Matronics Email Lists :: View topic - need Elevator travel limits for speedster mk4

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

need Elevator travel limits for speedster mk4

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Kitfox-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

Don G

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 156
Location: Central Illinois

Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 5:20 pm Post subject: need Elevator travel limits for speedster mk4

Gents,



I am re-assembling N85KF after transport and I am concerned about elevator rigging. As I have no builders manual I need the Elevator travel limits for a Model IV speedster...80 hp

 I see that there were a series of spacers/washers on each of the 2 bolts where the horizontal mounts under the vertical stab. The count on these seems to move the horizontal aft..increasing clearance on the bellcrank and elevator stop. thereby increaseing down travel as the horizontal goes aft.

IS this typically the method of adjusting the elevator travel?

What does or did SkyStar call for?



ANd while we are taking rigging, I will need the flaperon limits also I guess when I get the wings on!



Thx Gents!

- The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List

_________________
Don G.
Central Illinois
Kitfox IV Speedster
Luscombe 8A
RV9A

kitfoxmike

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 373

Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 5:48 pm Post subject: Re: need Elevator travel limits for speedster mk4

Elevator travel limits, is that for when you have down stick it hits something to keep the stick from going close to the floor.  Well if that is what you are talking about I took my limit out.  Now the stick goes way forward, this allows me to get in the airplane better.  But you need to have a limit somewhere or the bushing on the floor that holds the control assy.  will break.  What I did was glue a piece of wood on the right side of the cabin to stop the control assy from binding and breaking the nylon bushings.  Don't ask my how I know you will break the bushing.

- The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List

Tom Jones

Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 752
Location: Ellensburg, WA

Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 7:00 pm Post subject: Re: need Elevator travel limits for speedster mk4

 	  Quote: 	
		  I need the Elevator travel limits for a Model IV speedster...80 hp 	




Don,

The washers have nothing to do with elevator adjustment.  The builder must have needed to put them in as spacers to be able to tighten the mounting bolts without bending the horizontal stab assembly.  I have one washer as a spacer on the rear bolt to make a snug fit on my Classic 4.



If you did not loosen the check nuts and did not turn the rod ends on any of the control rods when you dissassembled the plane, you should be able to put everything back together without making any adjustments.  Assuming it was correct to begin with.



If you need to adjust the elevator limits: For up elevator limit, adjust the rod ends in the elevator tube assembly so that the rear rod end contacts the tail post at the same time the stick contacts the seat.  Should be 30 to 35 degrees compared to the horizontal stab.  You will have plenty of down elevator.  The down elevator stop is a small tube welded across the fuselage a couple inches ahead of the tail post.  No adjustment on that.



Rigging the flaperons requires you build some jigs.  You really are going to need a manual.  Did the builder not have one to go with the plane?

- The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List

_________________
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA

Don G

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 156
Location: Central Illinois

Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 7:48 pm Post subject: Re: need Elevator travel limits for speedster mk4

Tom,

I did not get a builders manual with the plane. Only engine manuals

 I bought it from the 3rd owner.

I Understand the config you describe that your horizontal is in.

I remember when I disassembled the tail...several washers being in place, probably 5 thick ones. I would guess 3/8 of an inch worth.

I thought at the time it was just a builders mistake. Now, upon re-assembly, I see that with one washer at the rear fitting..it will fit fine and the front fitting will be flush not needing any spacer/washers. 

As I was contemplateing the washers that were there before, I see that the effect of these could only be to move the horizontal aft. When wondering why that would be needed, it occoured to me that possibly the lower limit of the elevator was not enough, and this was the fix the builder chose as moving the horizontal increases the clearance between the cross tube stop and the elevator crank.

I did not measure it as I did not have a protractor at the hangar tonite, but by eye, the upper travel is more than the lower with one washer in place. Hence, my question about the needed travel limits.

(I guess I am kinda sensitive about this being a Luscombe owner, and reduced up elevator limits are one of the few AD's on it.) 

tomorrow I will have a protractor and see if it is 30 to 35 degrees.

Do you know what the down angle should be? IN case something is screwed up here?



