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lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 9:34 am Post subject: Kingfox tires

I bought a pair of the Nankang tires several years ago from a vendor other 

than Mippi and had some issues with the bead leaking.  I used the green 

"Slime" for tubeless tires with good success.  I used the version for 

tubeless tires because I had heard that Slime was corrosive for alloy wheels 

and assumed that the tubeless variety was OK.  Wrong.  when it came time to 

replace the tires, there were pits all over the inner surface of the rims.



I was talking to a guy at an ATV place about the problem and he agreed that 

Slime will damage alloy rims and commented that it was to be used only in 

emergencies.  I asked him what he used to seal the bead in difficult cases 

and he didn't want to say, but I got him to admit that he uses RTV.  I 

didn't like that idea as I could just see adding to the difficulty of 

breaking the bead by gluing the tires to the rims.  In frustration, I did it 

though as I got tired if having to top up the air every three days.  The 

leak would be very slow at first, but as the pressure gradually dropped, it 

would proceed to a rush and then in a matter of a couple of hours it would 

be from soft to dead flat.  I applied it only to the outside bead as that 

was the only place I could detect a leak by soaping.



All was great until I discovered that the tires still would go flat, but now 

it would take a week or more to see the softening.  I dealt with that with 

the comeressed air tank then decided to finally add the RTV to the inside 

bead - I only found that leak by removing the wheel and very carefully 

soaping the whole tire.   That took care of that by soap test, but breaking 

the bead had somehow disturbed the cured RTV on the oustside, and now that 

side leaked again - can of worms?  Not really, rather than making bead 

breakin harder, the RTV made breaking the bead much easier and after 

cleaning up both sides, I wiped a thin layer of RTV with a gloved finger in 

both bead areas and presto - no leaks for the first time in lots of years.



If you want to try this, use the RTV recommended by the factory for the fuel 

tank installation.  Some RTVs are corrosive to aluminum alloys.



Lowell Fitt

Cameron Park, CA

Model IV-1200 R-912 UL Warp

1998 880 hrs.

akanka(at)kiamichiwb.org
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 10:53 am Post subject: Kingfox tires

An alternative to try is liquid detergent such as Ivory, or Palmolive, or

any brand you prefer.  I've used it successfully on a variety of small

tubeless tires and car tires over the years.  The stuff makes it easier to

seat the beads, dries and adds to the sealing effect, and don't leave any

residue to speak of, and what residue there is cleans up with water.  I've

never noticed any corrosion or pitting of wheels when I've used it in the

past.  Just use it straight from the bottle.  Rub a good coat on with your

hand or use a paint brush to brush it on the tire bead, mount and inflate

the tire to maximum pressure to seat the bead, then reduce the pressure to

operational pressure.



John Hart



--

malpass-architect(at)comc
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 4:20 pm Post subject: Kingfox tires

What is the problem with just putting tubes in the tires.?



I once went into a swerve that was enough to break the seal, tire went flat, 

and I had to rebuild my wheel pant.

I then put in tubes and now,  no fear of that sort of thing again.



Bill  Kitfox model III   N793RK

---

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 4:53 pm Post subject: Kingfox tires

With low pressure  tires there isn't as much pressure holding the tire in place on the rim.   If you have a fast solid touchdown it is possible to rotate the tire in the  rim.  If you have a tube in there you will cause the rim to cut off the air  valve.  Same result only possibly with both mains flat.

  

 Just ask some of the guys using ATVs with low pressure  tires... I'll bet they will advise against ever using a tube.

  

  

[img]cid:491015300(at)08082007-2ECE[/img]  

 Noel Loveys, RPP, AME intern

 Campbellton, Newfoundland, 

 Canada

 Kitfox Mod III-A, 582, B box, Ivo IFA

 Aerocet 1100s

 noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca (noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca)

 

 

 Do not archive

 



 

 

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_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

clint_bazzill(at)hotmail.
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:53 pm Post subject: Kingfox tires

If you rotate the rim from a hard landing, I wouldn't worry about the rim 

cutting the valve stem, you just lost all your air.  My 2 cents worth.  

Clint



From: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca>

Reply-To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

To: <kitfox-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: RE: Kingfox tires

Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 22:23:13 -0230



With low pressure tires there isn't as much pressure holding the tire in

place on the rim.  If you have a fast solid touchdown it is possible to

rotate the tire in the rim.  If you have a tube in there you will cause the

rim to cut off the air valve.  Same result only possibly with both mains

flat.



