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fstringham
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 87
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 Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 2:57 pm Post subject: Capacitive Fuel Sending units |
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Carl
I went capacitive....but would probably use float next time around.....
Frank (at) SGU RV7A "NDY"
| Quote: | From: "Carl Bell" <carlbell(at)gforcecable.com>
Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
To: "Carl Bell" <carlbell(at)gforcecable.com>
Subject: Capacitive Fuel Sending units
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2007 15:10:41 -0400
Tail is almost done and I need to order my wing kit this week and would
love
to get conventional wisdom or whether to order it with capacitive fuel
sending units or float sending units. I will probable use a combo EMS i.e.
Vision, GRT, Dynon etc. Any thoughts or experience would be appreciated. I
am building an RV 7 with 180 and CS. Thanks
Carl W Bell
New Venture Consulting
Mobile: 803.640.2760
<http://www.newventureconsulting.com> www.newventureconsulting.com
carlbell(at)gforcecable.com
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daverv6a(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 5:45 pm Post subject: Capacitive Fuel Sending units |
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Carl,
I have capacitance senders and Advanced Systems engine monitor, accuracy is amazing.
Dave Burnham
N64FN
Huntsville, AL
On 6/4/07, Frank Stringham <fstringham(at)hotmail.com (fstringham(at)hotmail.com)> wrote: [quote]--> RV-List message posted by: "Frank Stringham" < fstringham(at)hotmail.com (fstringham(at)hotmail.com)>
Carl
I went capacitive....but would probably use float next time around.....
Frank (at) SGU RV7A "NDY"
_________________________________________________________________
[b]
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bobbyhester(at)charter.ne
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 7:14 pm Post subject: Capacitive Fuel Sending units |
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David how are you checking the accuracy? I have the same set up and I stick my tanks before flying to check the fuel level and the level on the monitor and I would not call the accuracy amazing.
David Burnham wrote: [quote] Carl,
I have capacitance senders and Advanced Systems engine monitor, accuracy is amazing.
Dave Burnham
N64FN
Huntsville, AL
On 6/4/07, Frank Stringham <fstringham(at)hotmail.com (fstringham(at)hotmail.com)> wrote: [b]
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daverv6a(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 5:53 pm Post subject: Capacitive Fuel Sending units |
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Bobby,
I check the gauge levels before filling and and the amount added to fill is very close to what the gauge indicates was used. The float type sensors are notoriously inaccurate, also the guages in the 172 I flew bounced around a lot once the fuel level got below 1/2. My gauges don't bounce. May be different for some of the other float type gauges?
Dave
On 6/4/07, Bobby Hester <bobbyhester(at)charter.net (bobbyhester(at)charter.net)> wrote: [quote] David how are you checking the accuracy? I have the same set up and I stick my tanks before flying to check the fuel level and the level on the monitor and I would not call the accuracy amazing.
David Burnham wrote:
[b]
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sbuc(at)hiwaay.net
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| Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 7:09 pm Post subject: Capacitive Fuel Sending units |
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David Burnham wrote:
| Quote: | Bobby,
I check the gauge levels before filling and and the amount added to fill is
very close to what the gauge indicates was used. The float type sensors are
notoriously inaccurate, also the guages in the 172 I flew bounced around a
lot once the fuel level got below 1/2. My gauges don't bounce. May be
different for some of the other float type gauges?
|
As another data point regarding float senders, my RV-6 has been flying
nearly eight years with the standard floats feeding an Electronics
International fuel gage. The system is very accurate and there is *no*
gage bounce. The only shortcoming of the standard floats is that due to
the dihedral of the wings they indicate full until 3-4 gallons burn out
of each tank. But they are accurate from there to the bottom of the tank.
Sam Buchanan
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Mark Phillips in TN
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 431
Location: Columbia, TN
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| Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 8:23 pm Post subject: Capacitive Fuel Sending units |
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In a message dated 6/7/2007 8:54:52 PM Central Daylight Time, daverv6a(at)gmail.com writes:
| Quote: | | The float type sensors are notoriously inaccurate |
>>>
Mine are notoriously accurate (Vans)- when they say 5 gals, I have 5 gallons left- when they say 0 gals, I got about 50 seconds left...
