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Michael Wynn

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 148
Location: San Ramon, CA

Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 6:06 pm Post subject: How hard is it to wire a panel?

Hi all,

  

 I am finishing the airframe of my RV 8 and want to install an IFR  panel.  I have been looking at various glass panel options.  I spoke  with a shop that does plug and play panels to your specification.  They  told me it would be a $7000 in labor to have them wire up the panel.  While  there are certainly some advantages to having the panel wired, tested and ready  to go, that is a lot of shekels. So I would like to put out the question to  those who have done this:

  

 If I bought a GRT EFIS, a couple of Garmin radios, transponder, autopilot,  etc., just how hard would it be to wire all of this together and get it to  work?  Would one of Bob's seminars teach me all I needed to know to do  this?

  

 Regards,

  

 Michael Wynn

 RV 8 Fuselage

 San Ramon, CA



See what's free at AOL.com. 

  [quote][b]

_________________
Michael Wynn
RV 8
San Ramon, CA

fvalarm(at)rapidnet.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 6:30 pm Post subject: How hard is it to wire a panel?

Michael

  

 Have a look at http://www.approachfaststack.com/   I'm planning to do this.

  

 Bevan

 RV7A



   From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of  MLWynn(at)aol.com

Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 7:05 PM

To:  aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: How hard  is it to wire a panel?

 

 Hi all,

  

 I am finishing the airframe of my RV 8 and want to install an IFR  panel.  I have been looking at various glass panel options.  I spoke  with a shop that does plug and play panels to your specification.  They  told me it would be a $7000 in labor to have them wire up the panel.  While  there are certainly some advantages to having the panel wired, tested and ready  to go, that is a lot of shekels. So I would like to put out the question to  those who have done this:

  

 If I bought a GRT EFIS, a couple of Garmin radios, transponder, autopilot,  etc., just how hard would it be to wire all of this together and get it to  work?  Would one of Bob's seminars teach me all I needed to know to do  this?

  

 Regards,

  

 Michael Wynn

 RV 8 Fuselage

 San Ramon, CA



   See what's free at AOL.com.  

[quote]



href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com



[b]

retasker(at)optonline.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 7:16 pm Post subject: How hard is it to wire a panel?

That price seems a little excessive to me (or maybe a lot excessive).  

Wiring the panel is not so much hard as very tedious.  You have to be 

very organized and make a record (schematic or pictorial diagram) of 

your wiring connections so you know where everything goes and so you 

would be able to troubleshoot the system if anything goes wrong in the 

future, or if you want to make changes in the future..



While I haven't been to one of Bob's seminars, I suspect that it would 

give you the knowledge you need to do the wiring.  If you have not 

purchased the Aeroelectric connection booklet that is the first thing 

you should do.



In a lot of respects this is just like any other task in building your 

plane.  There are a few specialized tools you will need and other than 

that just approach it methodically and in an organized fashion.



Dick Tasker



MLWynn(at)aol.com wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Hi all,

  

 I am finishing the airframe of my RV 8 and want to install an IFR 

 panel.  I have been looking at various glass panel options.  I spoke 

 with a shop that does plug and play panels to your specification.  

 They told me it would be a $7000 in labor to have them wire up the 

 panel.  While there are certainly some advantages to having the panel 

 wired, tested and ready to go, that is a lot of shekels. So I would 

 like to put out the question to those who have done this:

  

 If I bought a GRT EFIS, a couple of Garmin radios, transponder, 

 autopilot, etc., just how hard would it be to wire all of this 

 together and get it to work?  Would one of Bob's seminars teach me all 

 I needed to know to do this?

  

 Regards,

  

 Michael Wynn

 RV 8 Fuselage

 San Ramon, CA



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wgill10(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 7:43 pm Post subject: How hard is it to wire a panel?

Michael,  

   

It’s not difficult, but very time consuming…and fun. If you have someone that has been-there-done-that to ask a few questions to get you started, that will HELP a BUNCH. Other than that, use this list. A friend inquired about a plug-n-play IFR panel for an RV-7 from a vendor often used by us experimentals…$8000 was his quote. The Garmin products are sold pre-wired (on the radio end).  

   

Bill  

   

--

mwcreek(at)frontiernet.ne
Guest

Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 8:04 pm Post subject: How hard is it to wire a panel?

