 |
Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
fderfler(at)gmail.com
Guest
|
 Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 6:56 am Post subject: 601 Wing Spoilers: On the Ground |
 |
|
Asking for advice:
It is the "windy season" in the Florida Keys. My 601XL has to sit tied down outside. When the circular storms come, I wouldn't be surprised to see breezes that exceed Vr, Vx, Vy, and Vna coming right down the runway.
(Aside: for those of you who say "Fly it away to safety" I'd say that you havn't been down here to the end of the narrow peninsula that is Florida. "Safety" is only assured more than 1000 miles away ... maybe. They really do NOT know where these storms are going! )
(Story to prove the point: August 2004 I had an Grumman sitting at a bayfront airport in Tampa. The official word was that Tampa was going to get hit hard by hurricane Charley. The Bay was going to rise 30 feet. So, I thought, "I should save my airplane and fly it to Arcadia." Arcadia is a town far inland and south of Tampa. Well, preparing the family was more important than saving the Grumman, so I didn't fly. The storm didn't come close to Tampa while the Arcadia airport was hit hard. As another example, look at the unnecessary evacuation of Houston in advance of Katrina. They really do not have much of a clue where these things will go.)
For those of you who say: "Put it in a hangar". Well, none are available in the foreseeable future and we have probably suffered more losses among airplanes in hangars at Marathon than in the open. Hangar doors (The phrase: "Big as a barn door") fail and crash on the airplanes inside.
Anyway, I have other responsibilities and can't be sitting with the airplane 1000 miles away.
So, I want to keep the wings on my 601 from trying to fly. Questions for the group:
1. I see that Kennon Covers has wing covers with spoilers built in. SEE: http://www.kennoncovers.com/wingcovers.htm
Has anyone tried these on any aircraft? A 601? How difficult to put on and take off?
2. I can't believe that it takes much to be a spolier, but the big problem is attaching something to the 601's wing because the whole back edge is full of relatively fragile control surfaces. Also, I don't want to ruin the paint. How about an old blanket tied onto the wing with 50' of 1/4" rope? Or even, how about 50' of 1/4" or 3/8" rope itself wrapped around each wing? Would that "spoil" the aerodynamics enough to keep the wings from flying?
Yes, I know... just as soon as I have my airplane securely tied down and with "spoiled" wings, some idiot's 172C is going to break its 25 year old tie-down ropes and land upside down on my plane. But, I will have tried! -- FJD
--
Frank Derfler
-- Daily Discussions of All the Guy Toys that aren't (clearly) illegal or (blatantly) immoral at my Blog http://MOSTLYFLYING.blogspot.com
- Pilots learn about flights to great places at www.FLYINFLORIDA.COM
-Boaters get the Best Information on Cruising the Florida Keys at www.KEYSBOATER.com
-For the Best Gifts for Guys see my www.GREATGUYBOOKS.com
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
bryanmmartin
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1018
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 7:37 am Post subject: 601 Wing Spoilers: On the Ground |
|
|
Use some foam swim "noodles" for spoilers (~$1.50 each at Walmart). Get some extra rope to tie down your neighbors' planes if they don't look too secure.
On Jul 29, 2007, at 10:55 AM, Frank Derfler wrote:
| Quote: | Asking for advice:
It is the "windy season" in the Florida Keys. My 601XL has to sit tied down outside. When the circular storms come, I wouldn't be surprised to see breezes that exceed Vr, Vx, Vy, and Vna coming right down the runway.
...
So, I want to keep the wings on my 601 from trying to fly. Questions for the group:
Yes, I know... just as soon as I have my airplane securely tied down and with "spoiled" wings, some idiot's 172C is going to break its 25 year old tie-down ropes and land upside down on my plane. But, I will have tried! -- FJD
|
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List |
|
_________________
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
planecrazydld(at)yahoo.co
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 10:32 am Post subject: 601 Wing Spoilers: On the Ground |
|
|
ya know Frank, the only lift you will see is not that associated with laminar flow over the airfoil. The flat plate lift like you get with a sheet of plywood on sawhorses is also a very big player.
do not archive
Frank Derfler <fderfler(at)gmail.com> wrote:[quote] Asking for advice:
It is the "windy season" in the Florida Keys. My 601XL has to sit tied down outside. When the circular storms come, I wouldn't be surprised to see breezes that exceed Vr, Vx, Vy, and Vna coming right down the runway.
