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Last Chance

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info(at)jabirucanada.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 3:42 pm Post subject: Last Chance

We would just like to set the record clear.



Having  thoroughly checked our emails for the last 12 months let 

alone 7 weeks we find no trace of any emails from "Dave G"



We take our business very seriously and return emails the same day 

received and return telephone messages the same day also, should we 

be unable to answer the call.



Dave must be sending the emails to an address that is not ours... our 

email address is:      info(at)jabirucanada.com



Lancaster Aero Ltd.

PO Box 56

Bainsville, ON K0C 1E0

Tel: (613) 347-3155

Fax:(613) 347-3074

Email: info(at)jabirucanada.com

www.jabirucanada.com

d.goddard(at)ns.sympatico
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 4:12 pm Post subject: Last Chance

I can post copies of the emails I've sent since the beginning of June. 

Every single email was sent to the current email listed on your website, 

which has not changed. If your email was missed once, or twice I might 

understand. I was even  willing to overlook the preposterous coincidence 

that you recieved only the one on the day I finally said something here. But 

that last is a little too much for me. I'm sorry things did not work out, 

but I'll look for an engine elsewhere.



---

deuskid

Joined: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 26
Location: St Louis, MO

Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 4:46 am Post subject: Re: Last Chance

third option:  filtering



it could be that a sender's emails might be treated as spam.  I've had this happen to me both as sender and receiver.



the filters on email systems are not perfect.



it could be that 4 were sent and none were received and it isn't either's fault but simply technology 'helping' us out once again.



Peace,



John

info(at)usjabiru.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 5:32 am Post subject: Last Chance

I find that the spam filter is the culprit in some instances as well.

Especially if the sender uses some "stationary" that includes graphics.

Also, the filter will sometimes pick up emails from out of the country and

send them to the spam folder.



We get about 300 emails a day at Jabiru USA and 250 of them are spam - most

from spammers getting our info from the Yahoogroups system.  Sometimes a

bona fide email will be in the spam batch and I will not catch it before

deleting (I do take a brief look at the spam folder before I trash it)



Pete



--

donmorrisey

Joined: 17 Mar 2007
Posts: 18

Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 5:37 am Post subject: Last Chance

Several months ago, I had an experience with Jabiru Canada, similar to what Dave G has had.  

  

 My inquiries were for the Italian prop they rep.  It took three messages over several weeks to finally get a response, and the response basically said they couldn't help me and that I should go to the prop maker's website.

  

 Customer service is king.  There is no excuse in 2007 not to be up on communicating via email, and to do it quickly.  If I am going to spend thousands of dollars it's going to be with someone I know will repond when I have an issue.  All the messages I sent were to the address Lancaster Aero just posted on this list.  And if my messages and Dave G's messages were treated as spam, why did "one" message finally get through.

  

 Be careful who you give your money to.



Don.



 	  Quote: 	
		   --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "deuskid" <empire.john(at)gmail.com>

 

 third option: filtering

 

 it could be that a sender's emails might be treated as spam. I've had this happen to me both as sender and receiver.

 

 the filters on email systems are not perfect.

 

 it could be that 4 were sent and none were received and it isn't either's fault but simply technology 'helping' us out once again.

 


	


Missed the show?  Watch videos of the Live Earth Concert on MSN. See them now!  [quote][b]

_________________
Don...
BushCaddy R120
http://www.donsbushcaddy.com

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 5:53 am Post subject: Last Chance

Why do you need to reply to a  phone call the same day?..... What's wrong with having someone answer the  call?  

 Don't think I'm singling out  your firm.  Many companies are t'ing off the public,  you phone only  to get a record player.  That may be good enough for the Telco provides a  necessary service and also who sells the record service. 

  

 Because of the nature of  E-mail, where every letter in the address has to be perfect or no delivery or  delivery to the wrong person, just as bad, too many communications can get  lost in a world wide maze of wire.  Initial contact should be made human to  human by phone.  I'm sorry human to pile of wire doesn't do it for me  and I suspect few people any where.

  

 Nice  product

  

 Noel Loveys  

 noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca (noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca)

 Possible  customer.

    [quote][b]

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

d.goddard(at)ns.sympatico
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 7:45 am Post subject: Last Chance

---

Kayberg(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 8:21 am Post subject: Last Chance

In a message dated 7/12/2007 9:39:10 AM Eastern Daylight Time,  donmorrisey(at)hotmail.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Several    months ago, I had an experience with Jabiru Canada, similar to what    Dave G has had.  

