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FIRE!!!!!
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ropermike

Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 40
Location: West Texas, South Mississippi

Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 5:06 am Post subject: FIRE!!!!!

Hello fellow Kolbers. I read your forum regularly and rarely have anything to contribute but I want to tell you what happened to me Saturday! I had just completed a two hr flight in my Mark II and went down to the local wallmart supercenter to fill my gas jugs up. I prefer to fill here because of the volume of gas they sell and i have never had a problem with it....I pulled up to the pump and filled my Pick up up first with diesel. Then I got my two plastic (Wallmart) 5 gal gas jugs out and set them between my truck and the pump, which was my first mistake. I will allways put the jugs as far from the pump and my truck as I can in the future, but I do like to be close enough to read the gallons on the pump as to not overfill the jugs...I put my "Mr Funnel" in the top of the first jug. I use a small bungee cord to hold the funnel upright while Im filling the jug.....I start filling the jug and have about two gallons inside when the funnel starts getting too full. This is a common problem because it is hard to pump the gas slow enough even though I have the big 5 gallon per minute "Mr Funnel"....I stop the nozzel for about 15 seconds to let the funnel catch up and when I squeeze the nozzel again the funnel just lights right up and begins BURNING!.....I stepped back and dropped the gas nozzel, and tried to believe my eyes!!! The funnel and gas jug was truely burning and the second jug had flames coming out the cap!.....This was happening about two feet away from my truck and about three feet away from the gas pump! I jumped in the truck and started it up and moved it away and then ran and told the pimple faced kid in the little office that I had a fire! I then ran back to the pump and the jugs were still burning but not nearly as bad as I thought they would. I expected an explosion any minute and was terrified that the fire was so close to the pump so I grabbed a windshield washer (thankfully this one was one of the longer kind) and I pushed the burning jugs about 20' away from the pump. About that time a guy that was watching all this had found a fire extinguiser on the side of the building and ran up and snuffed the fire out!....Mistake # 2 was not having a fire extinguiser in my truck! Ofcourse your thinking there was a lot more than two mistakes commited so far in this crises arent you?...About that time the entire Columbia, Ms police and fire department arrived on the scene.......Well I can tell you for sure, I'm extremely Lucky! This could have turned into a huge fire and people could have been hurt!.............Thankfully I had heard that you need to put jugs on the ground to prevent static electricity even though it didnt in this case, it did save me from burning down my truck!.....I had a cell phone on my belt in a leather case but I didnt recieve any calls during this time. I will in the future leave the phone in the truck in case it was what caused the spark.....I think it was just static electricty even though the funnel is or was plastic. The fire cheif later told me not to use the funnel in the future and to stick the nozzel into the jug and fill it. The cheap plasic gas jugs were remarkable though! They just vented out the top and the fire never got out of hand even though the top half of the jug I was filling was gone by the time the fire was put out...I havnt decided how Im gonna fuel from now on. Suddenly, that extra 50 cents a gallon for 100LL doesnt seem so high!......Sorry this story was so long but I hope I might keep this from happening to someone else...For now, Im off to find that fire extinguisher......Mike

_________________
The next best thing to playing and winning is playing and losing!...Mike Hillger

lcottrell

Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or

Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 5:31 am Post subject: FIRE!!!!!

Subject: FIRE!!!!!

This is a com!

 	  Quote: 	
		   mon problem because it is hard to pump the gas slow enough even though I 

 have the big 5 gallon per minute "Mr Funnel"....I stop the nozzel for 

 about 15 seconds to let the funnel catch up and when I squeeze the nozzel 

 again the funnel just lights right up and begins BURNING


	


You certainly did several things right- nobody was hurt. The problem was the 

"Mr. funnel". The gas hoses are grounded with a wire inside the rubber of 

the hose. The problem with filling tanks in the back of the trucks is that 

they are not grounded. Normally when filling a tank one tried to keep the 

metal of the nozzle in contact with the plastic jug. This keeps the grounded 

part of the nozzle in contact with the jug, no fire. If it is set on the 

ground you should have no problem. "Mr. funnel" circumvents the grounding, 

and the slow filtering also increases the static build up. I cannot remember 

for sure, but I have heard of a lot of fires when the Mr. funnel has been 

used. I personally think the possible benefits gained are far less than the 

hazards risked.

Larry C,Oregon

Ralph B

Joined: 14 Apr 2007
Posts: 367
Location: Mound Minnesota

Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 6:32 am Post subject: Re: FIRE!!!!!

I fill my red plastic red gas cans all the time at the pump and in my garage. I always transfer fuel with them on the cement and have never had a problem. During the winter months, I will ground my hand on the garage door railing to help discharge any static that might have built up.



I think about this all the time as it could be tragic if they ever caught fire. Thanks for your post.



Ralph

_________________
Ralph B

Kolb Kolbra 912uls
N20386
550 hours

ropermike

Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 40
Location: West Texas, South Mississippi

Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 7:06 am Post subject: Re: FIRE!!!!!