(Aside: for those of you who say "Fly it away to safety" I'd say that you havn't been down here to the end of the narrow peninsula that is Florida. "Safety" is only assured more than 1000 miles away ... maybe. They really do NOT know where these storms are going! )
(Story to prove the point: August 2004 I had an Grumman sitting at a bayfront airport in Tampa. The official word was that Tampa was going to get hit hard by hurricane Charley. The Bay was going to rise 30 feet. So, I thought, "I should save my airplane and fly it to Arcadia." Arcadia is a town far inland and south of Tampa. Well, preparing the family was more important than saving the Grumman, so I didn't fly. The storm didn't come close to Tampa while the Arcadia airport was hit hard. As another example, look at the unnecessary evacuation of Houston in advance of Katrina. They really do not have much of a clue where these things will go.)
For those of you who say: "Put it in a hangar". Well, none are available in the foreseeable future and we have probably suffered more losses among airplanes in hangars at Marathon than in the open. Hangar doors (The phrase: "Big as a barn door") fail and crash on the airplanes inside.
Anyway, I have other responsibilities and can't be sitting with the airplane 1000 miles away.
So, I want to keep the wings on my 601 from trying to fly. Questions for the group:
1. I see that Kennon Covers has wing covers with spoilers built in. SEE: http://www.kennoncovers.com/wingcovers.htm
Has anyone tried these on any aircraft? A 601? How difficult to put on and take off?
2. I can't believe that it takes much to be a spolier, but the big problem is attaching something to the 601's wing because the whole back edge is full of relatively fragile control surfaces. Also, I don't want to ruin the paint. How about an old blanket tied onto the wing with 50' of 1/4" rope? Or even, how about 50' of 1/4" or 3/8" rope itself wrapped around each wing? Would that "spoil" the aerodynamics enough to keep the wings from flying?
Yes, I know... just as soon as I have my airplane securely tied down and with "spoiled" wings, some idiot's 172C is going to break its 25 year old tie-down ropes and land upside down on my plane. But, I will have tried! -- FJD
--
Frank Derfler
-- Daily Discussions of All the Guy Toys that aren't (clearly) illegal or (blatantly) immoral at my Blog http://MOSTLYFLYING.blogspot.com
- Pilots learn about flights to great places at www.FLYINFLORIDA.COM
-Boaters get the Best Information on that gives answers, not web links. [quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 12:51 pm Post subject: 601 Wing Spoilers: On the Ground |
|
|
I have heard another way of doing this is to strap a 2x4x12 to the top of the wings just behind the rivet line and that keeps the wing from flying. Put wood blocks into the rear spar to keep it from crushing and some type of padding to keep the straps from being cut by the edges buy the good tow straps and put them directly over the ribs and keep your fingers crossed.
Jeff
| Quote: | Asking for advice:
It is the "windy season" in the Florida Keys. My 601XL has to sit tied down outside. When the circular storms come, I wouldn't be surprised to see breezes that exceed Vr, Vx, Vy, and Vna coming right down the runway.
|
Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com.
| | - The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
fderfler(at)gmail.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 3:25 am Post subject: 601 Wing Spoilers: On the Ground |
|
|
I hac some great replies to my question about keeping the airplane on the ground in a high wind (i.e. Hurricane).
-Using sand bags on the wings is the most practical idea.
-Using swim noodles tied to the wing shows an almost frightening ability to think "outside the box". Bryan, if I still had a business I'd offer you a job immediately.
-"Buy more insurance" was good advice from several sources. I'm a 500 hour pilot and paying about $2.5K annually for the 601. Marathon doesn't have a good record for wind and flood losses. But, it's fully insured!
-"It's not the wind, it's the water!" was probably right on the money and in line with experience.
-"Don't worry about it flying away, it's all the other stuff crashing into it" is also true.
I think the winner is sandbags. Easy to put on and take off. Maybe help to defeat all kinds of lift including "flat plate lift" described by David. And cheap! Thanks, Bob!
--
Frank Derfler
-- Daily Discussions of All the Guy Toys that aren't (clearly) illegal or (blatantly) immoral at my Blog http://MOSTLYFLYING.blogspot.com
- Pilots learn about flights to great places at www.FLYINFLORIDA.COM
-Boaters get the Best Information on Cruising the Florida Keys at www.KEYSBOATER.com
-For the Best Gifts for Guys see my www.GREATGUYBOOKS.com
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bill_dom(at)yahoo.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 5:04 am Post subject: 601 Wing Spoilers: On the Ground |
|
|
What about trailering the plane home and store it in your garage, unless you live in a zone where the storm surge can wipe your home away. Having being living in "hurricane valley" all my life and having experienced 2 mayor hurricanes (cat 5), 4 light ones and uncounted tropical storms, I don't believe that a light plane like the Zodiac could be made safe to ride a hurricane while tied down or hangared in an airport no matter what you do.
If you have a garage, it is not difficult to reinforce the door from the inside or to replace it with newer hurricane resistant ones.
