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Cutting a hole in plexiglass (heat in cockpit)
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dave.thompson(at)verizon.
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 9:15 am Post subject: Cutting a hole in plexiglass (heat in cockpit)

Hi guys & gals,  

   

I’m not building yet so you can take my comments accordingly. During one of my talks with Mark Townsend, he mentioned that I might add a large PC-type muffin fan in the rear of the fuselage.  Wire it to a three position switch (on-off-on) someplace on the panel. When parked on the ramp in the sun, you can open the front vents and turn on the fan. This will help keep the cockpit from building up a great deal of heat. Wire that position to a thermostat. The other switch position is just on all the time. It can be used during taxi and on very hot days.  

   

Sounds interesting, I might consider something like if and when I ever get to that point.  

   

Dave Thompson  

Westminster, CA  

   

        [quote][b]

Trainnut01(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 9:24 am Post subject: Cutting a hole in plexiglass (heat in cockpit)

Add a solar panel to power that small fan and you can leave it on all the  time.

 Carroll

  

 do not archive



See what's free at AOL.com. 

  [quote][b]

craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 10:10 am Post subject: Cutting a hole in plexiglass (heat in cockpit)

> ... add a large PC-type muffin fan in  the rear of the fuselage. 

  

 Gary Ray did this in his 601XL. Question is, is such a small fan  enough to make a difference? 

  

 --  Craig

   [quote][b]

lo2u

Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 46
Location: Upstate New York

Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 10:14 am Post subject: Cutting a hole in plexiglass (heat in cockpit)

If you use a solar panel there are ones all ready fabricated which are used  to cool a car by installing it in a window.It would seem an easy task to modify  one for the purpose.Also don't forget about screening the hole to keep out mice  etc. and making sure it doesn't act as a water collector..

  

 Sounds like a great idea.. simple, easily doable and not expensive .

 [quote]   ---

dredmoody(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 11:43 am Post subject: Cutting a hole in plexiglass (heat in cockpit)

I have two muffin fans in my fuselage. There's a 4"  one in the bulkhead at the rear of the baggage area that will move 35 scfm which  should actually be helpful if run a few minutes before start up or during a  prolonged taxi. I have a second one about 5" in diameter which moves 45 scfm and  it is mounted in the lightening hole in the bracing channel from the panel to  the firewall. That one blows air from the lower cockpit area up past the radio,  x-ponder, and the two AF-3400 glass panel units. I intend only on/off switches  for both (no thermostat). I hooked them up to a solar panel that a friend wants  to use in his RV7-A and the result was pretty anemic. Maybe these panels weren't  the best available.

  

 Dred

 [quote]   ---

steveadams

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 191

Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 5:02 am Post subject: Re: Cutting a hole in plexiglass (heat in cockpit)

Some type of vent that opens into the airstream would probably provide a great deal more ventilation, even just from the prop wash on the ground. 



Steve Adams

CH640

Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 5:40 am Post subject: Re: Cutting a hole in plexiglass (heat in cockpit)

Here is the info on the ones I intend to use. Please note the 56.3 CFM rate and the 400,000 Mean Time Till Failure. I've had one of these running on a server non-stop for the last 3 years.



http://www.directron.com/acf12.html



Arctic-Cooling Arctic Fan 12 Case Fan, 120mm, 3 Pin, Model: ACF12

The Fluid Dynamic Bearing offers a unique 400'000 h MTTF at 40oC. Therefore we grant a unique 6 years warranty.



Features: 

Best Noise-Performance Ratio. 

Patented Case Design. 

Patented Vibration Absorption. 

6 Years Warranty.



Specifications: Dimensions: 120 x 120 x 38.5mm. Rated Fan Speed: 1500 RPM. Air Flow: 56.3 CFM / 94.7 m3/h. Power Consumption: 12 V, 0.15 Amp. Noise Level: 23.5 dB(A), 0.5 Sone. Bearing: Fluid Dynamic Bearing. Connector / Cable Length: 3 Pin Molex / 400mm. Safety Approvals: CE. Warranty: 6 Years. Compatibility: The Arctic Fan 12 can be fixed by the 4 included screws or by most clipping mechanism to the back wall of the computer. Mounting to the front is not possible.

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 6:35 am Post subject: Re: Cutting a hole in plexiglass (heat in cockpit)

I too plan to install a fan to cool the electronics. I was thinking though I would install in in the top skin under the canopy and let it pull air over the electronics. This could also create a defogger for the canopy.

