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FIRE!!!!!
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lcottrell

Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or

Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 1:14 pm Post subject: FIRE!!!!!

Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2007 2:08 PM

Subject: Re: Re: FIRE!!!!!

 	  Quote: 	

 JetPilot wrote:

> 

> olendorf wrote:

>> I saw a guy pouring from a red plastic gas can into his Minimax and it 

>> caught on fire. The guy had the sense to put the gas cap back on his 

>> airplane tank really fast and no more fire. I was impressed.

The thing to remember is that you should always have a ground when fueling 

your plane. If you insist on using a Mr Funnel, the ground should be 

connected to each of the componets of the process, if not then you are at 

risk. The fluid passing through the plastic openings build up static 

electricity. I use a gascolator to prevent water building up in my tanks, I 

also draw from the bottom of the fuel tank, so any water in the system will 

be passed on to the gascolator. I have not yet ever found any in any of my 

tanks. Of course it is so dry here that spitting could be a problem. I 

transfer fuel to my plane using a siphon tube from a 5 gal gas can sitting 

on the wing. I always make sure that the tube is touching both tanks and so 

far have not had any problem. Hopefully this will always be so.

Larry C

crad238(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 4:40 pm Post subject: FIRE!!!!!

Have been lurking on the list for several years.

     I am a 40 some year veteran in chemical manufacturing.  It is well 

known that the pumping and pouring of a dielectric fluid (non conducting) 

can build up tremendous static charges.  Great pains are taken to ground all 

sections of the system.

     Pouring/ pumping such a fluid into a plastic container always entails 

some risk.

     Grounding of non conductive plastic containers is recommended but not 

terribly effective.

lcottrell

Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or

Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 7:05 pm Post subject: FIRE!!!!!

---

Russ Kinne

Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Posts: 182

Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 7:06 am Post subject: FIRE!!!!!

I've fueled from plastic cans many many times (hi-wing Cessna), in  

Canada & when on floats. Never had a problem, thankfully. Only thing  

I do, if I can, is hold spout closed with a fingertip until it's in  

the tank neck and in contact. Mainly to avoid spilling. 'Cans' are  

apparently non-conducting plastic, marked "UL Classified" Some are  

'approved by the LAFD'.



On Jun 6, 2007, at 11:32 AM, JetPilot wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 olendorf wrote:

> I saw a guy pouring from a red plastic gas can into his Minimax  

> and it caught on fire. The guy had the sense to put the gas cap  

> back on his airplane tank really fast and no more fire. I was  

> impressed.

 I have never heard of an airplane catching fire because of fueling  

 with plastic gas cans.  Was he doing something strange, or did you  

 see anything that might have caused this to happen ?



 Mike



 --------

 &quot;NO FEAR&quot; -  If you have no fear you did not go as fast  

 as you could have !!!



 Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=116877#116877

lcottrell

Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or

Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 2:16 pm Post subject: Re: FIRE!!!!!

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "Carl Radcliffe" <crad238>

.  It is well

> known that the pumping and pouring of a dielectric fluid (non conducting) 

> can build up tremendous static charges.  Great pains are taken to ground 

> all sections of the system.

>     Pouring/ pumping such a fluid into a plastic container always entails 

> some risk.

>     Grounding of non conductive plastic containers is recommended but not 

> terribly effective.

Carl,

    It is also known that static releases occur when two surfaces containing 

a static charge gets close enough for the charge to bridge the gap. It would 

also follow that if there was no gap, there should be no release or spark 

jump. It is my belief that by its construction and function that the Mr 

Funnel causes a bit more of the static buildup than just pouring it into a 

plastic gas container, so therefore if one insists on using it he would be 

better off making sure that all of the components are at least grounded to 

each other. Even if you do not use a Mr Funnel you should endeavor to 

maintain contact between the receptacle and pouring spout. Terribly 

effective or not.

Larry C 

I posted this yesterday. It showed up on the regular list where we get each message, but not on this one. Oh by the way, it was not meant to be nasty, frustrated perhaps, but definately not nasty.

ropermike

Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 40
Location: West Texas, South Mississippi

Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 5:42 pm Post subject: Re: FIRE!!!!!

I must tell you all, I was looking in the CPS catalog. The Mr Funnel  description says that the funnel must be grounded while pouring fuel in it to prevent sparks and fires! Maybe I do deserve to be called a dumbass! I will use the grounding strap from now on...Mike

_________________
The next best thing to playing and winning is playing and losing!...Mike Hillger

lcottrell

Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or

Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 7:07 pm Post subject: FIRE!!!!!

---

by0ung(at)brigham.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 6:01 am Post subject: FIRE!!!!!

 	  Quote: 	
		  >>>>>>>>>>

I've fueled from plastic cans many many times (hi-wing Cessna), in  
	


Canada & when on floats. Never had a problem, thankfully. Only thing  

I do, if I can, is hold spout closed with a fingertip until it's in  

the tank neck and in contact. Mainly to avoid spilling. 'Cans' are  

apparently non-conducting plastic, marked "UL Classified" Some are  

'approved by the LAFD'.>>>>

 	  Quote: 	
		  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


	




Don't know if it makes any difference or not.....   I have been told that

when transferring gas from a plastic container,,,,  if you can keep the gas

from traveling through open air,,, the static buildup will be less....



