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Andair Fuel Valve

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toaster73(at)earthlink.ne
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 12:59 pm Post subject: Andair Fuel Valve

Looked at the archives for some advice on which  valve is the latest and greatest. SO what is the consensus these days on the  model valve to go with and where is the best place to get one. Tim Olson, I  think you mentioned if you did it over again you would utilize the universal  joint out there no?. 

  Is the best mount setup to use extensions and  mount the valve down in the tunnel or go for right up against the tunnel  cover?

 Looks like PN fs20x3 is the choice and have 90 deg  elbow supplied by andair put on, but should I go with universal at both ends  with 6inch ext.?

 Thanks

 Chris Lucas

 #40072

 fuselage and mods (mods take  time) 

   [quote][b]

bldgrv10450(at)comcast.ne
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 5:45 pm Post subject: Andair Fuel Valve

Thanks for the meaningful questions about Andair. I  am standing by to hear the feed back. The linkage sound like a good idea and I  recall looking a one set-up with the fuel valve canted and moved forward just  below the quadrant.

 Paul Grimstad

RV10 40450

Portland,  Or.

  

 do not archive

 [quote]   ---

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2879

Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:16 pm Post subject: Andair Fuel Valve

Chris, I'm not 100% sure what valve would be best anymore because it's

been a LOOOOONG time now since I installed mine.  I do think perhaps

the one that has the inlets at the 45 degree forward facing positions

would perhaps give better clearance than the one I used.  The only

clearance issue is really the rudder cable area, and mine doesn't

contact it at all, but just requires some care to install well.

I can tell you this though.  I'm 100% satisfied with going with that

Andair valve or any Andair valve. They're nice valves and I'd do it

again if I built another.  I'm also 100% satisfied with using a

single flex line from the valve to the tank.  I think that's the cat's

meow for routing.



As far as mounting the valve goes, if you put a swivel in it, I

think I'd only put one swivel in and mount the valve low in the

tunnel and put the swivel right on the valve so it's all stem to

the top.  I have good reason for this.  The way I have the valve

mounted (I don't have a swivel though) I was able to wrap the stem

in UHMW tape, and run the SCAT right through the area in the top

of the tunnel next to the valve.  And, even if the stem touched

the SCAT, the tape prevents any wear.  With a valve mounted up

high there, you'll have to squash and mash the SCAT tube

and force it to fit, or reduce it like some people have done.

Those are kind of hacked fixes IMHO, when you have the option to

mount the valve low and give plenty of room for the called-for SCAT.

I haven't seen the universal joint for a long time to remember how

tall it was, but my only concern with adding one would be that I

would want to leave at least 2 or 3" of stem at the top under the valve

to give clearance for that SCAT.  Other than that, adding the

U-joint wouldn't be bad at all.  The positive side is that with

that U-Joint you can be sloppier with the valve angle and mounting,

whereas I was required to have them line up fairly straight and

parallel to the tunnel cover surface, and cut the stem the exact

length so I could slide the stem in place, put the valve handle

over it, and tighten it down.  I don't have a way to lock the

handle to the stem, given the install, but I worked hard to

make the fit as tight as possible so there's no way once the

handle is screwed down that it's coming apart.  Much harder to

describe than to show in person.  Either way, you will want to

order a 12" extension, because then you can cut one and if you

end up too short you have an entire spare half to re-cut one.



I don't know if the supplied elbow would be best, or if what I

did would be more compact, if you use the same valve as me.

I cut off the tip of the NPT threads, and used a die to cut

the threads a little further so that I'd shorten that stem

just another 1/16-1/8" to give a little clearance. That worked

well.  But if the andair 90 is more compact, I'd go with that.

I couldn't get one easily when I was ordering.  If you have

time to get the parts though, I'd look hard at the Left/Right

valve with the ports to the front on the 45's.



Good luck with it.  It's working out great for me so far.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

toaster73(at)earthlink.net wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Looked at the archives for some advice on which valve is the latest and 

 greatest. SO what is the consensus these days on the model valve to go 

 with and where is the best place to get one. Tim Olson, I think you 

 mentioned if you did it over again you would utilize the universal joint 

 out there no?. 

  Is the best mount setup to use extensions and mount the valve down in 

 the tunnel or go for right up against the tunnel cover?