[quote="dredmoody(at)cox.net"]I have two muffin fans in my fuselage. There's a 4"  one in the bulkhead at the rear of the baggage area that will move 35 scfm which  should actually be helpful if run a few minutes before start up or during a  prolonged taxi. I have a second one about 5" in diameter which moves 45 scfm and  it is mounted in the lightening hole in the bracing channel from the panel to  the firewall. That one blows air from the lower cockpit area up past the radio,  x-ponder, and the two AF-3400 glass panel units. I intend only on/off switches  for both (no thermostat). I hooked them up to a solar panel that a friend wants  to use in his RV7-A and the result was pretty anemic. Maybe these panels weren't  the best available.

  

 Dred

  	  Quote: 	
		     ---

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

dredmoody(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 7:46 am Post subject: Cutting a hole in plexiglass (heat in cockpit)

The undersurface of that skin is curved which might complicate the mounting. The space there might be crowded too depending on your panel layout. The fan mounted under the C-channel takes up no critical space and holes in the top sking would still activate your planned defogger action.



Dred



---- Gig Giacona <wr.giacona(at)suddenlink.net> wrote: 

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 I too plan to install a fan to cool the electronics. I was thinking though I would install in in the top skin under the canopy and let it pull air over the electronics. This could also create a defogger for the canopy.

zodiacjeff(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 11:06 am Post subject: Cutting a hole in plexiglass (heat in cockpit)

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]--> I too plan to install a fan to cool the electronics. I was thinking though  I would

install in in the top skin under the canopy and let it pull air over  the electronics.

This could also create a defogger for the canopy.



Hi  Gig,

  

 Won't the magnet in the fan motor disrupt the magnetic compass?

  

 jeff

  

 do not archive

   [quote][b]

Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 11:14 am Post subject: Re: Cutting a hole in plexiglass (heat in cockpit)

Depends on where I put the compass. Which in my case will be a vertical card compass in the panel.



 	  zodiacjeff(at)msn.com wrote: 	
		  

Hi  Gig,

  

 Won't the magnet in the fan motor disrupt the magnetic compass?

  

 jeff

  

 do not archive

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

dredmoody(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 11:17 am Post subject: Cutting a hole in plexiglass (heat in cockpit)

Can't speak for Gig but in my panel, the fan below the avionics won't likely be a problem except for electronic noise, which I hope will be minimal.



The whiskey compass will be glued to  the inside of the canopy bubble away from the glass panel screens etc. The EFIS uses a remotely mounted magnetometer which is away from all the ferrous metal and electrical wires. 



Dred



---- Jeff Small <zodiacjeff(at)msn.com> wrote:

 Hi Gig,

Won't the magnet in the fan motor disrupt the magnetic compass?



jeff

Tim Juhl

Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 488
Location: "Thumb" of Michigan

Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 4:16 pm Post subject: Re: Cutting a hole in plexiglass (heat in cockpit)

One of my concerns is air movement while flying.  I assume some of the air that comes in via the cool air scoops escapes around the canopy seal, but I wonder if that is enough.  An opening in the rear baggage area bulkhead would vent into the tailcone which I'm thinking would be an area of slight negative pressure.  That might be enough to help cool air (and heat in the winter) move thru the cockpit.  You could even build a vent into the underside of the fuselage if you wanted to.  You could also follow Mark's advice and take it a little farther with the muffin fans.  I haven't made my decision yet.



I think a canopy cover with a reflective outer surface would be a good item to use while parked outside in the sun.



Tim

_________________
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Almost done! It'll fly in spring!

bryanmmartin

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1018

Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:14 am Post subject: Cutting a hole in plexiglass (heat in cockpit)

On my airplane, air comes IN from the tailcone area and escapes through the sides of the canopy. The boot around my control stick tends to baloon out and I can unzip the boot and get additional airflow into the cabin. Somehow, the tailcone is slightly pressureized. The only other air intake I have into the cabin is the NACA vents in the forward cabin sides.

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tim Juhl" <juhl(at)avci.net (juhl(at)avci.net)>

One of my concerns is air movement while flying.  I assume some of the air that comes in via the cool air scoops escapes around the canopy seal, but I wonder if that is enough.  An opening in the rear baggage area bulkhead would vent into the tailcone which I'm thinking would be an area of slight negative pressure.  That might be enough to help cool air (and heat in the winter) move thru the cockpit.  You could even build a vent into the underside of the fuselage if you wanted to.  You could also follow Mark's advice and take it a little farther with the muffin fans.  I haven't made my decision yet.

I think a canopy cover with a reflective outer surface would be a good item to use while parked outside in the sun.

