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gus.fraser(at)gs.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 8:03 am Post subject: Flight suits, again.....

Spencer has been working with a few makers of suits to get them to make

suits that work for pilots rather than just race drivers. About a year ago I

wrote an article for the Tbirds mag posted here and I think still in the

archive. I sent a sample of nomex off for testing $25 to the people that

test racing suits. Basically they said that in an 1800 deg fire you get

about 1-2 seconds of protection. Personally if my aircraft has flipped over

and catches I want about 10 to get out (also halon extinguisher in the

cockpit). 



Wearing a nomex green suit does nothing but increase the chances of getting

lucky in the bar, and even that is debatable. Imagine there you are in your

green suit wearing lets say a mixture of man made and synthetic gear

underneath. Have you any idea how many hours of surgery it is going to take

to get that out of your skin ?



I now use carbonX underwear which gives 10 seconds protection at 1800 deg

and by all means wear the green thing over the top, cause lets face it we

all want to get lucky. 



This became a concern to me when I got the Sp which is a bubble canopy tail

wheel. The chances of flipping in an off field are MUCH higher now and if

that happens I am not sure that I could open the canopy. I now have a device

to break the glass, a Halon fire extinguisher and my carbonX under wear (BTW

Janet, the company I got my stuff from make ladies undergarments also).



My 10 second window comes from the fact that if in such an event I need to

get the SP is quite well sealed, unlike the 52. Any in cockpit fire I am

hoping a quick burst of halon can deal with, bust the canopy spray halon on

any out of cockpit fire and run like hell.



Spencer does some great safety stuff his site is well worth a check out

www.beasafepilot.com his web site.



--

jon(at)email.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 8:14 am Post subject: Flight suits, again.....

Does CarbonX make a thong?



Jon



[quote] 



 Spencer has been working with a few makers of suits to get them to make

 suits that work for pilots rather than just race drivers. About a year ago

 I

 wrote an article for the Tbirds mag posted here and I think still in the

 archive. I sent a sample of nomex off for testing $25 to the people that

 test racing suits. Basically they said that in an 1800 deg fire you get

 about 1-2 seconds of protection. Personally if my aircraft has flipped

 over

 and catches I want about 10 to get out (also halon extinguisher in the

 cockpit).



 Wearing a nomex green suit does nothing but increase the chances of

 getting

 lucky in the bar, and even that is debatable. Imagine there you are in

 your

 green suit wearing lets say a mixture of man made and synthetic gear

 underneath. Have you any idea how many hours of surgery it is going to

 take

 to get that out of your skin ?



 I now use carbonX underwear which gives 10 seconds protection at 1800 deg

 and by all means wear the green thing over the top, cause lets face it we

 all want to get lucky.



 This became a concern to me when I got the Sp which is a bubble canopy

 tail

 wheel. The chances of flipping in an off field are MUCH higher now and if

 that happens I am not sure that I could open the canopy. I now have a

 device

 to break the glass, a Halon fire extinguisher and my carbonX under wear

 (BTW

 Janet, the company I got my stuff from make ladies undergarments also).



 My 10 second window comes from the fact that if in such an event I need to

 get the SP is quite well sealed, unlike the 52. Any in cockpit fire I am

 hoping a quick burst of halon can deal with, bust the canopy spray halon

 on

 any out of cockpit fire and run like hell.



 Spencer does some great safety stuff his site is well worth a check out

 www.beasafepilot.com his web site.



 --

ggg6(at)att.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 8:14 am Post subject: Flight suits, again.....

Hi Gus,, Gary Gabbard here... Halon is a great extingusher, but remember if your cockpit is sealed fairly tight, a discharge of  Halon will displace the oxygen, and the occupant will be unconsious very quickly. That was always a big concern in the big simulator bays at the airline training facilities when we were taking check rides or training, as they have very large Halon tanks installed in the simulator rooms, to flood the place with Halon. I always figured that they wanted to save the Simulators, and not concerned with the pilots, Simulators cost the company money, pilots are expendable...  Just a thought... Gary 

 [quote]-------------- Original message from "Fraser, Gus" <gus.fraser(at)gs.com>: -------------- 

[quote] --> Yak-List message posted by: "Fraser, Gus" 

 

 Spencer has been working with a few makers of suits to get them to make 

 suits that work for pilots rather than just race drivers. About a year ago I 

 wrote an article for the Tbirds mag posted here and I think still in the 

 archive. I sent a sample of nomex off for testing $25 to the people that 

 test racing suits. Basically they said that in an 1800 deg fire you get 

 about 1-2 seconds of protection. Personally if my aircraft has flipped over 

 and catches I want about 10 to get out (also halon extinguisher in the 

 cockpit). 