Michael,  

   

I just asked the same question on the GRT Yahoo list.  What I gathered from those responses is that the wiring is fairly easy; just go one wire at a time.  I also understood it takes quite some time to complete the wiring, hence the $7k quote which compares to quotes I received.  Assuming a shop rate of $65/hr, that equates to over 100 hours for someone that does it day in and day out.  I don’t know about you, but I estimated it would take me at least twice that long since my experience/proficiency is low.  

   

Another option is to use the Approach Systems Fast Stack (http://www.approachfaststack.com/index.html).  Everyone I contacted who had actually used this system and is flying with it was very positive about the time saved, quality of the work, customer service, and how well their avionics are working and ease of upgrades.  I heard rumors of a few customers that said they wouldn’t use it again, but when I contacted them directly, I got nothing but glowing reviews.  Several of the builders I contacted were very experienced and one was on his 12th plane.  I’m not recommending this as I have no experience with it, but it is another option to consider.  I was quoted about $1,200 for a GRT dual sport system with Garmin radios and TT AP.  You would still have to take care of all the DC wiring, however.  

   

Mike Creek   

Elko, NV  

Bearhawk, QB  

         

  

From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of MLWynn(at)aol.com

 Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 7:05 PM

 To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: How hard is it to wire a panel?  

  

     

Hi all,  

    

   

    

I am finishing the airframe of my RV 8 and want to install an IFR panel.  I have been looking at various glass panel options.  I spoke with a shop that does plug and play panels to your specification.  They told me it would be a $7000 in labor to have them wire up the panel.  While there are certainly some advantages to having the panel wired, tested and ready to go, that is a lot of shekels. So I would like to put out the question to those who have done this:  

    

   

    

If I bought a GRT EFIS, a couple of Garmin radios, transponder, autopilot, etc., just how hard would it be to wire all of this together and get it to work?  Would one of Bob's seminars teach me all I needed to know to do this?  

    

   

    

Regards,  

    

   

    

Michael Wynn  

    

RV 8 Fuselage  

    

San Ramon, CA  

  



 

         

  

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aurbo(at)ak.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 9:02 pm Post subject: How hard is it to wire a panel?

Michael,

  

  

 How much is your time worth per hour. Figure at  least 100 hours to wire your panel.

  

 On the other hand when you do wire it you  understand it.

  

 Mike

 [quote]   ---

jonlaury

Joined: 06 Nov 2006
Posts: 336

Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 11:48 pm Post subject: How hard is it to wire a panel?

You might consider just having an avionics tech  wire the EFIS, AP, Nav/Com, GPS, etc, so that they all talk nice to each other,  and you do all the switches, CBs/Fuses, grounds, etc. You can save a bunch that  way because there's a lot of tedious labor in doing all those repetitive  power/ground connections. SteinAir and Stark will work with you that way and I'm  sure there are others.

  

 John

   [quote][b]

n395v

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 450

Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 6:18 am Post subject: Re: How hard is it to wire a panel?

Michael,

Above represents some of the best advice you can get....

 	  Quote: 	
		  Have a look at http://www.approachfaststack.com/ I'm planning to do this. 



Bevan 

RV7A 

Wiring the panel is not so much hard as very tedious. You have to be 

very organized and make a record (schematic or pictorial diagram) of 

your wiring connections so you know where everything goes and so you 

would be able to troubleshoot the system if anything goes wrong in the 

future, or if you want to make changes in the future.. 



While I haven't been to one of Bob's seminars, I suspect that it would 

give you the knowledge you need to do the wiring. If you have not 

purchased the Aeroelectric connection booklet that is the first thing 

you should do. 



In a lot of respects this is just like any other task in building your 

plane. There are a few specialized tools you will need and other than 

that just approach it methodically and in an organized fashion. 



Dick Tasker 



If you have someone that has been-there-done-that to ask a few questions to get you started

Bill 



How much is your time worth per hour. Figure at least 100 hours to wire your panel. 



On the other hand when you do wire it you understand it. 



Mike 



	




I wired my own panel with 2 BMA EFISs and Garmin Transponder, Nav Comm and audio panel. I had a remote avionics background (vacuum tube era) and I found it to be tedious, time consuming, and frustrating.



But in the end it was very rewarding and as mentioned above knowing the system has made trouble shooting a breeze.



