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Mystery Rivets

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kentk

Joined: 03 Jan 2007
Posts: 25
Location: College Station

Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 5:39 pm Post subject: Mystery Rivets

Ok, gotta a little mystery that I am trying to solve, and would love to have your thoughts and input on:



I am building a Model 4-1200 and am at the stage where I attach the Butt Ribs to the fuselage (page WB-13 in the '94 manual).  The drawing indicates that I am to use #95006 rivets (1/8 x 3/8 AS) to attach the Butt Ribs to the brackets.  I can't find #95006 rivets anywhere.  What does "AS" stand for (typo?).



So, I checked the parts list, and guess what???  No #95006 in the wing kit listed anywhere.  No 1/8 x 3/8 rivets listed either.  However, in the "Cover and Finish" inventory, there are #95006 rivets listed, but they are 1/8 x 1/8 PL rivets (qty. 4).



Thoughts, comments, suggestions???



Thanks in advance, 

Kent

_________________
Kent Knudsen
College Station, TX
K-IV 1200 / no engine / 25% done

Tom Jones

Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 752
Location: Ellensburg, WA

Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 6:34 pm Post subject: Re: Mystery Rivets

 	  Quote: 	
		  I am building a Model 4-1200 and am at the stage where I attach the Butt Ribs to the fuselage (page WB-13 in the '94 manual). The drawing indicates that I am to use #95006 rivets (1/8 x 3/8 AS) to attach the Butt Ribs to the brackets. I can't find #95006 rivets anywhere. What does "AS" stand for (typo?). 	




I remember I was confused about  those rivets too and had to ask on the list what to use.  I didn't make any notes in my log but it looks like I used 1/8th SS...stainless steel.  believe it or not the old skystar sent me enough rivets to build 4 wings.  I have lots of rivets left over.  I think you can't go wrong using the 1/8th inch stainless to attach the butt ribs.  If you can't find some in your kit let me know and I will mail you some.



AS must be a miss print, my manual says that too.

_________________
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA

roncarolnikko(at)hotmail.
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:51 pm Post subject: Mystery Rivets

I went to my local hardware store where they have a large assortment of 

stainless rivets.  Instant gratification and only a couple of bucks for a 

pack.   Ron NB Ore KF IV

 	  Quote: 	
		  From: "kentk" <kentk25(at)yahoo.com>

Reply-To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Mystery Rivets

Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 18:39:43 -0700






Ok, gotta a little mystery that I am trying to solve, and would love to 

have your thoughts and input on:



I am building a Model 4-1200 and am at the stage where I attach the Butt 

Ribs to the fuselage (page WB-13 in the '94 manual).  The drawing indicates 

that I am to use #95006 rivets (1/8 x 3/8 AS) to attach the Butt Ribs to 

the brackets.  I can't find #95006 rivets anywhere.  What does "AS" stand 

for (typo?).



So, I checked the parts list, and guess what???  No #95006 in the wing kit 

listed anywhere.  No 1/8 x 3/8 rivets listed either.  However, in the 

"Cover and Finish" inventory, there are #95006 rivets listed, but they are 

1/8 x 1/8 PL rivets (qty. 4).



Thoughts, comments, suggestions???



Thanks in advance,

Kent



--------

Kent Knudsen

College Station, TX

K-IV 1200 / no engine / 25% done





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=124229#124229






	


_________________________________________________________________

http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=hmtextlinkjuly07

l.morris(at)tx.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 7:25 am Post subject: Mystery Rivets

I used p/n 95005--1/8x3/8 SS rivets.Don't use rivets from a hardware store. They arn't aircraft grade. Leon Morris/Classic 4/50%/Flower Mound,TX

---- Tom Jones <nahsikhs(at)elltel.net> wrote: 

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 

 > I am building a Model 4-1200 and am at the stage where I attach the Butt Ribs to the fuselage (page WB-13 in the '94 manual). The drawing indicates that I am to use #95006 rivets (1/8 x 3/8 AS) to attach the Butt Ribs to the brackets. I can't find #95006 rivets anywhere. What does "AS" stand for (typo?). 

 

 

 I remember I was confused about  those rivets too and had to ask on the list what to use.  I didn't make any notes in my log but it looks like I used 1/8th SS...stainless steel.  believe it or not the old skystar sent me enough rivets to build 4 wings.  I have lots of rivets left over.  I think you can't go wrong using the 1/8th inch stainless to attach the butt ribs.  If you can't find some in your kit let me know and I will mail you some.

 

 AS must be a miss print, my manual says that too.

 

 --------

 Tom Jones

 Classic IV, Phase one

 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp

 Ellensburg, WA

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=124239#124239

kirkhull(at)kc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 6:40 pm Post subject: Mystery Rivets

Only a suggestion but I would never use hardware store hardware on any

aircraft.  You do not know what you are getting.  I have seen to many

airplanes crashed because parts were not as strong as they should have been.

It may be legal on a homebuilt but there is a reason it is not on a cert

airplane.



--

flier

Joined: 09 Jul 2007
Posts: 25

Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 11:06 am Post subject: Re: Mystery Rivets

Not sure I can figure out the failure mode that could cause a crash due to ANY kind of rivet being used to attach the butt ribs to the brackets??  



