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kuffel(at)cyberport.net
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 Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 3:12 pm Post subject: Another hurdle (US BFR) |
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Rick,
<<earned my WSC endorsement .. the Friendlies say it can't be used as a
"flight" review>>
Not sure what a "WSC endorsement" is but FAR 81.56(d) says, in part:
"passed a pilot proficiency check conducted by an examiner, an approved
pilot check airman, .., for a pilot certificate, rating, or operating
privilege need not accomplish the flight review"
In other words a multi-engine rating, an instructor rating, an
instrument rating, a single engine sea rating, a multi-engine sea
rating, commercial pilot, etc. all exempt a pilot from the BFR
requirement for 2 years. So if your "WSC endorsement" didn't include a
formal check ride, your beef is with the instructors not the Feds.
Since they gave you at least 1 hour of ground and 1 hour of flight
instruction (the only hard requirements in the BFR rule), all they
needed to do was include the BFR endorsement in your logbook along with
the WSC one. In fact, nothing in the rules says the BFR endorsement
must be written into the logbook contemporaneously. In other words, you
can contact the instructor, ship him your logbook, have him add the BFR
wording and ship it back to you. If he thinks you are competent for an
endorsement he certainly should think you are okay for the purposes of a
BFR.
And just to tweak Pat a little, tiny, teeny bit: The only pilot license
equivalent we have here is for us flight instructors. We have to renew
every two years (95% just take a ground school). Otherwise, we have to
pass an instructor flight test for *one* of our ratings to get back all
of one's instructor ratings. Sport, private and commercial pilots have
no such restriction. They can not fly for 10 or 20 years and then just
get a valid medical (or drivers license for Sport) and take a regular
minimum 1 hour ground/1 hour flight BFR. There is no such thing as
"failing" a BFR (it's just logged as dual), as soon as the instructor is
comfortable with the pilot's skills he can sign them off. I've done
this several times for relapsees.
Tom Kuffel, CFI
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jindoguy(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 4:08 pm Post subject: Another hurdle (US BFR) |
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Tom, The WSC endorsement is for Weight Shift Control. I flew with two instructors, one to prepare for the check ride and sign me off for it, the other to do the check ride. Both were assured by the Lakeland FSDO that because the endorsement was for a new type and class I could not operate the aircraft as pilot in command so no BFR. Once the endorsement was earned I could operate as PIC and could then take the BFR ride. Your local office may interpret the rules differently, but that's the reasoning in Florida.
Rick
On 6/13/07, The Kuffels <kuffel(at)cyberport.net (kuffel(at)cyberport.net)> wrote:[quote] --> Kolb-List message posted by: The Kuffels <kuffel(at)cyberport.net (kuffel(at)cyberport.net)>
Rick,
<<earned my WSC endorsement .. the Friendlies say it can't be used as a
"flight" review>>
Not sure what a "WSC endorsement" is but FAR 81.56(d) says, in part:
"passed a pilot proficiency check conducted by an examiner, an approved
pilot check airman, .., for a pilot certificate, rating, or operating
privilege need not accomplish the flight review"
In other words a multi-engine rating, an instructor rating, an
instrument rating, a single engine sea rating, a multi-engine sea
rating, commercial pilot, etc. all exempt a pilot from the BFR
requirement for 2 years. So if your "WSC endorsement" didn't include a
formal check ride, your beef is with the instructors not the Feds.
Since they gave you at least 1 hour of ground and 1 hour of flight
instruction (the only hard requirements in the BFR rule), all they
needed to do was include the BFR endorsement in your logbook along with
the WSC one. In fact, nothing in the rules says the BFR endorsement
must be written into the logbook contemporaneously. In other words, you
can contact the instructor, ship him your logbook, have him add the BFR
wording and ship it back to you. If he thinks you are competent for an
endorsement he certainly should think you are okay for the purposes of a
BFR.