While I did not use it, having mostly Garmin the fast stack approach system would work well and be a huge timesaver, in my opinion well worth the expense.



Looking back at my builders log I spent  85 hours wiring the panel and about 260 hours wiring the panel to the plane and building, installing, and wiring all of the aircrafts electrical systems. You will not regret wiring it yourself.

_________________
Milt

dave(at)abrahamson.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 6:33 am Post subject: How hard is it to wire a panel?

Michael,

I am the Napoleon's corporal of electronics.  Yet, I installed a GRT 

dual EFIS and EIS, Garmins 430, SL30, GTX330, GMA340, and Trutrak 

Digiflight II VSGV myself, making only one benign wiring error out of 

hundreds of connections.  I bought the Garmins from Stark who 

assembled that harness, and used the GRT and SteinAir-produced AP 

harnesses.  With help from  Stark, GRT, and Trutrak's techs, I was 

able to resolve all installation challenges.  What I don't understand 

about having a panel made is that many parts of the harnesses have to 

be routed through the sub-panel assembly, and several "panel" 

components -- such as the encoder, voltage regulator(s), AHRS, and 

magnetometer end up being installed on the airframe.  This means that 

after spending seven grand, you'll still face a substantial amount of 

work and challenges.  I seems to me that if you have available time 

and interest, doing it yourself is a far better proposition.

David

Michael Wynn

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 148
Location: San Ramon, CA

Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 6:34 am Post subject: How hard is it to wire a panel?

I really want to thank all who responded to this question.

  

 Year ago, I was a repairman for Heathkit, the home build-it-yourself  electronics company.  I have no fear about my ability to solder and wire,  just mystification about the process as applied to avionics.  It sounds  like this is no different than my fear of riveting.  Got over it and am  quite good at it now.

  

 $7K is a big bite out of my budget.  I think that I will take  everyone's advice and do this myself.  I would much rather know how it is  all done and be able to fix a glitch than be dependent on someone else to fix  problems.

  

 I am about six months away from the panel wiring.  You will probably  hear from me again on the subject.  Again my thanks

  

 Michael Wynn

 RV 8 Fuselage

 San Ramon, CA



See what's free at AOL.com. 

  [quote][b]

_________________
Michael Wynn
RV 8
San Ramon, CA

dave(at)abrahamson.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 6:39 am Post subject: How hard is it to wire a panel?

oh and...  without Bob's book, I would have had no choice but to 

throw myself on the mercy of a panel builder -- and would have had an 

infinitely harder time setting up a working electrical system.  I 

used Z12 and have been very happy with it.

D

Jekyll

Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Posts: 44

Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 12:00 pm Post subject: Re: How hard is it to wire a panel?

Michael:



Per others, the Garmins must be "installed" by the dealer. For OBAM, that means they either do the panel or sell a harness with the component ready to be connected by you.



I priced out Garmin dealer harnesses and Fast stack harnesses and found the dealer made harnesss to be about 25-30% less than Faststack. I just finished with my panel and had a lot of fun. I know how everything works and connects so I can do future repairs and upgrades. 



I farmed out portions when appropriate:



Bought an Affordable Panel modular panel which came nicely laser cut for my specific design, about $450.



Harnesses for the following:

GTX-327                     $70

KMD-150 MFD W/GPS	  $50

SL-30		$175

SL-40		 $50	

PMA-8000B               $325 



The harnesses are nicly made and each wire is marked to identify what it is and where you should terminate it.



Add wire, fuses, fuse blocks, CBs, switches, pitot/static connectors and other assundry items for about $700.



The GRT Horizon 1 and EIS are dirt simple to install. They come with a harness that you can easily modify to your needs.



In all, I spent about $1800 on mine not counting the actual components.



I wired up a TruTrak DigiFLight 11, TruTrak ADI with battery, AoA myself. Proved very easy.



Jekyll

Mark Phillips in TN

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 431
Location: Columbia, TN

Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 6:15 pm Post subject: How hard is it to wire a panel?

In a message dated 6/9/2007 11:06:26 PM Central Daylight Time, mwcreek(at)frontiernet.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  If I bought a GRT EFIS, a couple of Garmin radios, transponder, autopilot, etc., just how hard would it be to wire all of this together and get it to work? 	