AS to those ailerons..yes, I can understand why a jig might be needed to measure them, considering their shape and distance from the trailing edge.

no control rod ends have been changed, but I still would like to have the peace of mind in knowing they are correct.

- The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List

_________________
Don G.
Central Illinois
Kitfox IV Speedster
Luscombe 8A
RV9A

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 6:50 am Post subject: need Elevator travel limits for speedster mk4

At 06:20 PM 6/6/2007, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		    I see that there were a series of spacers/washers on each of the 2 

 bolts where the horizontal mounts under the vertical stab. The 

 count on these seems to move the horizontal aft..increasing 

 clearance on the bellcrank and elevator stop. thereby increaseing 

 down travel as the horizontal goes aft.

IS this typically the method of adjusting the elevator travel?


	


No. You should put the minimum number of washers in each location. 

Otherwise the bolt shear induced by air loads will tend to bend the 

brackets. You should put washers in either location so they both 

bottom at the same time. (I.e. you don't tend to bend either one when 

you tighten the bolts.)



I had 30+ up and 20 down on my elevator. The aileron rigging is more 

complex. I have attached a page from the manual rendered barely 

legible by the reduction process. Let me know if you need a larger 

view and I'll send it direct. Note there's no measurement for the 

flaperon. It's installed horizontal with the wing true chord, (LE to 

TE,) horizontal, measured at the flaperon mid-span. I've set my flap 

system so I can reflex the flaperon up a little, though I've not been 

able to discern any speed difference doing so.

Guy Buchanan

San Diego, CA

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

- The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List

Flaperon_rigging.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

92.89 KB

Viewed:

494 Time(s)

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

kitfoxmike

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 373

Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 7:42 am Post subject: Re: need Elevator travel limits for speedster mk4

The small tube that is in the back to limit the down movement is the piece I removed, like I said, real nice now that the stick goes all the way forward(can get in and out of the airplane), you just need to make a stop on the floor that keeps the control assy from binding and breaking the nylon block.

- The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List

lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 10:29 am Post subject: need Elevator travel limits for speedster mk4

When I was building, a friend had built a couple of Kitfoxes - early 

models - told me I had to put a metal strap over the plastic block between 

the bolts for strength.  I did, but doubted the need.  I doubt no longer.



Lowell Fitt

Cameron Park, CA

Model IV-1200 R-912 UL Warp

1998 870 hrs.

---

- The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List

kitfoxmike

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 373

Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 11:34 am Post subject: Re: need Elevator travel limits for speedster mk4

I'm trying to remember the exact spot the block broke on me, but if you remove the stop in the back, which was a great idea, you end up with the control assy hitting the floor and putting undue pressure on the nylon blocks and they will break, seems to me mine broke in half and it could have been along the top, might of been on the bottom along the floor.  Easy fix was to put in a piece of left over wood from the wings, from between the ribs and hysol to the floor, made it so the clearance from the control assy to the floor when pushed all the way forward was about 1/8 inch then glued the wood piece in place.  Now I can push forward on the stick when getting in or out of the plane and not worry about anything breaking.

- The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List

Renaud

Joined: 24 May 2007
Posts: 9
Location: France

Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 1:45 pm Post subject: Re: need Elevator travel limits for speedster mk4

Don,



The manual of the Kitfox Classic IV says up +29° down -24° for the elevator.



One mine, the upward travel stopped when the push/pull rod hit the little transverse tube normally used to stop downward travel. (See the attached skecth). I checked with John McBean (Kitfoxaircraft) who confirmed that the upward travel normally stops against the rear vertical.

I built a little part fixed on the lever of the elevator that now hits the rear vertical of the fuselage.



At the end, I have a travel of ~35° up, just what I need for 3 points landing (and I sealed the elevator / stab gap). Downward travel is about 25°, but of course I never had to use it completely.



Maybe this can help.

- The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List

elevator control004.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

89.83 KB

Viewed:

465 Time(s)

_________________
Renaud

KitFox IV - 1200. Rotax 582.

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Kitfox-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum