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engine out logic ??

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akflyer

Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 574
Location: Soldotna AK

Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:23 pm Post subject: engine out logic ??

[quote="kitfoxmike"]As far as the engine out logic, this is mine, if the engine isn't up to par don't take off.  Must be why I have a Rotax 912.  Have a nice day and above all, make the flying fun.[/quote

[color=black]I had a 0320 quit on me on take off... run up was fine etc.. your logic does not work in the real world.. I am not sure I have ever met a pilot that knew his engine was not running right, did nothing to fix it and took off anyway just hoping it would make it another turn around the pattern.



hmm.. why dont you do a quick NTSB search and then tell me you dont have to worry about an engine out just because you have a 912...

_________________
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 (147 hrs and counting on the rebuild)
IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1450
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009

I would rather die trying to live, than to live trying not to die....

kitfoxmike

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 373

Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 3:04 pm Post subject: Re: engine out logic ??

Sorry guys, I don't understand your logic that you fly a certain way for in case your engine quits.  Yup if mine quit I will fly the damn thing down and land it somewhere, right into somebodies driveway if I have to. If I'm flying over water, no brainer I fly it down to the water and steer it right into the shore and up and into somebodies front yard, but I'll be damned if I'm going to fly every second of the airplane worrien about the engine quiting.  I'll fly it to the ground and if there is no airport or I can't make the airport I'll fly it down and land it somehow.  so there. Sure I've had my engine quit on take off, and landed just fine. Do I need to squirm and worry about it in the future, nope, I'll worry about it when It happens.  When it quits and I'm 20 ft off the ground, well at least I know the terrain and I can quickly find a place to land it.  Lastly, when it's my time to go, there is nothing I can do about it.  Lastly, part two, I'll will never fly a two stroke. sorry again.

eskflyer

Joined: 24 May 2007
Posts: 44
Location: AK

Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 5:01 pm Post subject: Re: engine out logic ??

Saying you will never fly a 2 stroke is your perogotive . I love my 2 stroike light weight and flies great . I just flew over Cook Inlet Alaska with a 2 stroke 582 and never even thought about it quitting . Have you ever read how many lycoming's and continental's quit every year in flight . Go fly your 912 and have fun . 



FLyin 2 strokes and lovin it

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John Perry
Kitfox 2 N718PD
582 cbox 2:62-1 IVO IFA
1220 Full Lotus

akflyer

Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 574
Location: Soldotna AK

Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 5:18 pm Post subject: Re: engine out logic ??

ok mike I can now understand what you were intending to say.. I too have had an engine out on takeoff (certified 4 stroke).. it did not end as well as yours.. but I still dont fly like it is gonna quit evey second of the flight.

kirkhull(at)kc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 6:16 pm Post subject: engine out logic ??

The main point of all of this discussion is on to worry about an engine

quitting but to be prepared to deal with it when it does.  While there are

areas where there is just no place to land but most of time the pilots just

forgets to fly the airplane.



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Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 6:54 pm Post subject: engine out logic ??

I am not sure I

 	  Quote: 	
		   have ever met a pilot that knew  his engine was not running

 right, did nothing to fix it and took off  anyway just hoping

 it would make it another turn around the  pattern.

  
	




There is an interesting story about China  Airlines, an Airbus 380 and a seat belt in Germany!



It needed three new  engines before it was given clearance to take off.  Two of the three were  more or less running.  The third one had the seatbelt tied through the  front turbine.

 

[img]cid:751354201(at)09062007-10B9[/img]  

 Noel Loveys, RPP, AME intern

 Campbellton, Newfoundland, 

 Canada

 Kitfox Mod III-A, 582, B box, Ivo IFA

 Aerocet 1100s

 noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca (noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca)

 

 

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Kitfox III-A
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Bob

Joined: 24 Oct 2006
Posts: 89
Location: Damascus, Maryland, USA

Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 4:20 am Post subject: Re: engine out logic ??

Groan, this is how urban legends get going.  



The real story sure wasn't that it was a China Airlines A380, as the 380 hasn't even entered service yet!  



This has happened a couple of times, usually with a Boeing simply because that's what most of the transport fleet is.  (All the Airbusses built in all of their models about equals the Boeing 737s fleet.)  The last strap-down ferry-flight (no passengers) I know of was an approved flight, I believe out of an African airport.  Option #1 for a bad engine is to ship in a quick-change (QEC), but they couldn't change the engine at that place.  Option #2 is usually to remove the N1 fan blades to reduce drag, but in this case they had additional issues and could take off with reduced fuel weight, so used the straps to lock the N1 disc in place.



BTW, you'll occasionally see photos of a transport with one too many engines.  There are a few airplanes with a hardpoint to carry a spare QEC. That engine has no provision for fuel or anything else to make it run.



Bob

Aero Eng / A&P

Mostly work transports & ex-L-1011 field service rep

Vixen in-work

Damascus, MD

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occom

Joined: 26 Aug 2006
Posts: 404

Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 8:37 am Post subject: engine out logic ??

This link appears to lead to the story, with pictures.

http://iagblog.blogspot.com/2007/01/chinese-aircraft-maintenance.html



do not archive

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Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 4:39 am Post subject: engine out logic ??

I've seen at least one plane carrying an extra  engine for QEC.  I've also seen the engines arrive in all kinds of  transport planes.  



The only plane so far that took my breath  away by it's sheer size is the AN225.  the horizontal stab I'll bet is as  large as some airliners wings.



The story I heard was of a passenger  flight on a four engine airbus.



 

[img]cid:157233812(at)10062007-2987[/img]  

 Noel Loveys, RPP, AME intern

 Campbellton, Newfoundland, 

 Canada

 Kitfox Mod III-A, 582, B box, Ivo IFA

 Aerocet 1100s

 noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca (noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca)

 

 

 Do not archive

 

 

 

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Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

n85ae

Joined: 14 Mar 2007
Posts: 403

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 5:59 am Post subject: Re: engine out logic ??

I fly every minute I'm flying with the assumption that the engines going

to quit. 



I started flying in Colorado, and I now fly around Chicago. Both

mountainous terrain, and suburbia have equal appeal to me for landing.

So I always deviate within reach of fields, etc.



Having had an engine failure, is a religious experience. At first you 

don't believe it quit, then you're next thought is "Oh %^$%!".



That and groundlooping my plane were the two most significant things 

that I think made me a smarter/safer pilot.



Having my vaccum pump make loud shrieking noises during a night 

flight made me rethink the wisdom of flying single engine at night over 

the suburbs as well.



Jeff Hays

Series 5, IO-240B

barry(at)pgtc.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 6:29 am Post subject: engine out logic ??

Jeff and all, I am always conscience of a place to set it down having lost a 

propeller.  I photograph from the Kitfox which causes me to fly low over 

populated areas, so it is constantly on my mind.  I don't fly at night, 

sport pilot now.



Barry West



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