 >>>

  

 I recently received a harness from Red Dog Aero at Conroe TX (CXO) for a dual-Horizon, 430W, PMA8000B, TruTrak A/P, SL30 & GTX327 for under $3K.  Remaining connections were power/gnd, headset jacks, antennae, EIS4000 connects etc. which you'd have to hook up anyway, but enough wire was integrated into the harness to make all destinations.  Looks like nice work so far, but haven't done the smoke test yet.  Talk to Dick Stevens at: http://reddogaero.com/

  

 John Stark in Columbus GA does similar work with a good reputation and I hear is competitive price-wise.  

 http://www.starkavionics.com/products.htm

 Might want to give these folks a holler...

  

 Mark



See what's free at AOL.com. 

  [quote][b]

_________________
From The PossumWorks...

dean.psiropoulos(at)veriz
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 11:28 pm Post subject: How hard is it to wire a panel?

As one who wanted and looked forward to doing all the wiring myself (after

spending several years doing sheet metal work), I will tell you Michael that

this task is NON-TRIVIAL.  I'm just putting the finishing touches on my all

UPS AT (now Garmin) full IFR electrical system.  I attended the very first

seminar that Bob gave, it was way back in 1996 in Portland Oregon (I

understand that Bob now presents a lot more material in the latest

seminars).  Ten years later, my airplane was sitting on the landing gear in

a hangar with the wings on and no wiring. 



So I set up my old Pentium II computer with Windowa98 and Autocad 2000 and

start working on my drawings.  I bought Bob's latest Aeroelectric Connection

book and also picked up his CD.  I used the Autocad drawings on Bob's CD as

a starting point and went to work.  It took 1.5 to 2 months of nights and

weekends to create the wire book with all my gear in it. In that time I also

had to decide on how to implement some of the custom things I put in my

airplane/panel (warning lights, E-bus, Elect Ign, AOA etc) , get questions

answered and get them in the schematics.  This list was invaluable for

getting things ironed out (the equipment vendors were very helpful too).

The Autocad exercise (drawing the schematics) forced me to understand how

every piece of gear was supposed to work so that it was wired correctly, the

FIRST TIME.  From there we started spending time at the hangar again, a fair

amount of time was spent making my own panel mount with removable instrument

panel on the right side and engine monitoring on the left, as well as a

lower subpanel for the switches/breakers/engine controls and air vents

(there is a company that makes these modular panels for RV-7/9/10 I don't

know about the -8, I have an RV-6 so had to do my own, more time less

money).  



Once all the instrument cutouts were made, the instruments were mounted and

whole assembly temporarily installed to get a feel for wire routing and

lengths.  For me quite a bit of time was spent looking at what I equipment I

had vs forward fuselage structure and how I would route and secure the

wiring to make the cleanest install.  Summer was spent working the VM-1000

wiring install which had problems to solve on both sides of the firewall.

Finally got the two harnesses made up(appx 40+ wires plus installing pins

and connectors, crimping and soldering, after, I figured out how the routing

was going to go and installed the cushion clamps etc in the airframe).  



Early fall spent on figuring basic power and ground wiring and routing and

installing with the appropriate clamps and securing hardware.  Late fall and

early winter was spent on the radio stack, by far the most work intensive.

Several evenings marking, crimping and soldering and installing wire into

connectors.   I also spent weekends working on wiring IN the airplane.  I

bought about $1000 worth of wiring, tools and associated stuff, mostly from

Stienair and B&C. 



Around January of this year I was finally to a point that I took the

instruments out of the panel and took all the panel parts down to a powder

coater for final color.  It took about two weeks and although powder coat

finish isn't quite as smooth as paint, it's tough as nails.  So, back to the

airplane and install radio trays and remainder of the wires behind the

panel.  All the radio finish wiring and routing and installing terminals,

soldering etc has taken the last few months of my spare time.  I still have

a dozen wires left but they are already run and just need to install

terminals/pins and connect.  



It's been a fairly long journey for me.  And to put some perspective on it

you should get some data points from other builders too.  I have been

working on this RV-6A for 10.5 years and it looks like it will finally fly

this year.  It's been a little frustrating because the average build time

was touted as 4 years (slow build kit, not prepunched) and I have not done

much flying since I started the build.  I'm probably a bit out of the norm

as many people have built them in a lot less time and I admittedly have set

a goal to do the best job I can (even though I'm not looking to have the

airplane be an award winner) which has meant I probably took more time on

things than most people, electrical included (most people I talk to have an

avionics shop do some basic harness build up, I did NOT). 