 

 Wearing a nomex green suit does nothing but increase the chances of getting 

 lucky in the bar  , and even that is debatable. Imagine there you are in your 

 green suit wearing lets say a mixture of man made and synthetic gear 

 underneath. Have you any idea how many hours of surgery it is going to take 

 to get that out of your skin ? 

 

 I now use carbonX underwear which gives 10 seconds protection at 1800 deg 

 and by all means wear the green thing over the top, cause lets face it we 

 all want to get lucky. 

 

 This became a concern to me when I got the Sp which is a bubble canopy tail 

 wheel. The chances of flipping in an off field are MUCH higher now and if 

 that happens I am not sure that I could open the canopy. I now have a device 

 to break the glass, a Halon fire extinguisher and my carbonX under wear (BTW 

 Janet, the company I got my stuff from make ladies undergarments also). 

 

 My 10 second window comes from the fact that if in such an event I need   to 

 get the SP is quite well sealed, unlike the 52. Any in cockpit fire I am 

 hoping a quick burst of halon can deal with, bust the canopy spray halon on 

 any out of cockpit fire and run like hell. 

 

 Spencer does some great safety stuff his site is well worth a check out 

 www.beasafepilot.com his web site. 

 

 --

gus.fraser(at)gs.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 8:52 am Post subject: Flight suits, again.....

Banana hammocks are a thong of the past.



Gus 



--

gus.fraser(at)gs.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 8:53 am Post subject: Flight suits, again.....

I know, I have thought about that and I will promise to try  and break the worlds record for holding my breath if the worst happens, I figure  the trade off with the effectiveness of Halon kind of evens  out.

  

 Gus



 [quote]         From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com    [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of    ggg6(at)att.net

Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 11:14    AM

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE:    Flight suits, again.....

   

   

Hi Gus,, Gary Gabbard here... Halon is a great extingusher, but    remember if your cockpit is sealed fairly tight, a discharge of  Halon    will displace the oxygen, and the occupant will be unconsious very quickly.    That was always a big concern in the big simulator bays at the airline    training facilities when we were taking check rides or training, as they have    very large Halon tanks installed in the simulator rooms, to flood    the place with Halon. I always figured that they wanted to save the    Simulators, and not concerned with the pilots, Simulators cost the company    money, pilots are expendable...  Just a thought... Gary 

   [quote]--------------      Original message from "Fraser, Gus" <gus.fraser(at)gs.com>:      -------------- 

[quote] --> Yak-List message posted by: "Fraser,      Gus" 

 

 Spencer has been working with a      few makers of suits to get them to make 

 suits that work for pilots      rather than just race drivers. About a year ago I 

 wrote an article      for the Tbirds mag posted here and I think still in the 

 archive. I      sent a sample of nomex off for testing $25 to the people that 

 test      racing suits. Basically they said that in an 1800 deg fire you get 

      about 1-2 seconds of protection. Personally if my aircraft has flipped over      

 and catches I want about 10 to get out (also halon extinguisher in      the 

 cockpit). 

 

 Wearing a nomex green suit does      nothing but increase the chances of getting 

 lucky in the bar , and      even that is debatable. Imagine there you are in your 

 green suit      wearing lets say a mixture of man made and synthetic gear 

      underneath. Have you any idea how many hours of surgery it is going to take      

 to get that out of your skin ? 

 

 I now use carbonX      underwear which gives 10 seconds protection at 1800 deg 

 and by all      means wear the green thing over the top, cause lets face it we 

 all      want to get lucky. 

