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"Magic Bike" gets Damaged

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Dennis.Kirby(at)kirtland.
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 9:28 am Post subject: "Magic Bike" gets Damaged

Friends -



Thank you all for your kind posts, regarding my unfortunate mud landing.

Your sentiments and encouragement helps a lot to know that I am truly

among friends!



To address a few questions:



(Larry Bourne) << I would've thought the lakes were plenty solid by

now.>>  Goes to show ya - looks can be deceiving.  What appeared to be a

solid, dry lake bed was in fact NOT!  This might be a good time to

repeat some very sage words of advice from John Williamson: "Do not land

anywhere you don't want to be broken down at."  The alternative would've

been landing on the rough, beside the lake bed.  But after seeing it

from the ground, I am certain I would have damaged the plane worse had I

landed there.  Very bumpy - bent cage, for sure.



("jam-n") << can u tell us about the helicopter? what was hrly rate? how

did they do it, any pix? >>  After realizing that there was no way in

hell to retrieve the plane from the mud by land (was about a quarter

mile from the nearest shore), I simply looked in the Yellow Pages for

Helicopters-R-Us. (Actually, AeroWest Helocopters.)  From their home

base at Double Eagle airport in Albuquerque, my plane was about 60 miles

away.  Their rate was $850 per hour.  I gave the pilot a GPS coordinate

over the phone, and they were there at 8 am the next morning.  Fastest

$1500 I had ever spent!  I do have pictures of the recovery operation.

I do not really wish to post them on the Matronics Photoshare site,

however.  Does anyone have a website that you might allow me to post

these pictures on?



(David Key) << You bet I'll be checking mine and I'm going to mark a

mark on the can and cap so I know.>>  Excellent idea, David.  A red line

on the cap and tank would verify that the oil cap is fully tightened.



(Arty) << Do you use a checklist? >>  Yup.  But regarding checking the

oil, it simply says, "Verify proper oil level."  I think I'll modify it

to read, "... and make sure the oil cap is TIGHTLY SECURED, idiot."

(See David Key's excellent suggestion, above!)



(John Hauck) << What kind of prop were you flying?  What kind of damage

to the blades. >>  I'm using a Powerfin.  (I know what you're probably

thinking, John - that if it were a Warp, it would've just cut that ol'

oil cap in half and kept on spinning without a blink.)  Looking at the

damage to the leading edge of the blade that took the oil cap, it made a

one inch gouge, and the laminations were beginning to separate on the

adjacent surfaces.  Thus, the severe vibration.  It appears repairable -

I will send it back to Powerfin for their assessment.  Another blade was

folded in half (destroyed) as the plane was set down on the ground by

the helicopter.  It was pointed straight down and took all the load.

This was also when the rudder received its damage.



(Ralph B.) << The plane can be repaired. This can give you an

opportunity to add some additional strength to the wings if you need it.

 	  Quote: 	
		  > Actually, the wings suffered zero damage ... an advantage of going

over in soft mud.
	




(Ed Diebel) << I used to think if I had a 4-stroke my worries would be

over, but the last three incidences that I know of have involved 4-

strokes. >>  Ed, if this story adds to your confidence in two-stroke

engines, then power to you, Amigo!  But the real shortcoming here was in

fact the nut behind the control stick. ;-\



Again, I appreciate all your positive messages!  I hope to be back in

the air in time for next Spring's flying season.



Dennis K.

do not archive

Paul Petty

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 226
Location: Mississippi

Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:29 am Post subject: Re:

Dennis,



Your welcome to use our MSN site for the pics. Just join and have at it. Pics load really fast on this site.



and it's free!



http://groups.msn.com/login_info.msnw?referer=join&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fgroups%2Emsn%2Ecom%2FAerialWorld%2F%5Fjoin%2Emsnw%3F&commname=Aerial%20World

_________________
Paul Petty
Kolbra #12
Ms Dixie
912 UL 70" warp

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 3:39 pm Post subject: Re:

 	  Quote: 	
		  (John Hauck) <<What>> I'm using a Powerfin. (I know what you're probably 

thinking, John - that if it were a Warp, it would've just cut that ol' 

oil cap in half and kept on spinning without a blink.) 	




Dennis:



You are correct.