No, they don't tell you much until about 1/3 is gone, but isn't the LAST 1/3 of more interest?
Mark do not archive
See what's free at AOL.com.
[quote][b]
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From The PossumWorks... |
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klwerner(at)comcast.net
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 8:38 pm Post subject: Capacitive Fuel Sending units |
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Hey Mark, what do you normally think about in these last 50 seconds??? Just curious...
Remember: When the prop stops in mid air, the pilot *may* start sweating!
I'd rather use a timer then relying on the fuel gauge.
do not archive
[quote] ---
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Mark Phillips in TN
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 431
Location: Columbia, TN
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| Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 11:31 pm Post subject: Capacitive Fuel Sending units |
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In a message dated 6/7/2007 11:39:58 PM Central Daylight Time, klwerner(at)comcast.net writes:
| Quote: | Hey Mark, what do you normally think about in these last 50 seconds??? Just curious...
Remember: When the prop stops in mid air, the pilot *may* start sweating!
I'd rather use a timer then relying on the fuel gauge.
|
>>>
Only reason to sweat in my plane is on the ground on a sunny Tennessee summer day when the bubble is shut- but then I am reminded to turn on the cabin fan.  10K' and 160kts is much cooler. A more important reminder is every 30 minutes when my trusty EIS reminds me to check the gauges in case I'm too "busy" enjoying the flight...
I know about the 50 seconds (actually more like 5-6 minutes- hard to tell exactly when the needle bottoms out) from testing on the ground and have never starved Mojo in flight (knock on aluminum!) Level and sump checks pre-flight are more useful data.
Brings up another interesting debate- those who intentionally run a tank dry to confirm they can switch tanks, bring the Lyc back online and merrily go on their way. Intentionally depriving ones self of half of your available fuel system (kinda) seems a fools errand...
Fly smart, fly safe-
Mark do not archive
See what's free at AOL.com.
[quote][b]
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jmsears(at)adelphia.net
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 2:26 am Post subject: Capacitive Fuel Sending units |
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| Quote: | >Brings up another interesting debate- those who intentionally run a tank
>dry to confirm they can switch tanks, bring the Lyc back online and
>merrily go on their way. Intentionally depriving ones self of half of
>your available fuel system (kinda) seems a fools errand...<<
|
I have to agree with Mark on this one. I've never allowed my tanks
to get that low, either. I'm always afraid that something could go wrong
with the remaining tank. Not good.
I have no reminder devices in my RV, either. I use my Hobbs and brain to
make the half hour tank changes. Granted, I don't change right on the
money; but, it's usually close enough for horseshoes.  I guess my years
of flying the Cheetah helped make that transition. I had to get used to
making the switches when I moved from my C172 to the Cheetah, though.
As for the senders, I'm using the float type hooked to simple analog fuel
gauges. Mine will only read up to 3/4 full; but, they aren't too bad below
that. My aim was to have them reading empty at empty. That mission was
accomplished, even though I doubt I'll ever find out in flight. I track the
time in flight for fuel management. I don't think my bladder will let me
run out of fuel.
Jim in KY
do not archive
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seiders(at)bellsouth.net
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 5:45 am Post subject: Capacitive Fuel Sending units |
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I have just shy of 500 hrs on 6A. Have used Van's fuel ga/sdg units
since start. Some time ago, rt side went inaccurate (gauge ok) .
Recently had wings off and so replaced both sdg units. Now neither is
accurate. Shall I assume sdg units ok, and go for gauges, or what? thanks.
1:06 PM 6/7/2007, you wrote:
| Quote: |
David Burnham wrote:
>Bobby,
>I check the gauge levels before filling and and the amount added to fill is
>very close to what the gauge indicates was used. The float type sensors are
>notoriously inaccurate, also the guages in the 172 I flew bounced around a
>lot once the fuel level got below 1/2. My gauges don't bounce. May be
>different for some of the other float type gauges?