 

 This became a concern to me when I got      the Sp which is a bubble canopy tail 

 wheel. The chances of flipping      in an off field are MUCH higher now and if 

 that happens I am not      sure that I could open the canopy. I now have a device 

 to break the      glass, a Halon fire extinguisher and my carbonX under wear (BTW 

      Janet, the company I got my stuff from make ladies undergarments also).      

 

 My 10 second window comes from the fact that if in such an      event I need to 

 get the SP is quite well sealed, unlike the 52. Any      in cockpit fire I am 

 hoping a quick burst of halon can deal with,      bust the canopy spray halon on 

 any out of cockpit fire and run like      hell. 

 

 Spencer does some great safety stuff his site is      well worth a check out 

 www.beasafepilot.com his web site. 

      

 --

viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 11:04 am Post subject: Flight suits, again.....

What's a little Hypoxia in close places? It'll make you not care that your nuts are roasting in the fire.

  Doc

  

 



  

 [quote] ---

david(at)mcgirt.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 2:28 pm Post subject: Flight suits, again.....

"Wearing a nomex green suit does nothing but increase the chances of 

getting lucky in the bar"



DUH!  Why the hell do you think we all wear them!  Well, that , and the fact

that the RedStar group looks like a group at FunFly's.. call it an

unofficial uniform.. 



Seriously though, that is great information.  Thank you for sharing it.

David

--

BitterlichMG(at)cherrypoi
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 3:26 pm Post subject: Flight suits, again.....

I am sure there are those that are just WAITING for me to come out of the woodwork on THIS issue, and are saying small prayers for me to just keep my mouth shut.    

Sorry...    

Since the real truth about Flight Suits is finally out in the open (and may I say it's about time?), would it be a sin to propose that the requirement to wear a Flight Suit for any RPA FAST Card training be waived?  That is, as long as there is not a public audience at the training event?    

My point being.... I can fully understand the desire to look good in front of the public, and that the wearing of shorts and tea-shirts doesn't convey the kind of professionalism that a worn out Flight Suit covered with "I've been there and done that" patches does.... not to mention increasing the chances of getting "Lucky".  That said, calling the Flight Suit an UNOFFICIAL (or even OFFICIAL) uniform actually makes sense.   

Can I go even further and suggest that the organization adopt the same rules concerning parachutes that the FAA does?     

Probably not....    

Oh well, never mind.     

Mark Bitterlich  

N50YK  

  

   

 

 

  

--

Frank

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 69

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 4:07 pm Post subject: Flight suits, again.....

Mark

  

 Though  I agree with ya' I think your pissin' in the wind........... For me it's the one  sore point with RedStars. Everything else about the organization I can agree  with.

  

 One  day, at a RedStars event someone is going to say "Frank, you can't fly because  you don't have a suit". To which I will respond....."OK, then I won't fly".  

  

 Simple, isn't it?

  

 Best  Regards

 Frank

  

 [quote]   

   --

BitterlichMG(at)cherrypoi
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 4:50 pm Post subject: Flight suits, again.....

Frank  (and all),  

  

 What  Redstar requires of their members at events is to me... a Redstar member issue  and one that I personally am NOT commenting on.  And as you said, every  member has the right to simply refuse to fly.  

  

 My  comment was directed 100% ONLY at receiving training.  Nothing  else.  Not air shows, not fly-in's, etc.  Simply training  events.  

  

 Best  regards, 

  

 Mark  Bitterlich

 N50YK

 [quote]   --

brian

Joined: 02 Jan 2006
Posts: 643
Location: Sacramento, California, USA

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 8:37 pm Post subject: Flight suits, again.....

David McGirt wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 "Wearing a nomex green suit does nothing but increase the chances of 

 getting lucky in the bar"


	


Uh, that only works if your abs are a six pack. If you happen to have

had a few too many beers in your life you are probably sporting a keg

instead of a six pack. A Nomex flight suit does NOT help in that case.



-- 

Brian Lloyd                         361 Catterline Way

brian-yak at lloyd dot com          Folsom, CA 95630

+1.916.367.2131 (voice)             +1.270.912.0788 (fax)



I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .

- Antoine de Saint-Exupery

_________________
Brian Lloyd
brian-yak at lloyd dot com
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)

I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery

brian

Joined: 02 Jan 2006
Posts: 643
Location: Sacramento, California, USA

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 8:50 pm Post subject: Flight suits, again.....