	






 -- 

Bryan Martin

N61BM, CH 601 XL,

RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.

do not archive.

 



 [quote][b]

_________________
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.

planes_by_ken(at)bellsout
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 4:44 am Post subject: Cutting a hole in plexiglass (heat in cockpit)

Most good compasses (and all aviation compasses) have compensation 

screws.  Use a brass screwdriver to adjust the compass with all the 

normal electronics on.  The process is called swinging the compass.  You 

need to find an airport with a compass rose.  Or you could lay one out. 

  Don't lay one out on rebar reinforced concrete or near metal 

buildings.  Then you taxi around and re-align the plane and keep 

tweaking the process.  It kind of looks like the movies of bees dancing 

to tell the others where to find the flowers.  If there is not enough 

adjustment available a small weak magnet can be set so it works.  I 

wounder if a non - adjusted compass satisfies the basic equipment rules. 

  Electrical noise from the fan should not be a problem.  Twist the 

leads to the fan and maybe add a small capacitor at the fan.

Ken Lilja

  do not archive



Jeff Small wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   I too plan to install a fan to cool the electronics. I was thinking 

 though I would

 install in in the top skin under the canopy and let it pull air over the 

 electronics.

 This could also create a defogger for the canopy.

 

 Hi Gig,

  

 Won't the magnet in the fan motor disrupt the magnetic compass?

  

 jeff

  

 do not archive

amyvega2005(at)earthlink.
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:43 am Post subject: Cutting a hole in plexiglass (heat in cockpit)

on needed requitrement, the DAR and FAA will be looking for a compass deviation card in the plane, so you want to go through the motions.  Everyone is telling me compass not needed, but quite frankly, to me it is a nice backup to navigate in case the panel goes out.  I have used the copmass to get my self out of a pickle in times when  rented a plane with iffy DGs.



Juan



--

dredmoody(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:39 am Post subject: Cutting a hole in plexiglass (heat in cockpit)

There are two good reasons never to fly into a pickle. First that is a very acidic environment inside a pickle and will cause rapid corrosion. Second the visibility is far below VFR minimums. This includes kosher varieties.



Carry on. Smoke 'em if you got 'em.



Ed



---- Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net> wrote: Everyone is telling me compass not needed, but quite frankly, to me it is a nice backup to navigate in case the panel goes out.  I have used the copmass to get my self out of a pickle in times when  rented a plane with iffy DGs.

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 Juan

crvsecretary

Joined: 18 Mar 2007
Posts: 38
Location: Naugatuck, CT

Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:51 am Post subject: Cutting a hole in plexiglass (heat in cockpit)

Too funny, Ed.  I needed a good laugh today.

  

 Tracy Smith

 N458XL reserved

 do not archive

  

  

 In a message dated 6/19/2007 1:40:34 PM Eastern Standard Time,  dredmoody(at)cox.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    Zenith-List message posted by: <dredmoody(at)cox.net>



There are two    good reasons never to fly into a pickle. First that is a very acidic    environment inside a pickle and will cause rapid corrosion. Second the    visibility is far below VFR minimums. This includes kosher    varieties.



Carry on. Smoke 'em if you got 'em.



Ed



----    Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net> wrote: Everyone is telling me    compass not needed, but quite frankly, to me it is a nice backup to navigate    in case the panel goes out.  I have used the copmass to get my self out    of a pickle in times when  rented a plane with iffy DGs.

 	  Quote: 	
		   

    Juan


	


	


 

  



See what's free at AOL.com. 

  [quote][b]

_________________
Zenith 601XL N458XL (reserved)
Naugatuck, CT
Tail Complete; working on wings

rstone4(at)hot.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:56 am Post subject: Cutting a hole in plexiglass (heat in cockpit)

Ed,

     If this is like all the other aviation nets I have been on, you are 

bound to get some sore head static from the pickle remark.  As for me I have 

a great sense of humor and therefor thought it was funny as hell.



Tracy Stone

---

Mitch Hodges

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 45
Location: Powder Springs, GA

Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:04 am Post subject: Re: Cutting a hole in plexiglass (heat in cockpit)

>There are two good reasons never to fly into a pickle. First that is a very acidic environment inside a pickle and will cause rapid corrosion.... 



And here I thought it was because their Scotchbrite green coloring  that was the problem.  Who knew!



DO NOT ARCHIVE

APOLOGIZING IN ADVANCE



Mitch Hodges

_________________
Mitch Hodges
N601MH (Zenith 601HDS)
Builder Log at http://www.hodges.aero
Wings Under Perpetual Construction

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