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pequeajim
Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 708
Location: New Holland, PA
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 Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 7:19 pm Post subject: N730AL Panel |
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I’m working on my panel concepts. Right now I have three different rough concepts and will probably change it around a dozen times before I settle for my final design.
Thought I would send it out for some evaluation and comments. You can be brutal if you need to as I don’ take things personal.
Jim! <<...>>
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dashvii(at)hotmail.com
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| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 7:36 pm Post subject: N730AL Panel |
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One thing that I've been meaning to post is that when flying with any of the
EFIS I find that I want to use a slip/skid indicator that is not part of the
EFIS. Also, if the EFIS messes up you can keep the turns nice and
coordinated. I would suggest an add-on which is small and easy to use such
as this: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/slipskid_indicat.php
or this one:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/microflight_slipind.php There
are various companies that make these and they come in all shapes and sizes,
but I think one directly under the pilot side EFIS would look good and be
functional. Just a thought, Brian W.
From: "Jim Langley" <pequeajim(at)gmail.com>
Reply-To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
To: <lightning-list(at)matronics.com>
Subject: N730AL Panel
Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2007 23:18:38 -0400
I'm working on my panel concepts. Right now I have three different rough
concepts and will probably change it around a dozen times before I settle
for my final design.
Thought I would send it out for some evaluation and comments. You can be
brutal if you need to as I don' take things personal.
Jim!
<< NewPanel.jpg >>
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PC Magazine’s 2007 editors’ choice for best Web mail—award-winning Windows
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mark.stauffer1(at)gmail.c
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| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 7:53 pm Post subject: N730AL Panel |
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Jim,
The proportions of your panel look a little off. The panel looks a little tall to me. If you’re using measurements given to you by Nick, please remember that the bottom 2” of the panel are bent forward 90 degrees to add stiffness to the panel. If you don’t take this into account you will have issues in the future, mainly your shins will hate you!
Are you planning on flying IFR??
Hope this helps.
Mark
From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Langley
Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 10:19 PM
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: N730AL Panel
I’m working on my panel concepts. Right now I have three different rough concepts and will probably change it around a dozen times before I settle for my final design.
Thought I would send it out for some evaluation and comments. You can be brutal if you need to as I don’ take things personal.
Jim! <<...>>
[quote][b]
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pequeajim
Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 708
Location: New Holland, PA
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| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 8:20 pm Post subject: N730AL Panel |
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Actually, the dimensions are right from Arion, but I did forget that the bottom 2” bends over. Thanks for reminding me.
Some day, I would like to fly IFR…
By the way, the .dxf was used and imported in to e-panel builder www.epanelbuilder.com
That is what I am using to layout some ideas.
Here’s another version.
Brian: Thanks for the idea. I am still not sure how I will arrange this to add a turn and slip. Some of the gages will probably go. The dual Enigmas for function as engine monitors, GPS maps and horizon, so I’m not sure what all I will be ending up with.
Jim!
From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Stauffer
Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 11:51 PM
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Lightning-List: N730AL Panel
Jim,
The proportions of your panel look a little off. The panel looks a little tall to me. If you’re using measurements given to you by Nick, please remember that the bottom 2” of the panel are bent forward 90 degrees to add stiffness to the panel. If you don’t take this into account you will have issues in the future, mainly your shins will hate you!
Are you planning on flying IFR??
Hope this helps.
Mark
From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Langley
Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 10:19 PM
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: N730AL Panel
I’m working on my panel concepts. Right now I have three different rough concepts and will probably change it around a dozen times before I settle for my final design.
Thought I would send it out for some evaluation and comments. You can be brutal if you need to as I don’ take things personal.
Jim! <<...>> | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List |
01234
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lbmathias(at)verizon.net
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 3:10 am Post subject: N730AL Panel |
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Jim,
It looks like you have some unnecessary instruments included; with the EFIS, you don't need heading indicator or VSI even for backup IFR. You will need a mag compass which you can mount on top of the glare shield. There are also 3 items which look like autopilot but I can't tell what they all are; you may also have unnecessary redundancy there. Be sure and account for the 2 inches to bend under; my panel used the whole area and caused problems in several ways, including how the panel fit the hoop and with the canopy closure.
