on air alone.  

   

Pete  

         

  

From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Langley

 Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 1:43 PM

 To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Fuel selector valve  

  

     



 I was thinking about using the ANDAIR fuel valve.  I wanted one that would allow me to fly with both tanks selected if I wanted to.  

    

   

    

This one that I found at Aircraft Spruce is exactly what I am looking for, but I quote their comment on the site: "The FS20x4 Fuel Selector is designed for high wing aircraft where it is possible to feed from both tanks simultaneously".   

    

   

    

Wil this work if properly ported with the Lightning setup?  

    

   

    

   

    

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/fs20tYPE4.php  

    

   

    

   

    

Also, I was looking for the smaller aluminum eyeball air vents, MAN!  are they expensive!  I have only gone to Wicks and Aircraft Spruce.  Is there a better place to find this kind of stuff?  

    

   

    

Jim!  

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        [quote][b]

pequeajim

Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 708
Location: New Holland, PA

Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 3:13 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel selector valve

"You can run off both tanks until one goes empty. Then you will just suck air from the empty tank. Engine will run poorly on air alone"



I heard that about aircraft engines...  You would think that Jabiru would make an engine that can run on 100LL, AutoGas AND Air!



hmmmm..



BTW:  I just bought the Jabiru Engine Installation Seminar from HomebuiltHelp.com.  I've viewed about half of it so far; very good.



My wife wanted to know who that stud was who was explaining the operation of the carb?  I told her not to worry about it and to keep sanding!



(just kidding...)

dashvii(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 3:33 pm Post subject: Fuel selector valve

Jim,

  I've had experience with this.  Nick told me to treat it like a Piper and 

just switch every 30 minutes.  The Grand Rapids EFIS also has a built in 

interval alarm where it'll flash a message until you acknowlege it.  Kind of 

nice.  I was flying Rick Bowen's plane and made a touch and go after about 3 

hours of flight.  I turned and the engine kind of choked down.  I thought 

that I had ran out of fuel on the high wing side.  Come to find out it had 

just burned uneven and the low wing had about 1/3 of a tank and was sucking 

air in turning flight.  Of course I followed the old pilot way of "undo 

whatever you did if something goes wrong" and in straight and level it was 

fine.  Using the 30 minute interval I flew up to 3.5 hours at a time without 

any further occurence.  Brian W.

From: "pequeajim" <pequeajim(at)gmail.com>

Reply-To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com

To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Fuel selector valve

Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 16:13:05 -0700






"You can run off both tanks until one goes empty. Then you will just suck 

air from the empty tank. Engine will run poorly on air alone"



I heard that about aircraft engines...  You would think that Jabiru would 

make an engine that can run on 100LL, AutoGas AND Air!



hmmmm..



BTW:  I just bought the Jabiru Engine Installation Seminar from 

HomebuiltHelp.com.  I've viewed about half of it so far; very good.



My wife wanted to know who that stud was who was explaining the operation of 

the carb?





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=114623#114623

_________________________________________________________________

PC Magazine’s 2007 editors’ choice for best Web mail—award-winning Windows 

Live Hotmail.

pilot(at)benjamindsmith.c
Guest

Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 3:51 pm Post subject: Fuel selector valve

On Thursday 24 May 2007, pequeajim wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   "You can run off both tanks until one goes empty. Then you will just suck 

air from the empty tank. Engine will run poorly on air alone"
	




When I went snorkelling, the top end of the snorkel point down towards the 

water (my head) there was a seal and a floatie ball in a cage. When I was up 

for air, the ball would rattle in the cage and let the air thru. 



But when I went under, the ball would rise and plug up the hole so I wouldn't 

have to spit out the water when I came back up. 



Seems to me that you could do something similar by putting a floating ball in 

a cage over the fuel inlet. Add gas, ball floats, fuel flows. Burn gas, fuel 

drops, ball plugs hole. 



Any reason why this isn't done in fuel tanks to prevent accidental "sucking of 

air"? 



Surely the likelyhood of this clogging in the air (rare, if properly designed) 

is much less than the likelyhood of sucking air into the motor? 



// My $0.02 



-Ben 

-- 

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your 

eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long 

to return." 

-- Leonardo da Vinci



-- 

This message has been scanned for viruses and

dangerous content by MailScanner, and is

believed to be clean.

Kayberg(at)AOL.COM
Guest

Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 4:40 pm Post subject: Fuel selector valve

In a message dated 5/24/2007 7:52:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time,  pilot(at)benjamindsmith.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  

When    I went snorkelling, the top end of the snorkel point down towards the    

water (my head) there was a seal and a floatie ball in a cage. When I was    up 

for air, the ball would rattle in the cage and let the air thru.    



But when I went under, the ball would rise and plug up the hole so I    wouldn't 

have to spit out the water when I came back up. 