I wouldn't go switching out the SS rivets for the lift strut brackets on the spars but pretty much any rivet can be used successfully to secure lexan to the doors, etc. whether it's from Aircraft Spruce or the hardware store.



Regards,



Ted

smokey_bear_40220(at)yaho
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 12:37 pm Post subject: Mystery Rivets

--- flier <flier(at)sbcglobal.net> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Not sure I can figure out the failure mode that

 could cause a crash due to ANY kind of rivet being

 used to attach the butt ribs to the brackets??

 [Rolling Eyes] 

 

 I wouldn't go switching out the SS rivets for the

 lift strut brackets on the spars but pretty much any

 rivet can be used successfully to secure lexan to

 the doors, etc. whether it's from Aircraft Spruce or

 the hardware store.

 

 Regards,

 

 Ted

----------------------------------------------------
	


Sorry Ted.  I have to disagree.  There have been

several cases of the upper canopy section explosively

blowing up from failure of the butt rib caps letting

go.



There is a lot of lift over the top window augmented

by the prop blast.  These butt ribs are as important

as any wing rib, but with you right underneath.  If

one fails in any way, it will at least scare the heck

out of you and disrupt the airflow back to the tail. 

Not good during a critical phase of flight.



I reinforced the butt rib caps on my plane due to the

advise and experience that came from this list and I

am very thankful for it.  I wouldn't recommend risking

unknown rivits here either.  These ribs are not

mounted to the spars like the others.  All you have

are those rivets.



That is not to say that I don't have a lot of

"roadkill" on my plane, but I keep it in low risk

places.  For example I used aluminum 1/4 inch bolts

instead of a steel ones to hold a one pound item in

place.  The bolt fits the hole, but doesn't need to

carry 8000 lbs, so I went for light weight instead. 

Save weight, but don't compromise strength.



By the way, the item was my master solenoid, since we

are on that subject.



Kurt Schrader

S-5/NSI turbo

Florida and Panama

Shape Yahoo! in your own image.  Join our Network Research Panel today!   http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7

flier

Joined: 09 Jul 2007
Posts: 25

Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 11:54 am Post subject: Re: Mystery Rivets

I hear what you're saying Kurt but I'd challenge you to shear off a butt rib from the brackets when secured with regular mandrel standard rivets.  You couldn't do it.



I'd more think it possible to peel the lexan up off the butt ribs than to shear the butt ribs off as the rivets holding the plastic down are in tension.



The beauty of homebuilts is that we all have the right to use our own intelligence to the extent we feel comfortable...



Regards,



Ted

kirkhull(at)kc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:21 pm Post subject: Mystery Rivets

I would agree that on this installation you would be ok.  The problem arises

when the left over rivets get mixed in with other aircraft parts and end up

getting used somewhere where they could cause a problem.



--

smokey_bear_40220(at)yaho
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:41 pm Post subject: Mystery Rivets

No problem at all Ted,



I wasn't trying make it an argument, but to keep us

thinking safety first.  One of our school trained

safety folks here....



We already know of flapperon brackets pulling the

rivets thru the ribs too.  And it isn't the rivets

failing in the canopys either.  It is the cap strips

pulling free.  Make it stronger, not weaker in my

opinion.



I am just a suspenders and belt guy....  Not inclined

to make substitutes in areas because I don't see how

they can fail.  But I do if I clearly see that I've

got plenety of strength and no easy failure mode. Thus

light weight wins where strength is plenty.  On the

other hand, I've added strength in some areas too.



Kurt Schrader



Do not archive



--- flier <flier(at)sbcglobal.net> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   I hear what you're saying Kurt but I'd challenge you

 to shear off a butt rib from the brackets when

 secured with regular mandrel standard rivets.  You

 couldn't do it.

 

 I'd more think it possible to peel the lexan up off

 the butt ribs than to shear the butt ribs off as the

 rivets holding the plastic down are in tension.

 

 The beauty of homebuilts is that we all have the

 right to use our own intelligence to the extent we

 feel comfortable...

 

 Regards,

 

 Ted


	




       

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kentk

Joined: 03 Jan 2007
Posts: 25
Location: College Station

Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 6:46 pm Post subject: Re: Mystery Rivets

Thank you everyone for the thoughts and comments!  I am going to go with the #95004 1/8 x 1/4 SS rivets from the kit (the #95005 seem to be too long).



Regards,

Kent

_________________
Kent Knudsen
College Station, TX
K-IV 1200 / no engine / 25% done

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 10:56 am Post subject: Mystery Rivets

There should be around 1.5X the diameter of the  rivet showing through the hole before the shop tail is formed.  If there is  more than that amount cut the rivet to the right length.



 

[img]cid:153364618(at)21072007-2FB3[/img]  

 Noel Loveys, RPP, AME intern

 Campbellton, Newfoundland, 

 Canada

 Kitfox Mod III-A, 582, B box, Ivo IFA

 Aerocet 1100s

 noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca (noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca)

 

 

 

 

 



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Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

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