Had you been flying with a Warp Drive Prop, you would still be flying your Magic Bike.



Some years ago I put an 18 inch piece of 1.5 inch exhaust pipe through my Warp Drive.  Pipe hit the leading edge of one blade.  Was climbing out at full throttle when the pipe let go.  Put a small ding in the leading edge and produced a new vibration.   Flew 10 miles to Wetumpka Airport.  Landed, checked the prop, and for other damage, got back in the mkIII and flew 11.2 sm to Gantt IAP.



Another short story on my first off field landing in Alaska, 1994.  Cut more alder brush with the Warp Drive than a John Deere A with a 6 foot bush hog.  No damage to the prop blades, although they did turn green.  Alder is a plant similar to mature cotton.  Very hard stalk and branches about as big as you little finger.



Don't know for sure, but I'd bet a months retirement pay you could have flown back to Sandia East or Double Eagle with a Warp Drive with no problems.



Laminated and wooden props will not take the abuse a solid carbon fiber Warp Drive Blade will and keep on flying.  That is why I fly with nothing but Warp Drive.



john h



PS:  Now is a good time to upgrade.  Daryl will give you $100.00 trade in for your old prop.

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

icrashrc

Joined: 16 Mar 2006
Posts: 247
Location: Mishawaka, In

Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 6:55 am Post subject: Re:

Send the pictures to me (at) icrashrc at aol dot com and i'll be happy to post them on my website.

_________________
Scott

www.ill-EagleAviation.com

do not archive

JetPilot

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246

Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:51 am Post subject: Re:

I have to agree with John H on the Warp drive, worst you would have had to do is replace a blade after landing at your home field.  If a powerfin stayed together, the warp would have had a nick, thats it.



I started flying my MK III with a Kiev Prop, it is very smooth, beautiful, and efficient, but it is so light it worries me every time I fly it.   I finally just coughed up the 1500 bucks and bought a new Warp Drive.  The plane may be a bit slower with it, im not sure, but I dont worry about my prop comming apart at the slightest provocation anymore.



I read somewhere that if you have a pusher engine, something will eventually go through the prop, its just a matter of when, not if...   So I have a new condition Kiev Prop 70 inch prop for sale if anyone is interested.



Mike Bigelow

_________________
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!

Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S

Paul Petty

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 226
Location: Mississippi

Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:15 pm Post subject: Re:

Hi Guys,



I havent posted this to the list before i dont think. But I may have after I got over the embarrasment maybe not. But for the Warp drive prop camp here is my story. I built ms Dixie to "ready to cover" stage and ran the 912UL and John H's prop that I bought from him/warp drive and one day on a engine start up test my right wing front attach point pin fell out and the wing folded back into the Warp drive prop.  I failed to put the "saftey" clips in the attach pins thinking NO WAY they would vibrate out sitting on the ground. WRONG. End result was a damaged wing trailing edge and a wing that had to be repaired. the 912 had just barley made it to low idel maybe 600-1000 rpm when this happened. Now how many have had a wing go into a spinning prop? it was way more than an oil cap. 



As for the Warp? one tiny nick in the leading edge and one tiny scratch in number 2 blade. Sent it to Warp and they replaced the nickle edge on the nicked blade and polished the scratched blade, balanced it sent it back with a clean bill of health. I cant speak  for other props but i can for a Warp Drive!



If any want pics of the bent trailing edge where the 70"er hit the splice joint in the TE ask back copy. It's quite impressive!

_________________
Paul Petty
Kolbra #12
Ms Dixie
912 UL 70" warp

neilsenrm(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:33 pm Post subject: "Magic Bike" gets Damaged

I have a Powerfin prop also. A few years ago I had a 9/16 * 3 inch bolt go thru the prop in flight. As most good pilots do, I landed at the next available airstrip. I found some damage but decided to try for home which was almost four hunderd miles. I have heard of smaller items causing worse damage on Powerfin props. I also saw all three blades wiped clean off at the hub after a solid strike on a non Kolb fusalage(sp) boom tube.

  

 As with everything aviation there are trade offs. The Powerfin prop will give more thrust than a warpdrive, has alot less inertia and will break off if it srikes something substatial instead of causing gearbox or engine problems. I think even a warpdrive pilot would do a prcautionary landing after a propstrike. How rugged do you want the prop to be? Can you live with the trade offs?

