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Rivnuts or Anchor Nuts or Am I Nuts?

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cleone(at)rr1.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 8:00 am Post subject: Rivnuts or Anchor Nuts or Am I Nuts?

Scott,  About 15 yrs ago while building my first plane I bought a kit and 

supply of rivnuts and didn't like them so haven't used one for 

years.  Problem was the few that turned and the trouble in repairing the 

problem.  Perhaps I didn't learn the proper way to do this if there is 

one.  Best of luck,  Cleone





At 01:00 PM 1/17/2006, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



Fellow builders:



As you can see from the following photo, I haven't yet

attached my forward, top skin permanently.



http://www.cooknwithgas.com/1_17_06_Panel.jpg



The first reason is that I have a rat's nest of wires

to be tidied up.  The second reason is that I want to

be able to remove it later and haven't decided how

best to do this.



I have been using rivnuts all over the place for

non-structural applications (like wire-clamps).



For those of you who are reading and have not

personally installed a rivnut and/or an anchor nut

before, here's the best photo I could find:



http://www.torquecontrol.ltd.uk/photo2.jpg

or

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/rivets/rivnuts.jpg



As opposed to an anchor nut:



http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/bolts/minianchornut.jpg



So - after all that - my question is - does anybody

have a good reason why I should not install rivnuts to

hold down the top forward skin with screws?  (Besides

the obvious reason that one or two may spin in the

future - I can get back there to hold them if this

happens).



Thanks in advance for any input,



Scott Laughlin

www.cooknwithgas.com



DO NOT ARCHIVE

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ggower_99(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 10:21 am Post subject: Rivnuts or Anchor Nuts or Am I Nuts?

I have used them in some panels.

   

  What I use when installing them is a little amount of epoxy putty, the one that comes in two sticks and they blend with the fingers.

  Well, given my poor explanation,   I aply a little amount betwen the rivnut and the skin before pressing it,  then wipe the excess, is like welding the rivnut in place.

  The bolts I install them with a drop of linseed (sp?)  oil, to prevent corrosion.

   

  I used them in my 701 to install the LRI and Pitot plates, which I plan to remove every year to clean and inspect.    

   

  Once I installed some in my old ultralight have 5 years there, without removing and last saturday I removed tested the bolts and they worked out ok.  

   

  I think one important thing is the amount of potential corrosion in your area (sea breeze) to get the bolts freezed, removing them for mantainance at least once a year,  may not get enough corrosion to "weld" to the rivnut.  Corrosion of the bolt is the problem.

   

  The anchor nuts are better used for more structural and permanent attachments where holding the nut with a wrench is not possible,  Yes is perfectly OK to use them.  more work, more weight and more expensive...

   

  Saludos

  Gary Gower.



Cleone Markwell <cleone(at)rr1.net> wrote:

  



Scott, About 15 yrs ago while building my first plane I bought a kit and 

supply of rivnuts and didn't like them so haven't used one for 

years. Problem was the few that turned and the trouble in repairing the 

problem. Perhaps I didn't learn the proper way to do this if there is 

one. Best of luck, Cleone





At 01:00 PM 1/17/2006, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



Fellow builders:



As you can see from the following photo, I haven't yet

attached my forward, top skin permanently.



http://www.cooknwithgas.com/1_17_06_Panel.jpg



The first reason is that I have a rat's nest of wires

to be tidied up. The second reason is that I want to

be able to remove it later and haven't decided how

best to do this.



I have been using rivnuts all over the place for

non-structural applications (like wire-clamps).



For those of you who are reading and have not

personally installed a rivnut and/or an anchor nut

before, here's the best photo I could find:



http://www.torquecontrol.ltd.uk/photo2.jpg

or

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/rivets/rivnuts.jpg



As opposed to an anchor nut:



http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/bolts/minianchornut.jpg



So - after all that - my question is - does anybody

have a good reason why I should not install rivnuts to

hold down the top forward skin with screws? (Besides

the obvious reason that one or two may spin in the

future - I can get back there to hold them if this

happens).



Thanks in advance for any input,



Scott Laughlin

www.cooknwithgas.com



DO NOT ARCHIVE

			
	


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tutuzulu(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 10:35 am Post subject: Rivnuts or Anchor Nuts or Am I Nuts?

I'm thinking of putting flat lock-washers on the backside of the

rivnuts before rivetting them.  Anybody have any experience with this?

--

Bob Miller

601HD  N722Z

Charlottesville, Virginia

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cgalley(at)qcbc.org
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 11:55 am Post subject: Rivnuts or Anchor Nuts or Am I Nuts?

Don't think it is a good idea from a dissimilar metals standpoint. They 

already stand proud as it is. The washer would only make it worse.



Cy Galley - Chair,

Air Emergency Aircraft Repair

A Service Project of Chapter 75

EAA Safety Programs Editor - TC

EAA Sport Pilot

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planejim(at)bellsouth.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 3:12 pm Post subject: Rivnuts or Anchor Nuts or Am I Nuts?