As another data point regarding float senders, my RV-6 has been
flying nearly eight years with the standard floats feeding an
Electronics International fuel gage. The system is very accurate and
there is *no* gage bounce. The only shortcoming of the standard
floats is that due to the dihedral of the wings they indicate full
until 3-4 gallons burn out of each tank. But they are accurate from
there to the bottom of the tank.
Sam Buchanan
|
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sbuc(at)hiwaay.net
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 6:03 am Post subject: Capacitive Fuel Sending units |
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Konrad L. Werner wrote:
<snip>
| Quote: |
I'd rather use a timer then relying on the fuel gauge.
|
There is no argument the use of a timer is good practice. However, the
historical distrust of fuel gages probably isn't as valid today in our
world of accurate gages and fuel monitors. My plane, like many RVs, has
not only the accurate EI electronic gage but also a fuel totalizer. As
long as those two independent systems agree I will rely on them instead
of a timer and they have proved to be very accurate, within a gallon or
so at top-off. After flying these aids for several years, I would feel
rather uninformed if all I had was a timer.
Sam Buchanan
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klwerner(at)comcast.net
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 6:17 am Post subject: Capacitive Fuel Sending units |
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Agreed! A good "calibrateable" gauge like the Electronic International Fuel Gauge is the way to go, when compared to the standard Isspro/Vans Gauges.
Something like your E.I. Fuel Level and Fuel Flow/Totalizer is the way to go and I would trust these two independent units, as they can be cross-checked.
do not archive
[quote] ---
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Hopperdhh(at)aol.com
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 6:47 am Post subject: Capacitive Fuel Sending units |
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Richard,
You can check the gauges and the sender units separately from the following
data:
Empty = 248 ohms, Full (Not full actually, but against top of tank) = 30.2
ohms. This is what I measured on my sender units and my gauges are pretty
accurate.
Vans drawing number "Wing Float Wires" dated 1/05/95 states 30 to 240 ohms as
typical. This drawing also gives the bending dimensions.
The sender units are Stewart Warner 385 series Lever-type fuel senders.
Hope this helps,
Dan Hopper
RV-7A
In a message dated 6/8/2007 9:47:55 AM Eastern Standard Time,
seiders(at)bellsouth.net writes:
I have just shy of 500 hrs on 6A. Have used Van's fuel ga/sdg units
since start. Some time ago, rt side went inaccurate (gauge ok) .
Recently had wings off and so replaced both sdg units. Now neither is
accurate. Shall I assume sdg units ok, and go for gauges, or what? thanks.
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
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pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 7:31 am Post subject: Capacitive Fuel Sending units |
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Jim Sears wrote:
| Quote: |
>> Brings up another interesting debate- those who intentionally run a
>> tank dry to confirm they can switch tanks, bring the Lyc back online
>> and merrily go on their way. Intentionally depriving ones self of
>> half of your available fuel system (kinda) seems a fools errand...<<
>
I have to agree with Mark on this one. I've never allowed my tanks
to get that low, either. I'm always afraid that something could go
wrong with the remaining tank. Not good.
|
After switching tanks a couple of hundred times, what could go wrong?
If you've maintained your fuel system over the years, fuel valve failure
probably is a very small chance. We take far greater risks all the
time. I think the concept should be 'concern' rather than 'fear'. Good
fuel management is learned. I learned mine by running a tank dry at
400' on departure .... when I was a baby pilot. See my previous post on
survival.
| Quote: | I have no reminder devices in my RV, either. I use my Hobbs and brain
to make the half hour tank changes. Granted, I don't change right on
the money; but, it's usually close enough for horseshoes. I
guess my years of flying the Cheetah helped make that transition. I
had to get used to making the switches when I moved from my C172 to
the Cheetah, though.
|
I used a dual timer to remind me to switch tanks. I didn't have
headsets at the time, and would miss the timer once in a while. Then I
got headsets and couldn't hear it at all. If my fuel computer has an
audible output for a reminder, I'll wire it up.
