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dwieck(at)cafes.net
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 Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 6:37 am Post subject: We can't build our own avionics |
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You need to read the rest of part 15. It covers intentional, unintentional, or
incidental radiators. These are low power devices like remote controls or devices
that radiate a signal unintentionally 9 look at the label on your computer or
clock radio) . If you read the section you will see that the aircraft
frequencies are NOT listed as frequencies that can be used. There are also limits
as to the amount of radiated field strength. yes you can build a Part 15 device
but you can not use it on aviation frequencies.
Dennis
N4ZKR
snip
| Quote: | Looking over the FCC regs here's something a little interesting:
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| Quote: | > TITLE 47--TELECOMMUNICATION
>
>
>
> CHAPTER I--FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION
>
>
>
> PART 15_RADIO FREQUENCY DEVICES--Table of Contents
>
>
>
> Subpart A_General
>
>
>
> Sec. 15.23 Home-built devices.
>
>
>
> (a) Equipment authorization is not required for devices that are not
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> marketed, are not constructed from a kit, and are built in quantities of
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> five or less for personal use.
>
> (b) It is recognized that the individual builder of home-built
>
> equipment may not possess the means to perform the measurements for
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> determining compliance with the regulations. In this case, the builder
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> is expected to employ good engineering practices to meet the specified
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> technical standards to the greatest extent practicable. The provisions
>
> of Sec. 15.5 apply to this equipment.
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| Quote: | I'm not a lawyer, but this seems pretty clear to me. My thinking is that if you
keep on frequency, within the bandwidth limits, and make a reasonable attempt at
any other spec's, you should be good to go as long as you don't try to sell
them. >This agrees with the ARRL news letters I've seen over the years. People
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get in >trouble for trying to sell unlicensed transmitters or causing
interference to >others, not building their own.
| Quote: | Steven Reynard
Workshop prep/RV-7 Planning
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echristley(at)nc.rr.com
Guest
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 7:32 am Post subject: We can't build our own avionics |
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dwieck(at)cafes.net wrote:
| Quote: |
You need to read the rest of part 15. It covers intentional, unintentional, or
incidental radiators. These are low power devices like remote controls or devices
that radiate a signal unintentionally 9 look at the label on your computer or
clock radio) . If you read the section you will see that the aircraft
frequencies are NOT listed as frequencies that can be used. There are also limits
as to the amount of radiated field strength. yes you can build a Part 15 device
but you can not use it on aviation frequencies.
If I'm understanding what you're saying, the NAV portion of his NAV/COM
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would be totally acceptable to the FCC, and the FAA wouldn't bat an eye
as long as it's in an experimental craft. The DME, GPS receiver,
GS/marker, gyrocompass, intercom, TCAS, VOR, LOC and VHF recievers would
all be totally acceptable to the FCC. The transmitting portions (VHF
amplifier, COM transmitter, and radio altimeter) would be asking for
trouble.
All the antennaes would be acceptable, because an antennae is not a
transmitter?
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khorton01(at)rogers.com
Guest
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 8:52 am Post subject: We can't build our own avionics |
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DME has a transmitter. It transmits a signal to the ground station, and determines distance by measuring the delay before the ground station responds.
TCAS also has a transmitter - it interrogates any transponders in the area and builds its knowledge of conflicting traffic based on the responses it gets.
Kevin Horton
On Thu, 31 May 2007 11:31:32 -0400
Ernest Christley <echristley(at)nc.rr.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
dwieck(at)cafes.net wrote:
>
>
>
> You need to read the rest of part 15. It covers intentional, unintentional, or
> incidental radiators. These are low power devices like remote controls or devices
> that radiate a signal unintentionally 9 look at the label on your computer or
> clock radio) . If you read the section you will see that the aircraft
> frequencies are NOT listed as frequencies that can be used. There are also limits
> as to the amount of radiated field strength. yes you can build a Part 15 device
> but you can not use it on aviation frequencies.
>
>
If I'm understanding what you're saying, the NAV portion of his NAV/COM
would be totally acceptable to the FCC, and the FAA wouldn't bat an eye
as long as it's in an experimental craft. The DME, GPS receiver,
GS/marker, gyrocompass, intercom, TCAS, VOR, LOC and VHF recievers would
all be totally acceptable to the FCC. The transmitting portions (VHF
amplifier, COM transmitter, and radio altimeter) would be asking for
trouble.
All the antennaes would be acceptable, because an antennae is not a
transmitter?
|
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echristley(at)nc.rr.com
Guest
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 9:37 am Post subject: We can't build our own avionics |
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Kevin Horton wrote:
| Quote: |
DME has a transmitter. It transmits a signal to the ground station, and determines distance by measuring the delay before the ground station responds.
I did not know that. Thank you.
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| Quote: | TCAS also has a transmitter - it interrogates any transponders in the area and builds its knowledge of conflicting traffic based on the responses it gets.
