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Breather run into exhaust (nuff said)

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gmcjetpilot

Joined: 04 Nov 2006
Posts: 170

Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:37 pm Post subject: Breather run into exhaust (nuff said)

And in the end what did we learn? 

 

Nothing, 

 

because not one of our heroes has dared showed us how they  

did their super secret crankcase evacuation system with the  

exhaust or wet vacuum pump. May be its gerbils next? 

   

  They say IT'S GREAT! but then can tell us why or show us how.  

Hummmm? Did they even try it? 

 

All I heard was sarcastic "straw-man" arguments and points 

made by saying, "Reno Racer" & "turbo-charger". What?

 

The rest of the comments where about me or attacking me for  

various reasons?  I guess I offended people because I went to  

engineering school and fly planes? Why would that be  

relevant? Sorry I went to school and fly planes for a living. Oh  

yea I don't think PCV is necessary or value added, and that  

really set the tribe off into a Tizzy. I dared disagree; how could  I.

 



Attn: Guys who just want to build your RV, the quickest way  

to finish and fly a nice RV, that is safe, reliable, light and fun is  

to follow the plans in my opinion. You can quote me. Leave off  

the exhaust sucker or wet vacuum pump for now. If you want  

to use it later, research it, call Lyc, Van and yes call a "Reno  

Racer" and ask them directly. BTW: super-charged or turbo- 

charged engines have more blow-by into the crank case than a  

normally aspirated engines like ours. (facts again darn it) 

  

Part of the fun is learning, and I am truly sorry that may be all  

you learned is there's a "gang" on the list who makes personal  

attacks to "put people into their place", so you might be  

intimidated from asking a question. That's a shame. If you need  

help email me direct; I'll help if I can and won't make fun of you 

even if you are a pilot or  went to school.

  

I am happy however if you learned to be careful and check it  

out for your self, not to unilaterally believe me or the experts.   

It is a good lesson, check it out and learn, your life or your wife  

or kids life may depend on it. Be careful with engine mods.

  Building is learning and is fun; ignore the dolts.

 

Asbestos underwear on so flame away. Nuff said



        Be a better Heartthrob. [url=http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48255/*http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/_ylc=X3oDMTI5MGx2aThyBF9TAzIxMTU1MDAzNTIEX3MDMzk2NTQ1MTAzBHNlYwNCQUJwaWxsYXJfTklfMzYwBHNsawNQcm9kdWN0X3F1ZXN0aW9uX3BhZ2U-?link=list&sid=396545433]Get better relationship answers [/url]from someone who knows.

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ronlee(at)pcisys.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 3:39 pm Post subject: Breather run into exhaust (nuff said)

And in the end what did we learn?  

 

Nothing, 

 

  

 Actually I may have learned something about the end  of the 

 breather hose.  Although I am still a bit  confuzzled how the end 

 is cut apparently is important so that you don't  pressurize it.

  

 Also having a whistle slot near the engine is good  IF the end

 becomes obstructed.

  

  

 Ron Lee

  

    [quote][b]

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kboatright1(at)comcast.ne
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:20 pm Post subject: Breather run into exhaust (nuff said)

You do want to have a minor amount of air pressure  going into the breather hose.  To accomplish this, you cut a bevel at 45  degrees or so with the opening facing into the airstream (and down) - similar to  the fuel vents.  If the opening faces the other way and you  are careless enough (I was - once) to leave the oil dipstick loose,  you can find a huge amount of oil on the airplane's belly even after a short  flight.  The combination of a loose dipstick and a backwards facing  breather can create a lot of airflow *through* the engine, which will pull a  surprising amount of oil with it...

  

 I wrote my incident up for the RVator  about 5 years ago.  I blew a quart and a half of oil out of the engine in  about 15 minutes.  Quite the surprise when I landed to have oil  running down the belly of the airplane and dripping on the ramp.

  

 KB



 [quote]   ---

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rocketbob(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 3:52 am Post subject: Breather run into exhaust (nuff said)

Nuff said, huh?  Didn't you say something to that effect in your last post?



  	  Quote: 	
		  And in the end what did we learn? 

 

Nothing,

	


Obviously you didn't.  I conveyed what I have learned, and that is crankcase evacuation has has many benefits.  I am not the first to have proven that drawing a vacuum on the crankcase has many benefits. The original poster asked if it was advisable to plumb the crankcase vent into the exhaust.  My experience through my own experiments with crankcase venting have proven that yes indeed positively venting the crankcase is a good idea.  

 



 	  Quote: 	
		  because not one of our heroes has dared showed us how they  

did their super secret crankcase evacuation system with the   

exhaust or wet vacuum pump. May be its gerbils next? 