Seems to    me that you could do something similar by putting a floating ball in 

a    cage over the fuel inlet. Add gas, ball floats, fuel flows. Burn gas, fuel    

drops, ball plugs hole. 



Any reason why this isn't done in fuel    tanks to prevent accidental "sucking of 

air"? 



Surely the    likelyhood of this clogging in the air (rare, if properly designed) 

is    much less than the likelyhood of sucking air into the motor? 



// My    $0.02 



-Ben 

	


 

 Ben,

  

 In my opinion, less is more.

  

 The more crap you put in an airplane to fix something that isnt broke, the  more chances you have to experience unplaned landings.  Adding anything to  a fuel system is just asking for the opportunity to be a part of the statistical  data that shows 80% of the homebuilt crashes are due to fuel problems.

  

 You simply must pay attention to fuel tanks in a Lightning or you will  cease flying.  Knowing you must switch tanks at some point is actually  helpful.   Thousands of Pipers do it all the time.

  

 Doug Koenigsberg



See what's free at AOL.com. 

  [quote][b]

N1BZRich(at)AOL.COM
Guest

Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 5:10 pm Post subject: Fuel selector valve

Jim,

     Nick, Pete, and Doug have answered your fuel valve  question, and I agree totally with what they said.  But let me add that I  think the Andair line of fuel valves is probably the best available.  So I  would definitely recommend your use one of theirs.  

     However, why put a valve with a both position on a  low wing airplane?  What does that do for you other than give you  a potential for a "flame out".  In other words, it add a "trouble  mode" that may or may not bite you.  So, I see no operational reason to  have a both position - certainly not on a low wing airplane.  When I had a  Cessna 170B, I almost never used the both position.  Why, because I wanted  to know where my fuel was (how much and in which tank).  When you feed from  both at the same time, one side will always feed faster and then you are  guessing how much is in which tank because the fuel gauges are  always inaccurate.  We all know that the most accurate fuel gauge is  the one on your wrist.  

     The Lightning fuel gauges are probably better than  most because Pete and Nick have spent the extra money to provide the kits with  the capacitance type of tank quantity measuring system.  They are certainly  more accurate than the float type.  Add to that the ability to put a fuel  flow system on the Jabiru and you have a totally separate back up fuel quantity  system.  The fuel flow system can be calibrated so that your "totalizer" is  very accurate.  

 Blue Skies,

 Buz

  

 PS:  Just thought of another point about not using the both  position.  By burning from either left or right tanks (not both) you can  control your aircraft balance in roll.  If you are flying alone (like most  of the time) then you can burn from the left tank first and keep that side a few  gallons below the right to keep the aircraft balanced in  roll.



See what's free at AOL.com. 

  [quote][b]

pequeajim

Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 708
Location: New Holland, PA

Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 5:43 pm Post subject: Fuel selector valve

Thanks guys for the explanation of why not both.  I guess flying a 172 all the time, I have always flown with the selector in the both position because that is what the instructor tells you to do.  It makes sense what you are saying and I will look for the same valve with left-right-off positions.  

   

   

         

  

From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of N1BZRich(at)aol.com

 Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 9:10 PM

 To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Fuel selector valve  

  

     

Jim,  

    

    Nick, Pete, and Doug have answered your fuel valve question, and I agree totally with what they said.  But let me add that I think the Andair line of fuel valves is probably the best available.  So I would definitely recommend your use one of theirs.    

    

    However, why put a valve with a both position on a low wing airplane?  What does that do for you other than give you a potential for a "flame out".  In other words, it add a "trouble mode" that may or may not bite you.  So, I see no operational reason to have a both position - certainly not on a low wing airplane.  When I had a Cessna 170B, I almost never used the both position.  Why, because I wanted to know where my fuel was (how much and in which tank).  When you feed from both at the same time, one side will always feed faster and then you are guessing how much is in which tank because the fuel gauges are always inaccurate.  We all know that the most accurate fuel gauge is the one on your wrist.    

    

    The Lightning fuel gauges are probably better than most because Pete and Nick have spent the extra money to provide the kits with the capacitance type of tank quantity measuring system.  They are certainly more accurate than the float type.  Add to that the ability to put a fuel flow system on the Jabiru and you have a totally separate back up fuel quantity system.  The fuel flow system can be calibrated so that your "totalizer" is very accurate.    

    

Blue Skies,  

    

Buz  

    

   

    

PS:  Just thought of another point about not using the both position.  By burning from either left or right tanks (not both) you can control your aircraft balance in roll.  If you are flying alone (like most of the time) then you can burn from the left tank first and keep that side a few gallons below the right to keep the aircraft balanced in roll.  

  



 

         

  

See what's free at AOL.com.   

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