 

My inquiries were for the Italian    prop they rep.  It took three messages over several weeks to finally    get a response, and the response basically said they couldn't help me and    that I should go to the prop maker's website.

 

Customer    service is king.  There is no excuse in 2007 not to be up on    communicating via email, and to do it quickly.  	


 

 There is an excuse.  That is what some of us who are in the airplane  business are trying to say.   Think about it.  If you tried to  get a price on that particular prop from that particular manufacturer, you  might well experience the same 3 week delay.  I have.   When you  try to get a price from them, it is easy to get the run-around.  Ask  Pete.  He no longer deals with them.. (not that Sensinich is without sin  either).

  

 Oh, they could have said, "we havent heard anything" every other day as  they waited for a response that made sense.  But that seems like a waste of  everyone's time.

  

 On a number of items, the dealer is at the mercy of single-point  manufacture.   I could tell many stories about that.  The fuel  tanks we use are only affordable from one guy.   He uses a cell phone  and never answers.  Out of the blue we will get a call to meet him at a  truckstop on the interstate and he will have however many  tanks he  felt like making.  Any other source would be 3 times as expensive and  probably as prone to being unreliable.  We hear a lot of bitching about the  costs of airplane parts, but if you want instant service, you should be prepared  to pay for it.   Check Cessna and Piper prices.

  

 And finally, there is the phone.  We answer it all the time.   Sometimes while we are on a call it goes to a message.  But for some  reason, the people who get frustrated with email seem unwilling to simply call,  even tho the number is readily available.   I often see people on a  Yahoo group looking for a part that I have in stock....but they wont call me for  it even tho I am the only source.  If we have it , we ship the next day  (unless it goes by freight)

  

 Believe me, I know how hard it can be to get stuff for  airplanes.   We finally got a kitplane shipment after waiting for 3  months...from a supposedly reliable shipper!   An this was to get it  shipped from 5 states away!!!

  

 None of us want a customer to wait on an email in this day and  age.   But trust me, it is going to happen on this level of production  and sales.   I know some of you on the list do not want to hear  that.  But an old adage suggests, "Make Peace with Reality!"

  

 Doug Koenigsberg



Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL.com.

  [quote][b]

craig(at)craigr.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 8:49 am Post subject: Last Chance

Nonsense.

  

 Why do customers have to "make peace with  reality" but not vendors? The reality is that people are going to contact you by  email when you publish your address and invite them to communicate with you that  way. You may not be the best typist, and a lot of your email may be  spam, but that is the reality -- make peace with it.

  

 I don't know what happened between Don and  Jabiru Canada, but the way I read it he wrote several messages and got no  response. When they finally did respond it was to tell him they couldn't help  him. Your proposed excuse is that they had inquired of the manufacturer and  gotten no response. If that was the case, why didn't they write to Don and tell  him they were doing that? It's not sufficient to act on an email right away ...  you need to tell the other person that you're acting. Otherwise it's as if you  aren't doing anything.

  

 This spam filter excuse is also nonsense. If  you found out the phone company was "filtering" your calls and you weren't  getting some calls from customers, you'd complain until the problem was solved.  But when customer email gets routed to the spam folder, vendors just accept it  as unavoidable. That simply isn't true. Fix it. When multiple customers report  on this list that a company isn't responding to email, there's more to it than  spam filters. And if spam filters are the problem, fix them.

  

 I realize this is a tough business to be in.  But hey, they're all tough. I'm currently chasing a bug in my software that's  incredibly illusive. I've been working 18-hour days for the last week to find  it. The magic tool from Microsoft that was supposed to instantly solve my  problem crashed immediately when I launched it. In the meantime I'm keeping my  inbox empty and I'm taking and returning phone calls as needed. The fact that my  job is hard isn't an excuse for not doing it right. That's the  reality.

  

 Craig

  

 

 --

Kayberg(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 10:16 am Post subject: Last Chance

In a message dated 7/12/2007 12:50:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time,  craig(at)craigr.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		     Nonsense.

    

   Why do customers have to "make peace with    reality" but not vendors? The reality is that people are going to contact you    by email when you publish your address and invite them to communicate with you    that way. You may not be the best typist, and a lot of your email    may be spam, but that is the reality -- make peace with it.