  

 Rick Neilsen

 Redrive VW powered MKIIIC

 [quote]-------------- Original message -------------- 

From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> 



[quote] --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" 

 

 

 > (John Hauck) I'm using a Powerfin. (I know what you're probably 

 > thinking, John - that if it were a Warp, it would've just cut that ol' 

 > oil cap in half and kept on spinning without a blink.) 

 

 

 Dennis: 

 

 You are correct. 

 

 Had you been flying with a Warp Drive Prop, you would still be flying your Magic 

 Bike. 

 

 Some years ago I put an 18 inch piece of 1.5 inch exhaust pipe through my Warp 

 Drive. Pipe hit the leading edge of one blade. Was climbing out at full 

 throttle when the pipe let go. Put a small ding in the leading edge and 

 produced a new vi  bratio n. Flew 10 miles to Wetumpka Airport. Landed, checked 

 the prop, and for other damage, got back in the mkIII and flew 11.2 sm to Gantt 

 IAP. 

 

 Another short story on my first off field landing in Alaska, 1994. Cut more 

 alder brush with the Warp Drive than a John Deere A with a 6 foot bush hog. No 

 damage to the prop blades, although they did turn green. Alder is a plant 

 similar to mature cotton. Very hard stalk and branches about as big as you 

 little finger. 

 

 Don't know for sure, but I'd bet a months retirement pay you could have flown 

 back to Sandia East or Double Eagle with a Warp Drive with no problems. 

 

 Laminated and wooden props will not take the abuse a solid carbon fiber Warp 

 Drive Blade will and keep on flying. That is why I fly with nothing but Warp 

 Drive. 

 

 john h 

 

 PS: Now is a good time to upgrade. Daryl wi  ll giv  = --&g  [quote][b]

Paul Petty

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 226
Location: Mississippi

Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:45 pm Post subject: Re:

and will break off if it srikes something substatial instead of causing gearbox or engine problems<snip>



I can Rick N.



I dont want anything flying or breaking of my airplane and causing harm to anyone... no offence.



respectfuly



 do not archive

_________________
Paul Petty
Kolbra #12
Ms Dixie
912 UL 70" warp

neilsenrm(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 1:17 pm Post subject: "Magic Bike" gets Damaged

Paul

  

 No offence taken or intended from me. Just passing along my thoughts. Also have to mention Powerfin sometimes on this list just so people know there is a alternitive to warpdrive. 

  

 Some of us don't need to cut pipe, weeds or cement blocks with their props.

  

 Do not archive do not archive .......

  

 Rick Neilsen

 Redrive VW powered MKIIIC

  

  ======  [quote][b]

Paul Petty

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 226
Location: Mississippi

Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 1:30 pm Post subject: Re:

HAHA Rick! Some of us don't need to cut pipe, weeds or cement blocks with their props. 

 



Some of <<us aparently do!!

do not archive

_________________
Paul Petty
Kolbra #12
Ms Dixie
912 UL 70" warp

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 3:39 pm Post subject: Re:

 	  Quote: 	
		  The Powerfin prop will give more thrust than a warpdrive, has alot less inertia and will break off if it srikes something substatial instead of causing gearbox or engine problems. I think even a warpdrive pilot would do a prcautionary landing after a propstrike. How rugged do you want the prop to be? Can you live with the trade offs? 



Rick Neilsen 

	


Hi Rick:



Curious about the Powerfin producing more thrust than a Warp Drive.  Where did you discover that info?



What is the major advantage of less inertia?  My Warp Drive is well within the safe operating parameters of Rotax for my 912ULS.



I want my prop to be rugged enough to get me home, no matter what the circumstances.  During an extreme emergency situation, my least concerns are whether I am damaging the prop, gear box, or engine.  I want something to get me to a safe landing spot so I can get "me" back on the ground.  I can always repair or replace the mechanical stuff.



I have had good luck with the Warp Drive.  Seen it demonstrate its toughness and its performance.  I can back that statement up with many, many hours of very realiable performance over some very long distances and over some mighty hostile terrain and ice water.



Whether or not that other prop produces more thrust than my Warp Drive, I don't care.  I get all the thrust I can handle with what I have.  



Take care,

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

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