And just to tweak Pat a little, tiny, teeny bit: The only pilot license
equivalent we have here is for us flight instructors. We have to renew
every two years (95% just take a ground school). Otherwise, we have to
pass an instructor flight test for *one* of our ratings to get back all
of one's instructor ratings. Sport, private and commercial pilots have
no such restriction. They can not fly for 10 or 20 years and then just
get a valid medical (or drivers license for Sport) and take a regular
minimum 1 hour ground/1 hour flight BFR. There is no such thing as
"failing" a BFR (it's just logged as dual), as soon as the instructor is
comfortable with the pilot's skills he can sign them off. I've done
this several times for relapsees.
Tom Kuffel, CFI
when you live at the airport. [quote][b]
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Thom Riddle
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 2:39 am Post subject: Another hurdle (US BFR) |
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Pat,
What is involved with the UK annual "revalidation" exercise?
The Biannual Flight Review required of all pilots in the USA, except
those operating under our Part 103 REAL Ultralight rule, consists of a
minimum of two hours of instruction, one of which is ground instruction
and at least one in the air. To add to the confusion, the FAA no longer
calls this a Biannual Flight Review, merely a flight review that must
be completed within the previous 24 months if one is to act as PIC. But
we pilots are a simple lot and mostly resist nonsensical change, so we
still call it the BFR with many assorted (and sordid) meanings of the
acronym.
Thom in Buffalo
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_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)
Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous |
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pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 9:55 am Post subject: Another hurdle (US BFR) |
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What is involved with the UK annual "revalidation" exercise?>>
Hi Thom,
I f you get the re validation done before the old one runs out all you have
to do is produce your log book to show that you have flown 5 hours in the
previous 12 months (13 months in practice). Your log book is stamped and
that is that.
It is is when the period has run out that the problem arises.
In fact the authorities tell me that Mick Moulai, the UK Kolb dealer, is
authorised to re validate . licences. He will be doing the flight testing,
hopefully with me aboard (the test has to be carried out with full load) so
maybe that can be treated as a GFT and he can put the required stamp in my
book. I haven`t talked to him yet. Hope springs eternal..
Regarding immigration. Thanks to everyone who has pointed me in the
direction of the Mexican border rather than Ellis Island. Having heard,
while I was in the States, a couple of tattooed, bare armed and overweight
Harley riders boasting that they were on the way to the Border `to get me a
Mexican` on the grounds that `they come here, rape our women and take our
jobs. A`hm a vet, an` I aint bin treated right an a`hm going down there to
sort it out` I think I will give it a miss.
Cheers
Pat
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kuffel(at)cyberport.net
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:49 pm Post subject: Another hurdle (US BFR) |
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Rick,
<<The WSC endorsement is for Weight Shift Control. I flew with two
instructors, one to prepare for the check ride and sign me off for it,
the other to do the check ride. Both were assured by the Lakeland FSDO
that because the endorsement was for a new type and class I could not
operate the aircraft as pilot in command so no BFR. Once the endorsement
was earned I could operate as PIC and could then take the BFR ride. Your
local office may interpret the rules differently, but that's the
reasoning in Florida. >>
Ah yes, forgot about Catch-22. as
61.56(c)(1) Accomplished a flight review given in an aircraft for which
that pilot is rated by an authorized instructor
but the exemption for a new rating says
61.56(d) .. passed a pilot proficiency check *conducted by an
examiner*.. for a pilot certificate, rating, ,, [emphasis added]
but the WSC check is from
61.321(b) Successfully complete a proficiency check from an *authorized
instructor*.. [emphasis added]
so you don't have to be PIC to take the BFR but you must have been able
to be PIC sometime before the BFR. Clearly this is an area where we
should get the EAA to lobby the FAA for a minor rule change. I'll send
them a suggestion to add "an authorized instructor, " to 61.56(d). The
more people who do the same the better. The idea is to encourage people
to get new ratings not punish them financially.
Tom
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