    

   I don't know what happened between Don and    Jabiru Canada, but the way I read it he wrote several messages and got no    response. When they finally did respond it was to tell him they couldn't help    him. Your proposed excuse is that they had inquired of the manufacturer    and gotten no response. If that was the case, why didn't they write to Don and    tell him they were doing that? It's not sufficient to act on an email right    away ... you need to tell the other person that you're acting. Otherwise it's    as if you aren't doing anything.

	
  Craig,

  



 

 I am not trying to defend Jab Canada.  I dont know them.  And you  do make a couple good points.

  

 I think I am trying to suggest a little understanding on the part of  customers.   I dont disagree with your point of view that emails  deserve a response.   However, I am admitting that I have not always  answered emails quickly...either from fatigue or the difficulty of dealing with  the question.   You are a better man (or more driven?) than I am to  work 18 hour days.   I try to quit after 12.    

  

 I think that if customers can build a relationship and ask for what they  want rather than demand; they also get better service.  I find it very  difficult to say "no" to some one ASKING from my help and much easier to say  "NO" to someone who DEMANDS I do something.

  

 I would point  out that the only way you would know that your emails  have been spam filtered is if someone calls on the phone and tells  you!   For that matter, how would you know if your phone was filtering  out calls unless someone sent you an email to complain?!

  

 The other reality with experimental aircraft engines is that unless you  like engine-outs, your choices in the 50-120 HP range with a weight less than  160 lbs is either Rotax or Jabiru.   You may not like that, but  ..

  

  

  

 doug



Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL.com.

craig(at)craigr.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 11:18 am Post subject: Last Chance

 	  Quote: 	
		   The other reality with experimental aircraft engines is 

 that unless you like engine-outs, your choices in the 

 50-120 HP range with a weight less than 160 lbs is 

 either Rotax or Jabiru.   You may not like that, but ...


	


Oh, I have no problems with Jabiru engines. I'm on my second one in less

than 100 hours so I must like them, right? 



Craig

jimlc

Joined: 19 Mar 2007
Posts: 21
Location: Loveland, CO

Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 7:14 pm Post subject: Last Chance

I have not had an experience with the  Canadian distributor, but I did recently purchase a Jabiru 3300 from Jabiru,  USA.  My experience with them has not worked perfectly, as everything in  the firewall forward package for my Kitfox Series 5 will not be available.   As they say, "stuff happens."  Rather than rant about one short coming, I  am very pleased with my choice so far.  I will work with them to solve the  issue which I will admit was a big disappointment.  However, if I don't  always hear back promptly, I will persist and I am sure I will be happy in the  end.

  

 I just attended their weekend engine seminar  which, I think will be very prove to have been helpful.  I am certainly no  engine expert after it, but I will say I know more about the Jabiru engine and  aircraft engines in general than I did before.  Has every call I made or  email sent been answered immediately?  I am sure not, but I never let my  request hang.  I follow up an email with a phone call and the other way  around.  I get to know the names of the people I talk with or correspond  with and address them by name.  I try to be an aggressive but understanding  buyer.  I just ordered an engine monitoring package from another company  and it was the same thing.  We ended up coming to an agreement and I sent a  check this afternoon.

  

 I just ordered some parts from Jabiru USA  and I followed up the order with an email listing once again my needs.   Such verbal orders are often forgotten and I know that this follow up email is  likely to help Jabiru USA do their job.  

  

 You see I was in the furniture business for  many years and after that a custom home builder.  I can still remember some  terrible lapses in execution on my part.  Some of my customers were much  better organized than I was.  I have learned a lot from them and a  part of that is contained here.  If our list member lets this poor email  response he described remove Jabiru from his engine list, I think he will  be making a big mistake.  Poor front office actions are not truly  indicative of total company performance, especially with small  businesses. 

  

 I am very pleased to have made Jabiru my  engine choice.

  

 Jim Crowder

 [quote]   --

d.goddard(at)ns.sympatico
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 3:43 am Post subject: Last Chance

There's no question that most of the time these people please their  customers. They'd be gone otherwise, which is just what I thought may have  happened with the CDN fellows. I was pleased to discover they still were around  and I recieved a fairly nice email from them after I asked here if they still  existed. I made my request (again) to them and reported back here that I had  indeed heard from them. I was dissappointed and annoyed that the next move on  their part was not to provide me with information, but to come to this group and  deny that I had ever communicated with them at all. I don't know why or who did  that but I'm very angry about it and they've not bothered explaining. I'll make  do with the engine I have for now and hope that others have a better experience.  

  

 [quote]   ---

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