There are also passive ones that only display what they've received,
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depending on other interrogation sources to set off everyone's
transponder; however, it appears that this ain't one of those. Reading
the instructions, it appears that this one is a full fledged transponder
as well as a warning system.
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dwieck(at)cafes.net
Guest
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 10:44 am Post subject: We can't build our own avionics |
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If I'm understanding what you're saying, the NAV portion of his NAV/COM would be
totally acceptable to the FCC, and the FAA wouldn't bat an eye as long as it's in
an experimental craft.
Prbably true as it is only a receiver.
The DME, GPS receiver, GS/marker, gyrocompass, intercom, TCAS, VOR, LOC and VHF
recievers would all be totally acceptable to the FCC.
Again probably true
The transmitting portions (VHF amplifier, COM transmitter, and radio altimeter)
would be asking for trouble.
Yes anything that transmits would have to be approved.
All the antennaes would be acceptable, because an antennae is not a transmitter?
Yes
Dennis
N4ZKR
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khorton01(at)rogers.com
Guest
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 11:32 am Post subject: We can't build our own avionics |
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On Thu, 31 May 2007 13:35:00 -0400
Ernest Christley <echristley(at)nc.rr.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
Kevin Horton wrote:
>
>
> TCAS also has a transmitter - it interrogates any transponders in the area and builds its knowledge of conflicting traffic based on the responses it gets.
>
There are also passive ones that only display what they've received,
depending on other interrogation sources to set off everyone's
transponder; however, it appears that this ain't one of those. Reading
the instructions, it appears that this one is a full fledged transponder
as well as a warning system.
|
A passive system would be unable to comply with the RTCA TCAS requirements. If it doesn't transmit, it may be a collision warning system, but it is not TCAS.
Kevin Horton
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sreynard
Joined: 30 May 2007
Posts: 13
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 11:47 am Post subject: Re: We can't build our own avionics |
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| Quote: | would be totally acceptable to the FCC, and the FAA wouldn't bat an eye
as long as it's in an experimental craft. The DME, GPS receiver,
GS/marker, gyrocompass, intercom, TCAS, VOR, LOC and VHF recievers would
all be totally acceptable to the FCC. The transmitting portions (VHF
amplifier, COM transmitter, and radio altimeter) would be asking for
trouble.
All the antennaes would be acceptable, because an antennae is not a
transmitter? |
Looks like you are correct. Part 87 does not have a certification exception:
| Quote: | (c) The equipment listed below is exempted from certification. The
operation of transmitters which have not been certificated must not
result in harmful interference due to the failure of those transmitters
to comply with technical standards of this subpart.
(1) Flight test station transmitters for limited periods where
justified.
(2) U.S. Government transmitters furnished in the performance of a
U.S. Government contract if the use of certificated equipment would
increase the cost of the contract or if the transmitter will be
incorporated in the finished product. However, such equipment must meet
the technical standards contained in this subpart.
(3) ELTs verified in accordance with Sec. 87.147(e).
(4) Signal generators when used as radionavigation land test
stations (MTF). |
Steve
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matronics(at)rtist.nl
Guest
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 12:11 pm Post subject: We can't build our own avionics |
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There's an alternative system that is being used on many sailplanes in
Europe. It's actively transmitting it's GPS coordinates on one of the free
industrial frequency bands and listening for others. Check out Flarm
(http://www.flarm.com/index_en.html). Depending on the local regulations
this may 'fly' in your region too...
Rob
| Quote: | > > TCAS also has a transmitter - it interrogates any transponders in the
> > area and builds its knowledge of conflicting traffic based on the
> > responses it gets.
> >
> There are also passive ones that only display what they've received,
> depending on other interrogation sources to set off everyone's
> transponder; however, it appears that this ain't one of those. Reading
> the instructions, it appears that this one is a full fledged transponder
> as well as a warning system.
A passive system would be unable to comply with the RTCA TCAS
requirements. If it doesn't transmit, it may be a collision warning
system, but it is not TCAS.
Kevin Horton
|
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echristley(at)nc.rr.com
Guest
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 7:22 pm Post subject: We can't build our own avionics |
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Rob Turk wrote:
| Quote: |
There's an alternative system that is being used on many sailplanes in
Europe. It's actively transmitting it's GPS coordinates on one of the
free industrial frequency bands and listening for others. Check out
Flarm (http://www.flarm.com/index_en.html). Depending on the local
regulations this may 'fly' in your region too...
This sounds like an excellent idea. Get out of the aircraft
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frequencies, into an area where special permission isn't
needed...however....
The problem I see here is that everyone needs to agree on what frequency
is being used. All the homebuilder load up with gear that can talk to
their cordless phone, and all the certified guys (including the big
iron) loads up with ADS-B equipment. We don't see them and they don't
see us. Kinda misses the point.
One of my local chapter members is helping the NC DOT push ADS-B here.
He considers $3K to be "low-cost" for such a system. My thoughts are
$100 for a GPS and $50 reciever, outputting NMEA sentences to a BASIC
stamp, which can tickle an audio chip to give the pilot warnings.
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