A few price points from my experiences.  As I said, I bought about $1000 of

stuff from Steinair and B&C for this (I'm not including the B&C alternator

and regulator in this cost).  If you are planning anything other than basic

VFR panel, do NOT get the wiring kit from Vans, you'll need lots more than

what they supply and you'll end up reworking most of their harness, a waste.

When I was in Portland, our EAA chapter had the folks at Pacific Coast

Avionics come by and talk to us.  This was appx 5-6 years ago and at that

time VFR panels started at $10k and IFR panels started at $30k if Pacific

Coast did all the work (seemed like a lot to me then, not now).  I looked at

the approach systems at Sun N Fun a couple years ago and again $1500 just

for the radios seemed like a lot (not any more).  And finally Steinair

started doing panel harnesses full time so I got a quote for around $2k from

them, again just for the radio stack. Off the top of my head I would say my

time spent on the wiring portion this past year is 300-500 hours (that

should put the $7k in labor into perspective, but my labor includes

installing in the airplane and theirs probably doesn't). 

So that's a data point from someone who had to do EVERYTHING in his

airplane. Would I do it again, probably not.  I have missed flying a lot, it

was a great stress reliever when I was working on my IFR ticket but I

couldn't get the airplane I wanted without building it myself.  Since the

RVs are all prepunch these days I know I could build a new airframe in short

order. I would however, seriously consider the approachfaststack or even a

partially built harness from Steinair or an Avionics shop, especially if you

don't have the time or another airplane to fly and you want to get in the

air quicker.  If you are on a tight budget you CAN do everything, you just

have to commit the time.  Somedays I spent several hours trying to get coax

cables routed secured and made up (making sure the ends were prepared

properly so the connectors will go together and doing a test piece if I

hadn't done the operation before or not familiar with the type of connector)

and wondered if the airplane would ever get done(it will).  If you enjoy the

building process and are not intimidated by electrons then by all means have

at it.  This list and Bobs book and training should give you the tools you

need if you're ready for the challenge.



Dean Psiropoulos

RV-6A N197DM

Electrons about to flow



__________________________  Original Message________________________________



 	  Quote: 	
		  MLWynn(at)aol.com

Subject: How hard is it to wire a panel?


	


 	  Quote: 	
		  Hi all,


	


 	  Quote: 	
		  .......I spoke with a shop that does plug and play panels to your

specification.  They told me it would be a $7000 in labor to have them wire

up the panel.  While there are certainly some advantages to having the

panel wired, tested and ready to go, that is a lot of shekels. So I would

like to put out the question to those who have done this:


	


 	  Quote: 	
		  If I bought a GRT EFIS, a couple of Garmin radios, transponder, autopilot,

etc., just how hard would it be to wire all of this together and get it to

work?  


	




 	  Quote: 	
		  Would one of Bob's seminars teach me all I needed to know to do this?


	


Michael Wynn

echristley(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 5:48 am Post subject: How hard is it to wire a panel?

MLWynn(at)aol.com wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		    

 I am about six months away from the panel wiring.  You will probably 

 hear from me again on the subject.  Again my thanks

  

 Michael Wynn

 RV 8 Fuselage

 San Ramon, CA


	


One of the things that takes a lot of time when doing the wiring is 

swapping tools.  You measure out a wire.  Clip it.  Strip it.  Crimp a 

connector.  One wire at at time.  You spend more time swapping tools 

than running wire.



It will go faster if you cut a bunch of wires then sit down in front of 

the TV.  Strip all the ends at one time.  Then crimp connectors, all at 

one time.  You waste a little more wire, but not excessively so.

nuckollsr(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 6:49 am Post subject: How hard is it to wire a panel?

At 09:46 AM 6/11/2007 -0400, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

<echristley(at)nc.rr.com>

MLWynn(at)aol.com wrote:

>

>I am about six months away from the panel wiring.  You will probably hear 

>from me again on the subject.  Again my thanks

>

>Michael Wynn

>RV 8 Fuselage

>San Ramon, CA

One of the things that takes a lot of time when doing the wiring is 

swapping tools.  You measure out a wire.  Clip it.  Strip it.  Crimp a 

connector.  One wire at at time.  You spend more time swapping tools than 

running wire.