Linda
[quote] ---
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Kayberg(at)AOL.COM
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 3:37 am Post subject: N730AL Panel |
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In a message dated 6/3/2007 11:21:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
pequeajim(at)gmail.com writes:
I’m working on my panel concepts. Right now I have three different rough
concepts and will probably change it around a dozen times before I settle for
my final design.
Thought I would send it out for some evaluation and comments. You can be
brutal if you need to as I don’ take things personal.
Jim! <<...>>
Jim, you would seem to have a vacuum system to drive a Directional Gyro and
an Artificial Horizon. Not only are the units heavy and unnecessary but the
plumbing is both bulky and expensive. You need a vacuum pump, filter,
modulator and some annoying plumbing to make them work. It would be easy to spend
over $3,000 and simply have alot of clutter to cuss at.
If a total electrical failure is your concern for flight instruments, I
would just get one of the GPS handhelds that will give you roll, and pitch info.
You can get a simply ball for yaw as other suggested. You are not going to
fly heavy IFR in a Lighning anyway.
Notsure if you are IFR rated currently, but if you are, try someone's 496
or 396 and fly a few approaches with it or perhaps some unusual attitudes.
It seems to me you have a panel that will be very annoying to keep tweeked
and very distracting to fly.
I flew on a US Air Boeing 737 recently that had much less panel!!!
Doug Koenigsberg
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com
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pequeajim
Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 708
Location: New Holland, PA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 3:52 am Post subject: N730AL Panel |
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Good point with mounting the compass on top of the glare shield. I was going to use a vertical card compass? The backup attitude indicator is electric. You may be mistaking the clock for an autopilot, and there is one AP shown on the panel.
From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of JOSEPH MATHIAS LINDA MATHIAS
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 7:10 AM
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: N730AL Panel
Jim,
It looks like you have some unnecessary instruments included; with the EFIS, you don't need heading indicator or VSI even for backup IFR. You will need a mag compass which you can mount on top of the glare shield. There are also 3 items which look like autopilot but I can't tell what they all are; you may also have unnecessary redundancy there. Be sure and account for the 2 inches to bend under; my panel used the whole area and caused problems in several ways, including how the panel fit the hoop and with the canopy closure.
Linda
[quote]
---
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pequeajim
Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 708
Location: New Holland, PA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 3:56 am Post subject: N730AL Panel |
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The AI is electric and what you see as the DG is a vertical card compass. It really is smaller than what is shown, but I did not have a pic at the time that I was playing around with the layout. That’s why there is no vacuum gage on the panel.
Thanks
Jim!
From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kayberg(at)aol.com
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 7:38 AM
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: N730AL Panel
In a message dated 6/3/2007 11:21:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time, pequeajim(at)gmail.com writes:
| Quote: |
I’m working on my panel concepts. Right now I have three different rough concepts and will probably change it around a dozen times before I settle for my final design.
Thought I would send it out for some evaluation and comments. You can be brutal if you need to as I don’ take things personal.
Jim! <<...>> |
Jim, you would seem to have a vacuum system to drive a Directional Gyro and an Artificial Horizon. Not only are the units heavy and unnecessary but the plumbing is both bulky and expensive. You need a vacuum pump, filter, modulator and some annoying plumbing to make them work. It would be easy to spend over $3,000 and simply have alot of clutter to cuss at.
If a total electrical failure is your concern for flight instruments, I would just get one of the GPS handhelds that will give you roll, and pitch info. You can get a simply ball for yaw as other suggested. You are not going to fly heavy IFR in a Lighning anyway.
Notsure if you are IFR rated currently, but if you are, try someone's 496 or 396 and fly a few approaches with it or perhaps some unusual attitudes.
It seems to me you have a panel that will be very annoying to keep tweeked and very distracting to fly.
I flew on a US Air Boeing 737 recently that had much less panel!!!
Doug Koenigsberg
See what's free at AOL.com.
| Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List |
01234
[quote][b]
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Scotty
Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 44
Location: Peachtree City, GA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 6:20 am Post subject: Re: N730AL Panel |
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Jim,
Gadgets are great fun, but in a cockpit, simplicity is good. Two screens plus backup airspeed and needle ball, to tell me where I am, what the engine is doing, and get me through a deck to an ILS approach if absolutely necessary, is about all I would want. In other words, I do not want to be tempted to fly IFR in a very small single engine plane.