Frank Haertlein wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Mark

  

 Though I agree with ya' I think your pissin' in the wind........... For

 me it's the one sore point with RedStars. Everything else about the

 organization I can agree with.

  

 One day, at a RedStars event someone is going to say "Frank, you can't

 fly because you don't have a suit". To which I will respond....."OK,

 then I won't fly".


	


No, to which I think you should reply, "this is a public use airfield. I

am a licensed pilot in an airworthy aircraft. All the documentation is

correct per FAA requirements. These are my friends. The airport is open

for normal operations. If I choose to fly in a formation training flight

and you don't like it, please by my guest and go pound sand up your ass."



It is my fervent desire that this annoy the hell out of those whose

desire it is to craft useless and annoying rules and cram them down

other people's throats. There are many government agencies that provide

this service. I do not need it from RPA, AOPA, EAA, or any other service

organization to which I belong.



But not like its important or anything.  



-- 

Brian Lloyd                         361 Catterline Way

brian-yak at lloyd dot com          Folsom, CA 95630

+1.916.367.2131 (voice)             +1.270.912.0788 (fax)



I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .

- Antoine de Saint-Exupery

aerobaticgirl(at)yahoo.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 10:34 pm Post subject: Flight suits, again.....

I disagree with you guys that are saying that a flt suit is only good for picking up chicks.  Having worn a flight suit for the past 9 years, I have come to know them quite well.  Doc can probably back me up on this one...a viper dude had his giblets roasted because he wore silk boxers on a flight that ended poorly, but the rest of his body was fine.  Point is, that it isn't fire *proof*, but it is fire retardant.  Had he been wearing cotton drawers the story would be different.  

   

  I always wear cotton everything, and I mean everything when I fly my plane OR when I am on any airliner.  Why not give you the added chance of survival?  I don't wear a flt suit to acro competitions cuz I can't bring myself to look like a dork wearing a flt suit when I am off duty....but I think in an org like RPA that it isn't a bad idea.  Go thru the smoke course in OKC if you get a chance.  They give you a gnd course   on what  happens in a survivable airline crash and how the plastic melts on you.  They show you what happens to ladies that wear nylons on flights and dudes in polyester pants...ick.  Then they fill the cabin with 'chocolate smoke' and let you see the limited vis in such a situation.  Anyway, I go on, but the point is...never compromise on safety!  

   

  Smash



 	 		 Yahoo! Mail

  [url=http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/taglines/pmall2/*http://photomail.mail.yahoo.com]Use Photomail[/url] to share photos without annoying attachments.

gus.fraser(at)gs.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 5:53 am Post subject: Flight suits, again.....

100 %, kinda like my nads just the way they are. Smash, if  your interested the carbon X underwear is not only not going to melt but will  give extra protection. When I said underwear I mean long johns type of stuff but  specifically they do make bras and I understand that they are the only people to  make them. The owners wife, a race car driver decided to start making them for  herself. The company is Design500 http://www.design500.com/index.htm Although  the underwear is not advertised on the site they do do it just call. The only  problem with this stuff is they on hot days you have to be TOTALLY hydrated. In  an SFI rating 15 suit you will sweat, sorry men sweat ladies perspire, so keep  up with the gatearade, last you want to do is make a mistake because you are  groggy only to need the protection of the suit, that would just be stupid  )

  

 I have to say that there are times when I don't wear it  because it is just too hot but not many. Also not in the catalog they will make  you a custom fit flight suit that will give you Nascar type protection in a fire  situation, nads as well.

  

 Gus



  	  Quote: 	
		           From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com    [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sarah    Tobin

Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 1:32 AM

To:    yak-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Flight suits,    again.....

   

   I disagree with you guys that are saying that a flt suit is only good for    picking up chicks.  Having worn a flight suit for the past 9 years, I    have come to know them quite well.  Doc can probably back me up on this    one...a viper dude had his giblets roasted because he wore silk boxers on a    flight that ended poorly, but the rest of his body was fine.  Point is,    that it isn't fire *proof*, but it is fire retardant.  Had he been    wearing cotton drawers the story would be different.  