If you don’t have a garage but have a good patio, there are some sheds like this one http://www.smithbilt.com/ that are quite strong despite their appearances. How strong, well, I have a video documentary made after hurricane Andrew went thru Homestead FL. In it, there is a mobile home park completely destroyed. In the middle of the destruction you can see one of these sheds, intact.
If I’m still living in South Florida by the time my plane is flying, my plan is to trailer it home at the beginning of the peak hurricane season, and then trailer it back to the airport at the end. This mean that I wont be flying, or will have to be renting for about 4 month every year. Either I do this or I will have to accept the fact that I will lose my plane sooner or later, because in South Florida, a hurricane is not a matter of if but when.
I have no connection or participation in the company linked in this message.
William Dominguez
Zodiac 601XL Plans
Miami Florida
Frank Derfler <fderfler(at)gmail.com> wrote:[quote] I hac some great replies to my question about keeping the airplane on the ground in a high wind (i.e. Hurricane).
-Using sand bags on the wings is the most practical idea.
-Using swim noodles tied to the wing shows an almost frightening ability to think "outside the box". Bryan, if I still had a business I'd offer you a job immediately.
-"Buy more insurance" was good advice from several sources. I'm a 500 hour pilot and paying about $2.5K annually for the 601. Marathon doesn't have a good record for wind and flood losses. But, it's fully insured!
-"It's not the wind, it's the water!" was probably right on the money and in line with experience.
-"Don't worry about it flying away, it's all the other stuff crashing into it" is also true.
I think the winner is sandbags. Easy to put on and take off. Maybe help to defeat all kinds of lift including "flat plate lift" described by David. And cheap! Thanks, Bob!
--
Frank Derfler
-- Daily Discussions of All the Guy Toys that aren't (clearly) illegal or (blatantly) immoral at my [quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jeyoung65(at)aol.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 7:09 am Post subject: 601 Wing Spoilers: On the Ground |
|
|
Let me add a little about tieing down for the big wind. DO NOT USE STEEL CABLE to tie wings. I did on a J-3 and lost a wing. Moved it from Palm Beach to the center of Fla. because the hurricane was going to pass us in the ocean, guess where it went. Jerry of Ga
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com.
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
gboothe5(at)comcast.net
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 7:33 am Post subject: 601 Wing Spoilers: On the Ground |
|
|
All this talk of spoilers and hurricanes…out here in California we don’t get any weather. Can someone tell me; what’s a ‘tie-down’? ; )
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
601 HDSTD, WW Conversion 90% done,
Tail done, wings done, working on c-section
Do not archive
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeyoung65(at)aol.com
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 8:08 AM
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: 601 Wing Spoilers: On the Ground
Let me add a little about tieing down for the big wind. DO NOT USE STEEL CABLE to tie wings. I did on a J-3 and lost a wing. Moved it from Palm Beach to the center of Fla. because the hurricane was going to pass us in the ocean, guess where it went. Jerry of Ga
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com.
| Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List |
01234
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dredmoody(at)cox.net
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 7:50 am Post subject: 601 Wing Spoilers: On the Ground |
|
|
It's like a freeway at rush hour...... the equipment stays right where it is, no matter what.
Dred
---- Gary Boothe <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> wrote:
| Quote: | All this talk of spoilers and hurricanes.out here in California we don't get
any weather. Can someone tell me; what's a 'tie-down'? ; )
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
601 HDSTD, WW Conversion 90% done,
Tail done, wings done, working on c-section
Do not archive
|
| | - The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jaybannist(at)cs.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 7:55 am Post subject: 601 Wing Spoilers: On the Ground |
|
|
Gary, A "tie-down" is what a calf roper does after he has successfully roped a calf. However, we also use tie-down ropes or chains at the airport to secure both wings and the tail to the ground so that the next renter will have something to do before he kicks the tires and lights the fires.
Jay in Dallas
Do not archive
"Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> wrote:
| Quote: | All this talk of spoilers and hurricanes.out here in California we don't get
any weather. Can someone tell me; what's a 'tie-down'? ; )
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
601 HDSTD, WW Conversion 90% done,
Tail done, wings done, working on c-section
Do not archive
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Jeyoung65(at)aol.com
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 8:08 AM
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: 601 Wing Spoilers: On the Ground
Let me add a little about tieing down for the big wind. DO NOT USE STEEL
CABLE to tie wings. I did on a J-3 and lost a wing. Moved it from Palm Beach
to the center of Fla. because the hurricane was going to pass us in the
ocean, guess where it went. Jerry of Ga
DO NOT ARCHIVE
_____
<http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour/?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000982> .
|
| | - The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
gboothe5(at)comcast.net
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 8:06 am Post subject: 601 Wing Spoilers: On the Ground |
|
|
"...A "tie-down" is what a calf roper does after he has successfully roped a
calf..."
Now I understand! What's the fastest time?