Just ask some of the guys using ATVs with low pressure tires... I'll bet

they will advise against ever using a tube.



Noel Loveys, RPP, AME intern

Campbellton, Newfoundland,

Canada

Kitfox Mod III-A, 582, B box, Ivo IFA

Aerocet 1100s

  <mailto:noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca> noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca

Do not archive



 > --

mikeperkins

Joined: 22 May 2007
Posts: 123

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 5:08 am Post subject: Kingfox tires

This may seem like heresy to some folks, but I solved a leaking tire with an inner tube. It weighed less than a pound.     [quote][b]

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 5:10 am Post subject: Kingfox tires

it only has to rotate  about 1/4 in to open the valve stem and you are right you would loose all your  air.  I have had the tires on my ATV move a lot more than that without  losing an appreciable amount of air.

  

 Check it out with the people who use those low pressure tires  the most.  

  

 As you can see from my signature I don't spend a lot of time  on wheels.

  

[img]cid:904135412(at)08082007-0FAA[/img]  

 Noel Loveys, RPP, AME intern

 Campbellton, Newfoundland, 

 Canada

 Kitfox Mod III-A, 582, B box, Ivo IFA

 Aerocet 1100s

 noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca (noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca)

 

 

 



 



 

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_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

dave.wahlquist(at)ics.uwe
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 5:29 am Post subject: Kingfox tires

Just to add one more thing to this topic… You can use tubes with steel valve stems if you are worried about the tire and tube rotating and cutting a rubber stem.  I think rotation is unlikely in a tire that is just coasting and not under power however.  

   

Dave Wahlquist  

Model III 582 under repair  

Marshall,WI    

   

        

  

From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perkins, Mike

 Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 8:06 AM

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kingfox tires  

  

   

This may seem like heresy to some folks, but I solved a leaking tire with an inner tube. It weighed less than a pound.   

       [quote][b]

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 6:20 am Post subject: Kingfox tires

Don't forget your brakes.   the steel valve stem could also be torn away from the tube.  I think the  best thing to do is to clean the rims as good as possible and seat the beads  with a bit of soap.  That being said, I now have a leaky tire on my  ATV.  Then again that tire has some pretty big slashes in the side walls  that have been patched on the inside.  I have a tube to put in it but was  advised not to use it by guys who have a lot more experience with these machines  than I have.

  

  

[img]cid:968581214(at)08082007-0FB1[/img]  

 Noel Loveys, RPP, AME intern

 Campbellton, Newfoundland, 

 Canada

 Kitfox Mod III-A, 582, B box, Ivo IFA

 Aerocet 1100s

 noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca (noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca)

 

 



  

  

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_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Mnflyer

Joined: 15 May 2006
Posts: 78

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 6:26 am Post subject: Re: Kingfox tires

Eight years of flying with inner tubes with all kinds of braking and have yet to rotate the tires much less cut a valve stem. Once the tires are seated on the bead for a time they are just about impossible to brake loose to change a tire much less rotate. Inner tubes ended my leaking tires 8 years ago and as posted they weigh less than a pound and hold air.

Comparing smooth rolling tires on a Kitfox to a ATV with heavy deep lugs under power  and bigger brakes, is comparing apples to oranges.

_________________
GB
MNFlyer
Flying a HKS Kitfox III

Last edited by Mnflyer on Wed Aug 08, 2007 6:31 am; edited 1 time in total

lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 6:27 am Post subject: Kingfox tires

I have read reports on the kitfox list (in the days of old) and the lancair 

list of valve stems shearing.  This is why I have avoided tubes.



Lowell Fitt

Cameron Park, CA

Model IV-1200 R-912 UL Warp

1998 870 hrs.l



---

Mark.Napier(at)sciatl.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 7:59 am Post subject: Kingfox tires

Hey Lowell,



How do you break the tire bead loose?  When I needed to get the old pair

off my rims I had to take them to an ATV shop.



I mounted the new tires after many hours of polishing the rims to clean

up the seats.  I bought some tire tools and a neighbor helped me put

them on.  



Now my left tire looses air again and I'll bet there is some corrosion

in the bead seats again.