| Quote: | As for the senders, I'm using the float type hooked to simple analog
fuel gauges.
|
Nothing wrong with simole!!!
| Quote: | Mine will only read up to 3/4 full; but, they aren't too bad below
that. My aim was to have them reading empty at empty. That mission
was accomplished, even though I doubt I'll ever find out in flight. I
track the time in flight for fuel management. I don't think my
bladder will let me run out of fuel.
|
Good point Jim! Just think of all the neat places we fly over and never
stop ..... because we've got a load of gas and it's a PITA to stop often!!!
Linn -10 waiting for the shop to finish!
| Quote: |
Jim in KY
do not archive
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pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 7:36 am Post subject: Capacitive Fuel Sending units |
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Richard Seiders wrote:
| Quote: |
I have just shy of 500 hrs on 6A. Have used Van's fuel ga/sdg units
since start. Some time ago, rt side went inaccurate (gauge ok) .
Recently had wings off and so replaced both sdg units. Now neither is
accurate. Shall I assume sdg units ok, and go for gauges, or what?
thanks.
|
First guess is that the arms on the original senders are bent different
than the new ones. Second guess would be that the sender resistance is
different ......
Linn
do not archive
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seiders(at)bellsouth.net
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:03 am Post subject: Capacitive Fuel Sending units |
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Thanks, Dan will try.
Dick
At 10:46 AM 6/8/2007, you wrote:
| Quote: |
Richard,
You can check the gauges and the sender units separately from the following
data:
Empty = 248 ohms, Full (Not full actually, but against top of tank) = 30.2
ohms. This is what I measured on my sender units and my gauges are pretty
accurate.
Vans drawing number "Wing Float Wires" dated 1/05/95 states 30 to 240 ohms as
typical. This drawing also gives the bending dimensions.
The sender units are Stewart Warner 385 series Lever-type fuel senders.
Hope this helps,
Dan Hopper
RV-7A
In a message dated 6/8/2007 9:47:55 AM Eastern Standard Time,
seiders(at)bellsouth.net writes:
I have just shy of 500 hrs on 6A. Have used Van's fuel ga/sdg units
since start. Some time ago, rt side went inaccurate (gauge ok) .
Recently had wings off and so replaced both sdg units. Now neither is
accurate. Shall I assume sdg units ok, and go for gauges, or what? thanks.
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
|
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seiders(at)bellsouth.net
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:05 am Post subject: Capacitive Fuel Sending units |
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Will check sdr res. (Used same arms). Thanks
Dick
At 11:37 AM 6/8/2007, you wrote:
| Quote: |
Richard Seiders wrote:
>
>
>I have just shy of 500 hrs on 6A. Have used Van's fuel ga/sdg units
>since start. Some time ago, rt side went inaccurate (gauge ok) .
>Recently had wings off and so replaced both sdg units. Now neither
>is accurate. Shall I assume sdg units ok, and go for gauges, or what? thanks.
First guess is that the arms on the original senders are bent
different than the new ones. Second guess would be that the sender
resistance is different ......
Linn
do not archive
|
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Hopperdhh(at)aol.com
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 7:27 pm Post subject: Capacitive Fuel Sending units |
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Speaking here of the float type sender units:
I didn't really mean "against top of tank" either. I actually adjusted the
bent wire to make the float go up to about 1/4 inch from the top of the tank so
it wouldn't rub a hole in the top skin! Full is the term SW uses to mean as
high as the gauge will indicate since the gauges can't read over -- what is
it? -- 15 gallons of the 21 gallon tank.
Dan Hopper
RV-7A
In a message dated 6/8/2007 10:49:24 AM Eastern Standard Time,
Hopperdhh(at)aol.com writes:
Richard,
You can check the gauges and the sender units separately from the following
data:
Empty = 248 ohms, Full (Not full actually, but against top of tank) = 30.2
ohms. This is what I measured on my sender units and my gauges are pretty
accurate.
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
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