    

   I always wear cotton everything, and I mean everything when I fly my    plane OR when I am on any airliner.  Why not give you the added chance of    survival?  I don't wear a flt suit to acro competitions cuz I can't bring    myself to look like a dork wearing a flt suit when I am off duty....but I    think in an org like RPA that it isn't a bad idea.  Go thru the smoke    course in OKC if you get a chance.  They give you a gnd course on what    happens in a survivable airline crash and how the plastic melts on you.     They show you what happens to ladies that wear nylons on flights and dudes in    polyester pants...ick.  Then they fill the cabin with 'chocolate smoke'    and let you see the limited vis in such a situation.  Anyway, I go on,    but the point is...never compromise on safety!  

    

   Smash

   

      Yahoo! Mail

[url=http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/taglines/pmall2/*http://photomail.mail.yahoo.com]Use    Photomail[/url] to share photos without annoying  attachments.

cdonnell(at)mts.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 6:59 am Post subject: Flight suits, again.....

Seems  strange not to wear a flight suit during acro...am not sure why it would be  better to wear a suit while on RPA stuff.

  

 Cameron

 [quote]   --

gus.fraser(at)gs.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 7:13 am Post subject: Flight suits, again.....

Just a point of order, as RPA is an ALL inclusive  organization, acro is an RPA activity )

  

 Gus



 [quote]         From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com    [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Beverly and    Cameron Donnelly

Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 9:59    AM

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE:    Flight suits, again.....

   

   Seems strange not to wear a flight suit during acro...am not sure why    it would be better to wear a suit while on RPA stuff.

    

   Cameron

   [quote]     --

johnhilterman1(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 9:39 am Post subject: Flight suits, again.....

Don’t waste your breath Smash….been down this road before on this list and it’s not worth the time.  

Hitman  

        

  

From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sarah Tobin

 Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 12:32 AM

 To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Flight suits, again.....  

  

     

I disagree with you guys that are saying that a flt suit is only good for picking up chicks.  Having worn a flight suit for the past 9 years, I have come to know them quite well.  Doc can probably back me up on this one...a viper dude had his giblets roasted because he wore silk boxers on a flight that ended poorly, but the rest of his body was fine.  Point is, that it isn't fire *proof*, but it is fire retardant.  Had he been wearing cotton drawers the story would be different.    

    

   

    

I always wear cotton everything, and I mean everything when I fly my plane OR when I am on any airliner.  Why not give you the added chance of survival?  I don't wear a flt suit to acro competitions cuz I can't bring myself to look like a dork wearing a flt suit when I am off duty....but I think in an org like RPA that it isn't a bad idea.  Go thru the smoke course in OKC if you get a chance.  They give you a gnd course on what happens in a survivable airline crash and how the plastic melts on you.  They show you what happens to ladies that wear nylons on flights and dudes in polyester pants...ick.  Then they fill the cabin with 'chocolate smoke' and let you see the limited vis in such a situation.  Anyway, I go on, but the point is...never compromise on safety!    

    

   

    

Smash  

      

  

Yahoo! Mail

 [url=http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/taglines/pmall2/*http:/photomail.mail.yahoo.com]Use Photomail[/url] to share photos without annoying attachments.

BitterlichMG(at)cherrypoi
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 5:57 pm Post subject: Flight suits, again.....

Smash,  you really don't want to open this discussion.  Trust me.   But..  you kind of already did.   Oh well.... My fault, not yours.   

  

 Ok.  

  

 This  whole thing really boils down to a very simple fact, and it has very little ..  if anything... to do with safety.  It instead is an issue where one group  of people is trying to tell another group of people what to  do.

  

 One  group of people thinks that they have the right to do this.   

  

 Another group of people do not agree with THAT assumption  AT  ALL.  

  

 It  is.... in the end.... as simple as that.  

  

 As far  as what you wear while flying your personal aircraft... well, that is your  business and I will defend to the death your right to make those  decisions.  

  

 I also  happen to believe that what I wear while flying MY aircraft is simply none of  your business.  I do not mean to sound impolite, just to the point.   

  

 No  matter how good OR bad your logic/arguments are .... it should always be my  choice, and I should not have to justify that choice to you or anyone else with  the possible exception of the FAA.   