 	  Quote: 	
		  Normally when filling a tank one tried to keep the

metal of the nozzle in contact with the plastic jug. This keeps the grounded

part of the nozzle in contact with the jug, no fire. If it is set on the

ground you should have no problem.

So, is it possible to cause a spark pouring from one plastic fuel can thru the "Mr Funnel" into another on the ground?

_________________
The next best thing to playing and winning is playing and losing!...Mike Hillger

ropermike

Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 40
Location: West Texas, South Mississippi

Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 7:08 am Post subject: Re: FIRE!!!!!

So, is it possible to cause a spark pouring from one plastic fuel can thru the "Mr Funnel" into another on the ground?

........Sorry,this was my question, not part of the quote..

_________________
The next best thing to playing and winning is playing and losing!...Mike Hillger

rlaird

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 373
Location: Houston

Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 7:32 am Post subject: FIRE!!!!!

Mike --

  

  >So, is it possible to cause a spark pouring from one plastic fuel can thru the

  >"Mr Funnel" into another on the ground?

  

  Yes.  Static charges can build up on the surface of (usually hard) plastic containers and can jump from one to another. Keeping constant contact between all pieces involved is the safest method, eliminating the chance for static to be different on one part.  My guess:  When you stopped fueling and pulled the handle away, a differential in static developed between the fuel handle and the Mr. Funnel, so when you went to restart the pumping, static was discharged as the pump nozzle got close to the Mr. Funnel.  If you had left the nozzle in contact with the Mr. Funnel while you waited for the Mr. Funnel to drain out, the fire would possibly have been avoided.

  

  Also note that only gasoline vapor is explosive... liquid gasoline will simply burn, as you witnessed.

  

    -- Robert

  

  

  <--

_________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Robert Laird
formerly: MkIIIc w/ 912ULS & Gyrobee
current: Autogyro Cavalon w/ 914ULS
Houston, TX area
http://www.Texas-Flyer.com

JetPilot

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246

Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 8:20 am Post subject: Re: FIRE!!!!!

I fill up the same red plastic jugs also for my Kolb.  Its amazing how static electricity could do that, but im guessing maybe the static built up durring filling and possibly sent a small discharge from the nozzle to the metal screen in the MR Funnel which could have started the fire ???  Understanding the possible causes of this could help others prevent this in the future....



Cellphones will not start a fire at a gas station, that is a wives tale that has been well covered on mythbusters, and also by statistics and science.  There is no arcing or static buildup occuring anywhere in a cellphone, not even durring a call.  The explanation lies somewhere else.



Anyways, I think the fire cheif was on the right track, it seems like a good idea not to use the MR Funnel while fueling, and I will make sure I park far away from the plastic cans I am filling.   Thanks for posting, it is something that I never worried about happening by simply filling  a jug, but in the future I will be much more careful.



Mike

_________________
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!

Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S

Blumax008(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 9:58 am Post subject: FIRE!!!!!

This is a reply from one of the guys about the fire this dumb ass had.  Basically he says...lose the fuckin' Mr. Funnel bullshit.

  

 In a message dated 6/4/2007 9:31:49 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  lcottrell(at)fmtcblue.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  You    certainly did several things right- nobody was hurt. The problem was the    

"Mr. funnel". The gas hoses are grounded with a wire inside the rubber of    

the hose. The problem with filling tanks in the back of the trucks is that    

they are not grounded. Normally when filling a tank one tried to keep the    

metal of the nozzle in contact with the plastic jug. This keeps the    grounded 

part of the nozzle in contact with the jug, no fire. If it is set    on the 

ground you should have no problem. "Mr. funnel" circumvents the    grounding, 

and the slow filtering also increases the static build up. I    cannot remember 

for sure, but I have heard of a lot of fires when the Mr.    funnel has been 

used. I personally think the possible benefits gained are    far less than the 

hazards risked.

	


 

  



See what's free at AOL.com. 

  [quote][b]

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1670
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 10:20 am Post subject: FIRE!!!!!

Clean up your mouth. This list is not a  haven for gratuitous vulgarity.

  

 Richard Pike

 MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)

  

 do not archive

 [quote]   ---

_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0

Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.

kolbmark3

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 40
Location: Mt Clemens, MI

Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 11:24 am Post subject: FIRE!!!!!

Right on Richard! I forwarded these to Matt. Let's see what happens.

  

 Jim

 [quote]   ---

_________________
Jim
Mark III
Mt. Clemens, MI

FS2Kolb(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 12:08 pm Post subject: FIRE!!!!!

Last year Bill Catalina, the Blue Max, was going to unsubscribe  because we didn't put up with his adult words. Is this the same  person?  http://www.flythecoast.com/

  

  

 In a message dated 6/4/2007 1:24:38 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,  flykolb(at)wowway.com writes:

 [quote]   Right on Richard! I forwarded these to Matt. Let's see what  happens.

    

   Jim

   [quote]     ---

kolbmark3

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 40
Location: Mt Clemens, MI

Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 12:25 pm Post subject: FIRE!!!!!

Sure looks like it - "Blumax"="Blie max" ? Looking to cause trouble on the  list?