   

  They say IT'S GREAT! but then can tell us why or show us how.  

Hummmm? Did they even try it? 

	


Let me repost my comments here so you can read them since apparently you never did in the first place: 



I have a wet vacuum pump pulling set to pull 9" Hg. vacuum on my crankcase thru the breather vent and it works great.  My oil consumption went from 1 qt. every 5-7 hours to 1 qt. every 20-25 hours.  I have the oil analysis to prove that the cam isn't making any metal due to lack of oil splash and I believe the engine runs smoother, idles lower, and seems to be making some more power but I have no scientific proof of it.  I have a flapper door check valve designed into the system so if the vacuum pump quits the breather will vent to ambient.  I have about 50 hours on this setup now and it works fine so far.  I was advised by two different engine builders who have this setup flying on Reno race aircraft to install a new crank seal backwards to so that the vacuum doesn't draw air in thru the front of the engine and that too has been trouble-free. Based on my experience with the above I highly encourage anyone willing to experiment with pulling a vacuum on the crankcase through the exhaust.  There are many aerobatic aircraft flying that are configured this way and work just fine. 



Particularly pay attention to the last sentence of the first paragraph since you keep bringing it up.  You called me a liar since you had no idea how to respond to something that perhaps your vast education and experience did not prepare you for.  Obviously the acquisition of people skills were not a part of any of that.  I get a chuckle out of your responses, because I have no motivation to lie or misrepresent.  I will gladly take pictures of the setup at the next oil change due in in a week after I make a 800nm trip in my RV-6 (not a 6A as you incorrectly referred to in your previous rambling diatribe). 



The exact same system is installed on a IO-540 on Mark Frederick's #84 F1 Rocket which  raced at reno several times.  I will repeat it so you can hopefully understand,  Mark Frederick raced with this setup several times at Reno.  It is simply a wet vacuum pump plumbed into the breather with the outlet going to an air/oil separator.  The engine builder who built his 540 claimed a 14hp increase on the dyno from this mod alone and a 1hp penalty to turn the vacuum pump.  Once the crankcase is evacuated there is very little hp loss from turning the pump.  It works just the same as sticking one's hand on the end of a vacuum cleaner hose; the vacuum motor will speed up because there is less resistance to the motor without any air to pump.  Doug Rozendaal now owns the airplane and I suspect the vacuum evacuation system is still installed.  You have claimed in the past you are friends with Mark and have hung out in his booth at OSH.  I find it funny that he has no idea who you are.  And if you hung around the booth as you have stated in the past you would have seen this system since his airplane is always un-cowled for the world to see.  I guess the fact that he had this same system but didn't document it for your review makes him liar too. 

 	  Quote: 	
		  All I heard was sarcastic "straw-man" arguments and points  

   made by saying, "Reno Racer" & "turbo-charger". What?

	


Again, please do thoroughly read what people post, it will make you look less stupid when you try to pull words out of context to make a shallow argument. 

 	  Quote: 	
		      The rest of the comments where about me or attacking me for  

various reasons?  I guess I offended people because I went to  

engineering school and fly planes? Why would that be  

relevant? Sorry I went to school and fly planes for a living.  

	


Your education/experience is just about as relevant to the subject at hand as the experience a doctor may have applies towards changing the oil in my car.  It means nothing.  You choose not to reveal yourself and that throws any credibility you may have right down the crapper.  I have a bachelor's degree and am a successful software engineer, but that has absolutely no relevance to this discussion.  You seem to be the only one I've ever seen on the various RV forums that flaunts your supposed educational and professional background, like it makes you any more of an expert at building an airplane than people of other professions do.  



 	  Quote: 	
		  Oh   

yea I don't think PCV is necessary or value added, and that  

really set the tribe off into a Tizzy. I dared disagree; how could  I.

	


Factual disagreement is welcome.  Disrespect isn't.



PCV evacuation systems have been used on ALL automobiles in this country since the mid 60's, and the system I have experimented with a different variation to the same idea.  The reason why you'd install a PCV valve where the crankcase vent hose meets the exhaust is to prevent the flow of exhaust into the crankcase, such as at low rpm when crankcase pressures are low.  I have my crankcase instrumented with a manifold pressure gauge and I know what it does at various power settings.  You can disagree if you like.  I suppose you can argue the world is still flat while you're at it.   