Thank you much,



Mark Napier



Time: 10:34:46 AM PST US

From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net>

Subject: Kingfox tires

I bought a pair of the Nankang tires several years ago from a vendor

other 

than Mippi and had some issues with the bead leaking.  I used the green 

"Slime" for tubeless tires with good success.  I used the version for 

tubeless tires because I had heard that Slime was corrosive for alloy

wheels 

and assumed that the tubeless variety was OK.  Wrong.  when it came time

to 

replace the tires, there were pits all over the inner surface of the

rims.



I was talking to a guy at an ATV place about the problem and he agreed

that 

Slime will damage alloy rims and commented that it was to be used only

in 

emergencies.  I asked him what he used to seal the bead in difficult

cases 

and he didn't want to say, but I got him to admit that he uses RTV.  I 

didn't like that idea as I could just see adding to the difficulty of 

breaking the bead by gluing the tires to the rims.  In frustration, I

did it 

though as I got tired if having to top up the air every three days.  The



leak would be very slow at first, but as the pressure gradually dropped,

it 

would proceed to a rush and then in a matter of a couple of hours it

would 

be from soft to dead flat.  I applied it only to the outside bead as

that 

was the only place I could detect a leak by soaping.



All was great until I discovered that the tires still would go flat, but

now 

it would take a week or more to see the softening.  I dealt with that

with 

the comeressed air tank then decided to finally add the RTV to the

inside 

bead - I only found that leak by removing the wheel and very carefully 

soaping the whole tire.   That took care of that by soap test, but

breaking 

the bead had somehow disturbed the cured RTV on the oustside, and now

that 

side leaked again - can of worms?  Not really, rather than making bead 

breakin harder, the RTV made breaking the bead much easier and after 

cleaning up both sides, I wiped a thin layer of RTV with a gloved finger

in 

both bead areas and presto - no leaks for the first time in lots of

years.



If you want to try this, use the RTV recommended by the factory for the

fuel 

tank installation.  Some RTVs are corrosive to aluminum alloys.



Lowell Fitt

Cameron Park, CA

Model IV-1200 R-912 UL Warp

1998 880 hrs. 

 



     - - - - - Appended by Scientific Atlanta, a Cisco company - - - - -         

This e-mail and any attachments may contain information which is confidential, 

proprietary, privileged or otherwise protected by law. The information is solely 

intended for the named addressee (or a person responsible for delivering it to 

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not authorized to read, print, retain, copy or disseminate this message or any 

part of it. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender 

immediately by return e-mail and delete it from your computer.

clint_bazzill(at)hotmail.
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 8:09 am Post subject: Kingfox tires

Lowell,



I had tubes in my old tires and had no problem.  When you install the tubes 

you have to put in enough pressure to seal the tubless tires, then back off 

on the air in the tube.  If the tire rotates in the rim, you do have a 

problem and its not the tubes fault.  Clint

From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net>

Reply-To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

To: <kitfox-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: Re: Kingfox tires

Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 07:27:14 -0700






I have read reports on the kitfox list (in the days of old) and the lancair 

list of valve stems shearing.  This is why I have avoided tubes.



Lowell Fitt

Cameron Park, CA

Model IV-1200 R-912 UL Warp

1998 870 hrs.l



---

lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 9:59 am Post subject: Kingfox tires

Hi, Mark,



I use the old drive on it with the front wheels of my truck trick.  Put a 

piece of old carpet under the wheel to prevent damage.  It is a tough home 

job, but it can be done.  Sometimes I have my wife help me and she usuall 

runs the other way when I have wheel in hand and call her name.



I once tried the small tire mount set, by Harbor freight and proceeded to 

damage the hub.  Going to an ATV shop sounds like a good idea, but I have 

always been sort of a do-it-yourselfer.



Lowell Fitt

Cameron Park, CA

Model IV-1200 R-912 UL Warp

1998 880 hrs.

---

l.morris(at)tx.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 10:23 am Post subject: Kingfox tires

Here's a thought: Use epoxy primer on the inside of your wheels,then you can use your tubeless tires and slime and not worry about corrosion.---Leon Morris/Classic4/50%/Flower Mound, TX

---- "Wahlquist wrote: 

 	  Quote: 	
		   Just to add one more thing to this topic... You can use tubes with steel

 valve stems if you are worried about the tire and tube rotating and

 cutting a rubber stem.  I think rotation is unlikely in a tire that is

 just coasting and not under power however.