Gary
Do not archive
--
| | - The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jaybannist(at)cs.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 9:26 am Post subject: 601 Wing Spoilers: On the Ground |
|
|
Gary, Actually, Rodeo Cowboys now call the calf roping event "tie-down roping." I don't think they have official records, because of the variations in event conditions: different size or breed of calves, different arena conditions (dirt conditions, indoor or out, night or day, cold or hot, etc.) However, the really fast times are around six seconds.
Jay in Dallas
Do not archive
"Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
"...A "tie-down" is what a calf roper does after he has successfully roped a
calf..."
Now I understand! What's the fastest time?
Gary
Do not archive
|
| | - The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
armyret(at)mchsi.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 9:49 am Post subject: 601 Wing Spoilers: On the Ground |
|
|
Great answer Dred- Almost a classic!! Al ( Do not archive) Young
---
| | - The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ashontz
Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 723
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 11:46 am Post subject: Re: 601 Wing Spoilers: On the Ground |
|
|
Dag, what a bummer, to be stuck on the ground in the Florida keys. LOL. I'll trade with you.  I thought it was only windy down there in the winter. Sounds like it's windy all the time.
do not archive
[quote="fderfler(at)gmail.com"]Asking for advice:
It is the "windy season" in the Florida Keys. My 601XL has to sit tied down outside. When the circular storms come, I wouldn't be surprised to see breezes that exceed Vr, Vx, Vy, and Vna coming right down the runway.
(Aside: for those of you who say "Fly it away to safety" I'd say that you havn't been down here to the end of the narrow peninsula that is Florida. "Safety" is only assured more than 1000 miles away ... maybe. They really do NOT know where these storms are going! )
(Story to prove the point: August 2004 I had an Grumman sitting at a bayfront airport in Tampa. The official word was that Tampa was going to get hit hard by hurricane Charley. The Bay was going to rise 30 feet. So, I thought, "I should save my airplane and fly it to Arcadia." Arcadia is a town far inland and south of Tampa. Well, preparing the family was more important than saving the Grumman, so I didn't fly. The storm didn't come close to Tampa while the Arcadia airport was hit hard. As another example, look at the unnecessary evacuation of Houston in advance of Katrina. They really do not have much of a clue where these things will go.)
For those of you who say: "Put it in a hangar". Well, none are available in the foreseeable future and we have probably suffered more losses among airplanes in hangars at Marathon than in the open. Hangar doors (The phrase: "Big as a barn door") fail and crash on the airplanes inside.
Anyway, I have other responsibilities and can't be sitting with the airplane 1000 miles away.
So, I want to keep the wings on my 601 from trying to fly. Questions for the group:
1. I see that Kennon Covers has wing covers with spoilers built in. SEE: http://www.kennoncovers.com/wingcovers.htm
Has anyone tried these on any aircraft? A 601? How difficult to put on and take off?
2. I can't believe that it takes much to be a spolier, but the big problem is attaching something to the 601's wing because the whole back edge is full of relatively fragile control surfaces. Also, I don't want to ruin the paint. How about an old blanket tied onto the wing with 50' of 1/4" rope? Or even, how about 50' of 1/4" or 3/8" rope itself wrapped around each wing? Would that "spoil" the aerodynamics enough to keep the wings from flying?
Yes, I know... just as soon as I have my airplane securely tied down and with "spoiled" wings, some idiot's 172C is going to break its 25 year old tie-down ropes and land upside down on my plane. But, I will have tried! -- FJD
--
Frank Derfler
-- Daily Discussions of All the Guy Toys that aren't (clearly) illegal or (blatantly) immoral at my Blog http://MOSTLYFLYING.blogspot.com
- Pilots learn about flights to great places at www.FLYINFLORIDA.COM
-Boaters get the Best Information on Cruising the Florida Keys at www.KEYSBOATER.com
-For the Best Gifts for Guys see my www.GREATGUYBOOKS.com
| | - The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ashontz
Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 723
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 11:59 am Post subject: Re: 601 Wing Spoilers: On the Ground |
|
|
Seeing as how you really can't guarantee which direction the wind will come from, I think if I ran an airport in FL, for each tie-down spot I'd sink about a yard of concrete in the ground with a big 3" diameter pipe in it, then weld up a fairly balanced structure that then sits on the pipe and can swivel and can be adjusted for different wheel sets. Then when it comes time to tie down you just pull the plane up on the big swivel thing and lash the tires to it real good, then strap noodles to the wings. LOL
| | - The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ashontz
Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 723
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 12:16 pm Post subject: Re: 601 Wing Spoilers: On the Ground |
|
|
Dag, someone beat me to it. Good idea though. Don't try to fight the wind, just go with the flow.
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5979121.html
do not archive
| | - The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
Get Email Distribution Too!
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