It will go faster if you cut a bunch of wires then sit down in front of 

the TV.  Strip all the ends at one time.  Then crimp connectors, all at 

one time.  You waste a little more wire, but not excessively so.

   This can work well when building a bundle of same-length wires.

   I have access to machines that will spool off wires cut to

   specific lengths and stripped to specific lengths at both ends.

   The last time I was able to use this machine was about ten

   years ago. The problem is that few wiring tasks within the

   project are bundles of same length wires. Even when building

   something like a harness with multiple branches and different

   connectors on each end, one seldom encounters a lot of wires

   prepared exactly the same way.

   For example, I ALWAYS leave long pigtails on a bundle that

   goes to a large (37 or 50 pin) d-sub because the wires that

   come out of the bundle to central pins are shorter than

   wires that connect to the outside pins. If you want your

   wires to lay in orderly bundles and make graceful exits to

   their final attach points, the only way I've found is to

   cut, strip and terminate after the wire's pathway is life

   is fixtured.

   In production we have machines that not only measure,

   cut and strip wires . . . it installs the appropriate

   terminal/pin on each end and marks the wire with it's

   numbering according to the engineering callouts. Even

   in this environment, production can and does tailor

   the lengths of wires to the nearest 0.1" so as to achieve

   the nice lay of strands in the finished producdt.

   Bob . . .

sales(at)6440autoparts.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 7:42 am Post subject: How hard is it to wire a panel?

    I bought most of my avionics from Stark and had them prewire as much of it as  they could. I gave them approximate measurements. GRT also sent me their units  somewhat prewired. Some of it is double wired by both companies. I have sorted  through the maze but have yet to get started on the final wiring. It does not  appear to be that big of a deal putting it all together this way. Just have to  trim some wires, repin others  and cut the intercom ends down to length and  put the ends on and mount the jacks. I think stark charged me around $800 and I  believe GRT threw it in as part of the deal. This included a 3 GRT mfd,  PMA8000b, GTX330, SL30, Trutrak DG2,. I have never wired a panel before but have  some experience with wiring industrial panels. It is still intimidating looking  at the bundle of wiring to deal with but if taken one at a time being careful to  make sure of the pin out then it does'nt look all that bad. 

 Randy

 [quote]   ---

echristley(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 7:44 am Post subject: How hard is it to wire a panel?

Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  >

> One of the things that takes a lot of time when doing the wiring is 

> swapping tools.  You measure out a wire.  Clip it.  Strip it.  Crimp 

> a connector.  One wire at at time.  You spend more time swapping 

> tools than running wire.

>

> It will go faster if you cut a bunch of wires then sit down in front 

> of the TV.  Strip all the ends at one time.  Then crimp connectors, 

> all at one time.  You waste a little more wire, but not excessively so.

   This can work well when building a bundle of same-length wires.

   I have access to machines that will spool off wires cut to

   specific lengths and stripped to specific lengths at both ends.

   The last time I was able to use this machine was about ten

   years ago. The problem is that few wiring tasks within the

   project are bundles of same length wires. 

I don't think I conveyed the suggestion very well.  The idea is to cut 

all the wire at some random measurement, like maybe 3ft.  That's what I 

meant by wasting wire.  You do all the connectors on one side, leaving 

the other hanging.  Yeah, sort of a critical point, but it's not the 

biggest dufus screw-up I've made today (dang these stupid Cisco routers).

 	  Quote: 	

   For example, I ALWAYS leave long pigtails on a bundle that

   goes to a large (37 or 50 pin) d-sub because the wires that

   come out of the bundle to central pins are shorter than

   wires that connect to the outside pins. 

In this case, strip and crimp 50 wires while comfortably waving at the 

neighbors from your front porch.  Maybe even populate the connector if 

you're labeling the wires anyway.  Install the connector, temporarily 

route all the wires, then cut each to length.  Now take the connector 

back to the front porch and crimp the pins to the other side.

I do the same when building a circuit board.  Don't install one 

component at a time.  Stick a bunch in, bending the legs at a 45 angle 

to hold them in place.  Snip all the excess lead lengths.  Then come 

back with the iron and solder a bunch at once.  The time saved in 

rigging the part, clip the lead, picking up the iron, cleaning it, then 

switching back to the previous mode is considerable.

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