  

 Regards, 

  

 Mark  Bitterlich 

 N50YK

    

  

  

  

  

 [quote]   --

brian

Joined: 02 Jan 2006
Posts: 643
Location: Sacramento, California, USA

Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 9:15 pm Post subject: Flight suits, again.....

Bitterlich GS11 Mark G wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   I also happen to believe that what I wear while flying MY aircraft is

 simply none of your business.  I do not mean to sound impolite, just to

 the point. 

  

 No matter how good OR bad your logic/arguments are .... it should always

 be my choice, and I should not have to justify that choice to you or

 anyone else with the possible exception of the FAA.   


	


Ah, Mark, you have hit the nail squarely on the head. I would add to it

a bit more of a general statement which I have been thinking about for

some time. Consider it to be somewhat of a libertarian manifesto as

applied to flying in general and RPA specifically.



1. You have the right to expect me to operate my aircraft in a manner

that does nothing to endanger you or affect your ability to fly your own

aircraft.



For example, you have the right to insist that I be qualified to fly on

your wing before you let me fly on your wing.



2. You do not have the right to tell me what to wear, what safety

equipment to use, what equipment to install in my aircraft, or even

insist that I meet FAA requirements. The latter is between me and the FAA.



If I want to burn in my cockpit should there be a fire or not wear a

parachute during formation flight, that is my right to choose. It does

NOT affect your ability to fly your own airplane.



I think talking about safety equipment and how best to protect oneself

is a GREAT use for the mailing list and for RPA. Requiring it at events

is *NOT*!



-- 

Brian Lloyd                         361 Catterline Way

brian-yak at lloyd dot com          Folsom, CA 95630

+1.916.367.2131 (voice)             +1.270.912.0788 (fax)



I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .

- Antoine de Saint-Exupery

fish(at)aviation-tech.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 11:48 pm Post subject: Flight suits, again.....

Brian,

I would agree with you, except in our litigious society your family would sue

after your death. Their argument would be that we failed to protect you, causing

them harm!

I had a meeting with my insurance agent yesterday, and he said that my insurance

rates were going up, because the cost of defending me was going up. He also

said that I could no longer get some types of insurance.

About 20 years ago there was a debate in California over a motorcycle helmet

law. The most outspoken person (Gary Buesy), then had a motorcycle accident

and was in a coma. The next time the law was put to a vote it passed. So who

would like to be the first person roasted alive, to pass this law!

In military flying we have a saying that the Warnings are written in blood (others

have died so we don’t have to make the same mistake). 

Fly Safe

John Fischer

 	  Quote: 	

Bitterlich GS11 Mark G wrote:

> I also happen to believe that what I wear while flying MY aircraft is

> simply none of your business.  I do not mean to sound impolite, just to

> the point. 

>  

> No matter how good OR bad your logic/arguments are .... it should always

 	  Quote: 	
		  > be my choice, and I should not have to justify that choice to you or

> anyone else with the possible exception of the FAA.   

Ah, Mark, you have hit the nail squarely on the head. I would add to it

a bit more of a general statement which I have been thinking about for

some time. Consider it to be somewhat of a libertarian manifesto as

applied to flying in general and RPA specifically.

1. You have the right to expect me to operate my aircraft in a manner

that does nothing to endanger you or affect your ability to fly your own

aircraft.

For example, you have the right to insist that I be qualified to fly on

your wing before you let me fly on your wing.

2. You do not have the right to tell me what to wear, what safety

equipment to use, what equipment to install in my aircraft, or even

insist that I meet FAA requirements. The latter is between me and the FAA.

 	  Quote: 	

If I want to burn in my cockpit should there be a fire or not wear a

parachute during formation flight, that is my right to choose. It does

NOT affect your ability to fly your own airplane.

I think talking about safety equipment and how best to protect oneself

is a GREAT use for the mailing list and for RPA. Requiring it at events

is *NOT*!

-- 

Brian Lloyd                         361 Catterline Way

brian-yak at lloyd dot com          Folsom, CA 95630

+1.916.367.2131 (voice)             +1.270.912.0788 (fax)

I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .

- Antoine de Saint-Exupery

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