 

  

 

 Dave Wahlquist

 

 Model III 582 under repair

 

 Marshall,WI

 

  

 

 ________________________________

 

 From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com

 [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perkins,

 Mike

 Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 8:06 AM

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Kingfox tires

 

  

 

 This may seem like heresy to some folks, but I solved a leaking tire

 with an inner tube. It weighed less than a pound.

Fox5flyer
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 4:13 pm Post subject: Kingfox tires

It's not heresy Mike.  Probably the best way  to go when one has a chronic leakage.

  

 Deke Morisse

Mikado Michigan

S5/Subaru/CAP  355+ TT

"If you don't read the newspaper you are

uninformed, if you do  read 

the newspaper you are misinformed."

Mark Twain

  

  

  

 [quote]   ---

MichaelGibbs(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 8:03 am Post subject: Kingfox tires

Lowell sez:



 	  Quote: 	
		  I have read reports on the kitfox list (in the days of old) and the 

lancair list of valve stems shearing. This is why I have avoided 

tubes.


	


My 1978 Piper Turbo Arrow III has inner tubes in all of her 

tires--came that way from the factory, I believe.  We've never had a 

problem with valve stems or loss of air.



Mike G.

List Mom

Model IV-1200, N728KF

Phoenix, AZ

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 2:53 pm Post subject: Kingfox tires

I have done it on ATV wheels by hand.  Using  an ATV shop is miles better if for speed if nothing else.  However if you  are going to do it by hand use round pry bars and you can wrap them with the  handy man's secret weapon.... Duct tape.  A bit of soapy water helps the  tires slip off over the rims too.  Just apply it after you break the bead  down, a big job in itself.



 

[img]cid:837314922(at)09082007-1F80[/img]  

 Noel Loveys, RPP, AME intern

 Campbellton, Newfoundland, 

 Canada

 Kitfox Mod III-A, 582, B box, Ivo IFA

 Aerocet 1100s

 noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca (noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca)

 

 

 

[quote] -----Original  Message-----

 From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com

 [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com)]  On Behalf Of

 Lowell Fitt

 Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 3:29  PM

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: RE:  Kingfox tires

 --> Kitfox-List message posted by:  "Lowell Fitt"

 <lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net>



 Hi,  Mark,



 I use the old drive on it with the front wheels of my  truck

 trick.  Put a

 piece of old carpet under the wheel to  prevent damage.  It is

 a tough home

 job, but it can be  done.  Sometimes I have my wife help me

 and she usuall

 runs  the other way when I have wheel in hand and call her name.



 I  once tried the small tire mount set, by Harbor freight and

 proceeded  to

 damage the hub.  Going to an ATV shop sounds like a good

  idea, but I have

 always been sort of a do-it-yourselfer.



  Lowell Fitt

 Cameron Park, CA

 Model IV-1200 R-912 UL Warp

  1998 880 hrs.

 ---

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_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 3:53 pm Post subject: Kingfox tires

Mike:



Are the tires on your Piper Turbo  Arrow III low pressure??  That would make a difference.  Obviously  some of the guys on this list have used tubes successfully.   I  repeated what I had been told about low pressure tires.  It's not an issue  on floats...



Our old pal Dave Fisher, the swashbuckling, mud stomping  flyer sent me a link to his page where he has a picture of his "custom" tire  tool.  I don't know exactly how it works but you can go here   http://www.cfisher.com/kingfox.html for a  look.  Any one wh has been looking for a set of the King fox super tires  can also contact him..... I think he could scare up a set. ;->



 

[img]cid:512214023(at)09082007-1F8E[/img]  

 Noel Loveys, RPP, AME intern

 Campbellton, Newfoundland, 

 Canada

 Kitfox Mod III-A, 582, B box, Ivo IFA

 Aerocet 1100s

 noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca (noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca)

 

 

 

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_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

MichaelGibbs(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 7:22 am Post subject: Kingfox tires

Noel asks:



 	  Quote: 	
		  Are the tires on your Piper Turbo Arrow III low pressure?? That 

would make a difference.


	


Recommended pressure for the mains is 30 psi and the nose wheel is 27 

psi.  Is that low pressure?



Mike G.

List Mom

Model IV-1200, N728KF

Phoenix, AZ

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