Bob,



I agree with Cy, the washers under the rivnuts is not a good idea. In fact 

as I've said here before, after about 50 years of messing around this stuff 

I only used rivnuts for interior panels and things like that . In fact I 

don't use them at all anymore. Go to the effort of installing "Nutplates" 

(there are many different kinds for different applications) especially in 

locations where you will be removing the screws or bolts on a regular basis. 

Since the introduction of 3/32" pull or blind rivets used for attachment, it 

is fairly easy to install nutplates. No need to use a rivet gun and bucking 

bar . Go for nutplates every time and leave those antique rivnuts in the 

bin!



Jim Hoak

do not archive



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tutuzulu(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 7:28 pm Post subject: Rivnuts or Anchor Nuts or Am I Nuts?

Thanks Jim.

I just found out that ACSpruce sells "keyed rivnuts", apparently to

keep them from spinning out.   What would you think of these for a

place that needs rare accessing, mainly for inspections?  Nut plates

won't work in the forward top skin I'm working on.  I'm sure I'll need

to get to the fuel tank someday.

Bob

Say, what days do you think I'll be able to help you at Sun 'n Fun?



On 2/9/06, Jim Hoak <planejim(at)bellsouth.net> wrote:

[quote] 



 Bob,



 I agree with Cy, the washers under the rivnuts is not a good idea. In fact

 as I've said here before, after about 50 years of messing around this stuff

 I only used rivnuts for interior panels and things like that . In fact I

 don't use them at all anymore. Go to the effort of installing "Nutplates"

 (there are many different kinds for different applications) especially in

 locations where you will be removing the screws or bolts on a regular basis.

 Since the introduction of 3/32" pull or blind rivets used for attachment, it

 is fairly easy to install nutplates. No need to use a rivet gun and bucking

 bar . Go for nutplates every time and leave those antique rivnuts in the

 bin!



 Jim Hoak

 do not archive



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cgalley(at)qcbc.org
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 8:16 pm Post subject: Rivnuts or Anchor Nuts or Am I Nuts?

Riv-nuts are aluminum, Soft Aluminum. Put a steel screw or a SS screw and 

dis-similar metal reaction creates corrosion.  Even the keyed Riv-nuts are a 

pain.  Install nut plates is possible and be done with it.



Cy Galley - Chair,

AirVenture Emergency Aircraft Repair

A Service Project of Chapter 75

EAA Safety Programs Editor - TC

EAA Sport Pilot

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planejim(at)bellsouth.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 6:50 am Post subject: Rivnuts or Anchor Nuts or Am I Nuts?

Bob,



The rivnuts have always been "keyed" but most people don't have the tool 

that cuts the little notch in the edge of the hole thaar the key fits into. 

As Cy says the rivnuts are soft aluninum and screws are steel. Thats a 

problem, especially if water gets in there. If you install them at the skin 

over the fuel tank you just are taking your chances.



As for days at SnF, I always work with my volunteers to make sure they get 

to attend the forums, events etc. that they want and work around their 

schedule. As for preference, my main needs are Wed thru Sun. I'll have Monda 

send you a "FORM" as soon as I hear from her! She's late geting going this 

year. I'll keep in touch.



Jim H.



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Larry McFarland

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 36
Location: East Moline, Illinois

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 7:05 am Post subject: Rivnuts or Anchor Nuts or Am I Nuts?

Bob,

The forward top skin can be removed with J-nuts if you configure the

sheet metal somewhat like what I've done at the front sides. These 

J-nuts are for

6-32 screws and cost about $10.00 for 50.  I've had the front top skin 

off a dozen times

for electrical work, transponder certification etc and believe these are 

the way to go.

Nut plates are expensive and relatively difficult to replace if they go 

bad.  I can remove

or replace the forward top skin in about 20-minutes.   The canopy only 

needs to be up

when doing this. If you would like more information and part numbers for 

these, just ask.

see links

http://www.macsmachine.com/images/canopy/full/uclips.gif

http://www.macsmachine.com/images/canopy/full/canopyframefrt.gif

Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com

Bob Miller wrote:

[quote]

Thanks Jim.

I just found out that ACSpruce sells "keyed rivnuts", apparently to

keep them from spinning out.   What would you think of these for a

place that needs rare accessing, mainly for inspections?  Nut plates

won't work in the forward top skin I'm working on.  I'm sure I'll need

to get to the fuel tank someday.

Bob

Say, what days do you think I'll be able to help you at Sun 'n Fun?

On 2/9/06, Jim Hoak <planejim(at)bellsouth.net> wrote:

>

>

>Bob,

>

>I agree with Cy, the washers under the rivnuts is not a good idea. In fact

>as I've said here before, after about 50 years of messing around this stuff

>I only used rivnuts for interior panels and things like that . In fact I

>don't use them at all anymore. Go to the effort of installing "Nutplates"

>(there are many different kinds for different applications) especially in

>locations where you will be removing the screws or bolts on a regular basis.

>Since the introduction of 3/32" pull or blind rivets used for attachment, it

>is fairly easy to install nutplates. No need to use a rivet gun and bucking

>bar . Go for nutplates every time and leave those antique rivnuts in the

>bin!

>

>Jim Hoak

>do not archive

>

>---

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_________________
Larry McFarland - 601HDS - Stratus

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