Design and beauty are a part of the airplane mystique. I love the lines of the Lightning and the various paint schemes that are emerging from the builders. I appreciate the speed that the power plant, wing, and fuselage combination are giving us as builders. However, the real joy of the plane is that, all of this function and beauty are available at a semi reasonable price. Don’t tell Pete – he’ll raise the price.
The Toxo has good lines (not quite as good as the Lightning), and a great panel. I have been a devote of the Toxo for a while, but the numbers, performance and price do not come close to the Lightning, plus they are not even in production yet. The panel is very attractive (to me), and I mentioned this to Nick. He explained that beauty costs more weight, less strength, and more money. If I remember correctly, Nick said the panel in a Lightning contributes to the structural strength of the cockpit. Strength is far more important in an airplane than beauty, especially when I strap my buns in it. Here is a picture of the Toxo panel, if it gives you any ideas.
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mark.stauffer1(at)gmail.c
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 7:55 pm Post subject: N730AL Panel |
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Jim,
A couple more points to ponder while in the design phase. The depth between the panel and the forward bulkhead is approximately 11.75” and can be bumped out to 12” if necessary. Any more than that and you start running into other issues.
Also, the canopy tip up arms will come into play. With the GRT Sport EFIS systems we have about Ľ” clearance between the arm and the back of the instrument case. You can move the arms slightly right or left but again only a little because it will cause other problems. Double check the dimensions of your particular EFIS unit to make sure the tip up arms won’t be a factor. Also look at what type of connector you have and where it’s located. Again with the GRT Sports we have to be careful where we place the unit in the panel because of the 25 pin D-sub connector that comes out of the back of the case. If we place the unit too far outboard then the connector interferes with the tip up arms.
One last thing (for now at least!) to consider. Ask Ryan or Nick for the dimensions of the instrument panel bulkhead. While you are able to trim this bulkhead you should take it into consideration while designing your panel. As a general rule we do not place anything along the top inch or so of the panel.
I’d hate for you to invest a lot of money in a system that may or may not fit well.
Hope this is helpful to you.
Mark
From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Langley
Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 10:19 PM
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: N730AL Panel
I’m working on my panel concepts. Right now I have three different rough concepts and will probably change it around a dozen times before I settle for my final design.
Thought I would send it out for some evaluation and comments. You can be brutal if you need to as I don’ take things personal.
Jim! <<...>>
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Lightning-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List |
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pequeajim
Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 708
Location: New Holland, PA
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| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 3:42 am Post subject: N730AL Panel |
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Thanks Mark. All good suggestions and I will take all of it in to consideration. All of this feedback will help me in my final decision.
Jim!
From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Stauffer
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 11:53 PM
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Lightning-List: N730AL Panel
Jim,
A couple more points to ponder while in the design phase. The depth between the panel and the forward bulkhead is approximately 11.75” and can be bumped out to 12” if necessary. Any more than that and you start running into other issues.
Also, the canopy tip up arms will come into play. With the GRT Sport EFIS systems we have about Ľ” clearance between the arm and the back of the instrument case. You can move the arms slightly right or left but again only a little because it will cause other problems. Double check the dimensions of your particular EFIS unit to make sure the tip up arms won’t be a factor. Also look at what type of connector you have and where it’s located. Again with the GRT Sports we have to be careful where we place the unit in the panel because of the 25 pin D-sub connector that comes out of the back of the case. If we place the unit too far outboard then the connector interferes with the tip up arms.
One last thing (for now at least!) to consider. Ask Ryan or Nick for the dimensions of the instrument panel bulkhead. While you are able to trim this bulkhead you should take it into consideration while designing your panel. As a general rule we do not place anything along the top inch or so of the panel.
I’d hate for you to invest a lot of money in a system that may or may not fit well.
Hope this is helpful to you.
Mark
From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Langley
Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 10:19 PM
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: N730AL Panel
I’m working on my panel concepts. Right now I have three different rough concepts and will probably change it around a dozen times before I settle for my final design.
Thought I would send it out for some evaluation and comments. You can be brutal if you need to as I don’ take things personal.
Jim! <<...>> | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List |
01234
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Lightning-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List |
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