Therefore I have glued a long clear plastic hose to the end of the spout on

my plastic tank....  by putting the end of the clear plastic hose into the

bottom of the receiving tank, the gas does not pass through the air,,,  also

while pouring I grab the bare aluminum of the plane with my left hand while

holding the plastic can on my right shoulder and holding it with my right

hand...  this is in an attempt to keep the tank and plane at somewhat the

same electrical potential.  The fuel tank in the plane is grounded to the

frame.



Boyd

russ(at)rkiphoto.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:33 am Post subject: FIRE!!!!!

Would be interested to see if the carbon-including  plastic in a Mr.  

Funnel is conductive .  Can anyone with a funnel and a VOM  check this?

The rubber in  today's tires contains carbon  and is conducting. Long  

ago gas-station people would sometimes get a shock from a car that's  

just driven  in . All tank-trucks had a grounding chain  trailing on   

the ground . Not needed nowadays.

Grounding never hurts. How many of you carry a fire-extinguisher in   

your aircraft?

When flames start is NO time to go looking for one.



On Jun 7, 2007, at 6:16 PM, lcottrell wrote:



[quote] 



 ---

GeoR38

Joined: 25 Jan 2006
Posts: 60
Location: The Villages, fl

Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 4:26 pm Post subject: FIRE!!!!!

In a message dated 6/6/2007 4:11:20 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  ceengland(at)bellsouth.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  JetPilot    wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   --> Kolb-List message posted by: "JetPilot"    <orcabonita(at)hotmail.com>

 

 

 olendorf    wrote:

> I saw a guy pouring from a red plastic gas can into his    Minimax and it caught on fire. The guy had the sense to put the gas cap back    on his airplane tank really fast and no more fire. I was impressed.

    

 

 I have never heard of an airplane catching fire because of    fueling with plastic gas cans.  Was he doing something strange, or did    you see anything that might have caused this to happen ?

 

    Mike


	


Happened to a friend of mine who flies a rotary powered RV-6. I    can send 

you his email account of what happened, if you like. He stopped    the fire 

with the same techniques mentioned by others: cap the fuel tank    on the 

plane & put out the fire in the gas can with an    extinguisher.



He won't use auto fuel any more; fuels only from avgas    pumps now.



On the other hand, millions of people fuel boats, cars,    lawnmowers, 

planes, etc from plastic cans every day with no    problems.



About a dozen people had car wrecks within 20 miles of each    one of us 

today. Anyone plan to stop driving?  



Charlie

	


 

 One thing that has not been mentioned in the dialog about static sparks is  that one of the conditions for this to happen is a low humidity day.  The  drier the surrounding air, the more support for the generation of a spark from  the storage point,namely the nonconductive plastic. That is where the charge is  stored...or on your clothing or some other nonconducting medium. When the  humidity is higher, the charge can be siphoned off or conducted off into the air  better thereby eliminating the charge in the first place. My recommendation is  to be MORE careful during dry days, as that is when the likelyhood of a spark is  greatest. Touching (not rubbing) with your hand all plastic surfaces will also  minimize the possibility of a spark.

  

 George Randolph

 firestar driver from the Villages, Fl



See what's free at AOL.com. 

  [quote][b]

_________________
George Randolph
Firestar driver, The Villages, fl

by0ung(at)brigham.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 4:53 am Post subject: FIRE!!!!!

Long  

ago gas-station people would sometimes get a shock from a car that's  

just driven  in . All tank-trucks had a grounding chain  trailing on   

the ground . Not needed nowadays.

 	  Quote: 	
		  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


	


I was able to go for a ride with a shirt tail relative / friend,,,   in a

tanker hauling gas.....   and the elimination of the grounding chain has

more to do with sophisticated electronics that has been added to the trucks

and trailers.   Even higher performance aircraft will have static whips

added to help reduce static buildup in the airframe.



Boyd

Russ Kinne

Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Posts: 182

Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 6:09 am Post subject: FIRE!!!!!

I always been told the static wicks on aircraft were to drain off  

static charges that affected the radios & nav units.

do not archive



On Jun 9, 2007, at 8:52 AM, boyd wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Long

 ago gas-station people would sometimes get a shock from a car that's

 just driven  in . All tank-trucks had a grounding chain  trailing on

 the ground . Not needed nowadays.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>



 I was able to go for a ride with a shirt tail relative /  

 friend,,,   in a

 tanker hauling gas.....   and the elimination of the grounding  

 chain has

 more to do with sophisticated electronics that has been added to  

 the trucks

 and trailers.   Even higher performance aircraft will have static  

 whips

 added to help reduce static buildup in the airframe.



 Boyd

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