  

 Jim

 [quote]   ---

_________________
Jim
Mark III
Mt. Clemens, MI

ropermike

Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 40
Location: West Texas, South Mississippi

Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 3:53 am Post subject: Re: FIRE!!!!!

Thanks for all your advice, well, allmost all of it!....I have decided that I will buy me another "Mr Funnel" and keep filling the way I'm filling now except I will make a simple ground wire with three clamps and connect the nozzel handle, jug, and funnel before I start. I will also have a fire extinguisher handy..........As for Blumax, I dont appreciate being called a dumbass but I'm not gonna lose any sleep over it! Since your into bumperstickers, I've got one for you and it fits you perfectlly!  Jesus loves you! But everyone else thinks your an ASSHOLE!

_________________
The next best thing to playing and winning is playing and losing!...Mike Hillger

David Lucas

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 79
Location: Europe. based Amsterdam NL

Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 4:41 am Post subject: Re: FIRE!!!!!

Re grounding and sparks, I can recall a briefing some years back where the lecturer told us that when you fill your car at the gas station as you put the nozzle into the filler point that more often than not a small spark is created as the two items come together. The saving grace is that; A) the spark is very weak and B) the fumes in the nozzle area are too rich for the fuel to ignite. Technicaly speaking each vehicle should be grounded with a ground wire to Earth and the Pump before refueling starts but from a practical point of view nobody would do it and the risk is so small it is accepted. Sobering thought eh ?



David.

WillUribe(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 5:12 am Post subject: FIRE!!!!!

Click here: YouTube -  Gas Station Fire With Rescue 

  

 Hi Mike,

 Happy to hear no harm was done, unlike the man on this video.

  

 Regards,

Will Uribe

 El Paso, TX

 FireStar II N4GU

  

  

--

olendorf

Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 140
Location: Schenectady, NY USA

Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 5:20 am Post subject: Re: FIRE!!!!!

I saw a guy pouring from a red plastic gas can into his Minimax and it caught on fire. The guy had the sense to put the gas cap back on his airplane tank really fast and no more fire. I was impressed.

_________________
Scott Olendorf
Original Firestar, Rotax 447, Powerfin prop
Schenectady, NY
http://sites.google.com/site/kolbfirestar/

Russ Kinne

Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Posts: 182

Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 5:44 am Post subject: FIRE!!!!!

RIGHT ON , ROPERMIKE !!



On Jun 5, 2007, at 7:53 AM, ropermike wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Thanks for all your advice, well, allmost all of it!....I have  

 decided that I will buy me another "Mr Funnel" and keep filling the  

 way I'm filling now except I will make a simple ground wire with  

 three clamps and connect the nozzel handle, jug, and funnel before  

 I start. I will also have a fire extinguisher handy..........As for  

 Blumax, I dont appreciate being called a dumbass but I'm not gonna  

 lose any sleep over it! Since your into bumperstickers, I've got  

 one for you and it fits you perfectlly!  Jesus loves you! But  

 everyone else thinks your an ASSHOLE!



 --------

 The next best thing to playing and winning is playing and  

 losing!...Mike Hillger





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=116609#116609

JetPilot

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246

Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 7:32 am Post subject: Re: FIRE!!!!!

 	  olendorf wrote: 	
		  I saw a guy pouring from a red plastic gas can into his Minimax and it caught on fire. The guy had the sense to put the gas cap back on his airplane tank really fast and no more fire. I was impressed. 	




I have never heard of an airplane catching fire because of fueling with plastic gas cans.  Was he doing something strange, or did you see anything that might have caused this to happen ?



Mike

_________________
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!

Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S

olendorf

Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 140
Location: Schenectady, NY USA

Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 11:44 am Post subject: Re: FIRE!!!!!

He was just standing there pouring it in. Plane and pilot were standing on grass.  I'm pretty sure he wasn't using a funnel.  

After that I always make sure my spout is in contact with the plane while pouring. I also keep my body in contact with the plane as well.

_________________
Scott Olendorf
Original Firestar, Rotax 447, Powerfin prop
Schenectady, NY
http://sites.google.com/site/kolbfirestar/

ceengland(at)bellsouth.ne
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 12:10 pm Post subject: FIRE!!!!!

JetPilot wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 

 olendorf wrote:

> I saw a guy pouring from a red plastic gas can into his Minimax and it caught on fire. The guy had the sense to put the gas cap back on his airplane tank really fast and no more fire. I was impressed.

 

 

 I have never heard of an airplane catching fire because of fueling with plastic gas cans.  Was he doing something strange, or did you see anything that might have caused this to happen ?

 

 Mike


	


Happened to a friend of mine who flies a rotary powered RV-6. I can send 

you his email account of what happened, if you like. He stopped the fire 

with the same techniques mentioned by others: cap the fuel tank on the 

plane & put out the fire in the gas can with an extinguisher.



He won't use auto fuel any more; fuels only from avgas pumps now.



On the other hand, millions of people fuel boats, cars, lawnmowers, 

planes, etc from plastic cans every day with no problems.



About a dozen people had car wrecks within 20 miles of each one of us 

today. Anyone plan to stop driving? 



Charlie

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