 	  Quote: 	
		  Attn: Guys who just want to build your RV, the quickest way  

to finish and fly a nice RV, that is safe, reliable, light and fun is   

to follow the plans in my opinion. You can quote me. Leave off  

the exhaust sucker or wet vacuum pump for now. If you want  

to use it later, research it, call Lyc, Van and yes call a "Reno  

Racer" and ask them directly. BTW: super-charged or turbo-  

charged engines have more blow-by into the crank case than a  

normally aspirated engines like ours. (facts again darn it) 

   	


I don't recall anyone in this thread asking for advice on how complex they should build their airplane.  The original poster asked if it was ok to plumb the breather into the exhaust.  Other than the addition of a PCV valve, it is not complicated to do at all and adds very little in complexity to the breather over an existing setup.  I have an AutoCAD drawing that was sent to me a few years ago by a fellow lister that showed how to weld a bung on the exhaust at a 45 degree angle and which PCV valve to use.  Like I said its been done before, and nobody has fallen out of the sky as a result of that kind of modification. 

 	  Quote: 	
		  Part of the fun is learning, and I am truly sorry that may be all  

you learned is there's a "gang" on the list who makes personal   

attacks to "put people into their place", so you might be  

intimidated from asking a question. That's a shame. If you need  

help email me direct; I'll help if I can and won't make fun of you  

even if you are a pilot or  went to school.

	


Obviously you have forgotten that you have spewed vulgarities to others here on this list, called others names, and mocked others with phallic misrepresentations of their last names, amongst other things.  That's what is truly shameful.  Some things you have said are quite childish and it leads me to suspect that your claims of education and/or background are false, because the sort of behavior you've engaged in is not representative of a normal adult let alone someone who thinks their occupation makes them an expert on things they are obviously not an expert on. 



 	  Quote: 	
		    I am happy however if you learned to be careful and check it  

out for your self, not to unilaterally believe me or the experts.   

It is a good lesson, check it out and learn, your life or your wife   

or kids life may depend on it. Be careful with engine mods.

  Building is learning and is fun; ignore the dolts.

	


Yep, that is good advice to give, especially since you fall into the latter. 

 	  Quote: 	
		  Asbestos underwear on so flame away. Nuff said

	


  Regards.

Bob Japundza

RV-6 flying F1 under const. 



  [quote][b]

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rocketbob(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 4:36 am Post subject: Breather run into exhaust (nuff said)

 	  Quote: 	
		   	  Quote: 	
		   Racer" and ask them directly. BTW: super-charged or turbo-  

charged engines have more blow-by into the crank case than a  

normally aspirated engines like ours. (facts again darn it) 

 	


	




One more thing, you make a salient point about how a turbo-charged engine makes more blow-by.  What do you think happens when there is less than ambient crankcase pressure? Even more blowby? Man those facts sometimes indeed can really get in the way of making a valid argument.  Long ago when I worked on turbocharged airplanes while I was in college, I learned that the crankcase indeed does get pressurized and that is why a gear-driven Romec fuel pump is typically used.  It is because crankcase pressures will an effect on diaphragm pumps since they are vented to the crankcase, but a gear driven pump dispenses with that problem.  Crankcase pressurization is the reason why fuel components are referenced to the upper deck on a turbo engine. 



Regards,

Bob Japundza

RV-6 flying F1 under const.

Taking A&P oral and practical exams on Saturday

  [quote][b]

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cjensen(at)dts9000.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 4:59 am Post subject: Breather run into exhaust (nuff said)

George,

  

 I can understand  you're wanting to hide your last name...I would too, but would you at least  divulge which airline your fly for.  Right now, I fly on most any of them  when the Velo isn't ready to go, but if I know which one you fly for, I'll be  especially cautious about flying that airline on the oft chance you may be at  the controls.

 

Chuck

  

  --

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jim jewell

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 82
Location: Kelowna B.C. Canada

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 6:12 am Post subject: Breather run into exhaust (nuff said)

Hey,  gmcjetpilot dude, You said  "Asbestos underwear on so flame away. Nuff said"

  

 Now we have afew more facts to work with  when dealing with you:

  

 1- You have your asbestos  underwear on.

 2- They are on your head

 3- You have them on backwards.

 4- Nuff said.

  

 Aw heck!, I just had to say it {B-)

  

 Jim in Kelowna - RV6-A flying

  

  

 ---

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_________________
"I never make mistreaks"

lsbrv7a(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 6:26 pm Post subject: Breather run into exhaust (nuff said)

Bob, I would like to see the pictures if you take them.  I am curious about this.



"Bob J." I will gladly take pictures of the setup at the next oil change due in in a week after I make a 800nm trip in my RV-6 

   

  Do not archive

Sherman Butler

RV-7a Wings

Idaho Falls

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