 Looks like PN fs20x3 is the choice and have 90 deg elbow supplied by 

 andair put on, but should I go with universal at both ends with 6inch ext.?

 Thanks

 Chris Lucas

 #40072

 fuselage and mods (mods take time)

n8zg(at)bellsouth.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 7:09 pm Post subject: Andair Fuel Valve

Paul - 

  

 The FS20x3 valve has a 180-degree swing between left and  right tanks, and is a VERY tight fit in the -10 tunnel.  The FS20x7  series fits much easier and (I think) looks nicer.  Reports from folks  using the 6-inch extension have been positive, few have needed universal  joints (one, that I know of).  If you choose to use the extension,  with a  little care in fitting the lower mount plate, you can forego the universal  joints (about $45 each).  

  

 As for sourcing, I'd  recommend you go direct to Andair and order from the website.  It will be  faster, less expensive, and you're more likely to get exactly what you asked  for.  Be prepared - the exchange rate is  painful...

  

 You want the FS20x7T  EXT...

  

 FS = Fuel  Selector

 20 = Line Diameter in  0.5 mm increments (3/8" or AN6)

 x = male output fitting  (or F for Female) 

 7 = valve body style (7  indicates the two-port 90-deg swing body, Left at 335-, Right at 45- and off at  180-deg)

 T = 90-deg male  AN6 inlet fittings - more compact, fewer joints and  less expensive than screwing AN6 90-deg adapters into female  fittings.

 EXT = 6-inch extension unles  you specify something else (if memory serves)

  

 Now, pay attention - The  standard extension kit includes a black anodized bezel with engraving  that results in "silver" lettering.  If you want a "silver"  (clear anodized aluminum) bezel with black and red lettered engravings, you need  to specify that in the comments (or special  instructions) section.

  

 neal



   From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul  Grimstad

Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 8:44 PM

To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Andair Fuel  Valve

 

 Thanks for the meaningful questions about Andair. I  am standing by to hear the feed back. The linkage sound like a good idea and I  recall looking a one set-up with the fuel valve canted and moved forward just  below the quadrant.

 Paul Grimstad

RV10 40450

Portland,  Or.

  

 do not archive

 [quote]   ---

LloydDR(at)wernerco.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 5:05 am Post subject: Andair Fuel Valve

I also used the Andair setup, just in Duplex form. Like Tim I would

recommend using the 12" extension, this makes it very easy to place the

valve at the bottom of the tunnel and freeing up allot of room for the

SCAT tubing to pass through. 

You can see in the attached photos, specifically 134 what Tim was

talking about needing to get the valve level so that the extension will

pass through the upper whole in the tunnel. I made the bracket at the

bottom with a cross support that way I could use washers to adjust the

fore and aft angle on the extension.

In the 405 photo you can see the different fittings offered from Andair,

in hind sight there are several things I would have changed on my

original order from Andair, as it was a bit of trial and error in the

beginning. On their website http://www.andair.co.uk/ , the automated

configuration tool does not show all of the optional fittings in

building the valve, you have to call for these, but what I ordered was a

duplex and you will only need a single, but the important part is to go

to the accessories page and get the EF20 for your two side fittings and

then use the MF20 for your feed to the bulk head

http://www.andair.co.uk/system/index.html with these fittings installed

it makes it a very simple and clean install and you can use single

flared fittings at each location rather than having to use

adapters/elbows etc.



Hope this helps

Dan

N289DT RV10E Flying

 



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rvbuilder(at)sausen.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 5:45 am Post subject: Andair Fuel Valve

Below is what I did using the valve Neal is talking about.  Works well.  

   

http://www.mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=msausen&project=22&category=1703&log=15806&row=6  

   

Michael Sausen  

-10 #352 Limbo  

       

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Neal George

 Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 10:08 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Andair Fuel Valve  

  

  

   

Paul -   

   

The FS20x3 valve has a 180-degree swing between left and right tanks, and is a VERY tight fit in the -10 tunnel.  The FS20x7 series fits much easier and (I think) looks nicer.  Reports from folks using the 6-inch extension have been positive, few have needed universal joints (one, that I know of).  If you choose to use the extension, with a little care in fitting the lower mount plate, you can forego the universal joints (about $45 each).    

   

As for sourcing, I'd recommend you go direct to Andair and order from the website.  It will be faster, less expensive, and you're more likely to get exactly what you asked for.  Be prepared - the exchange rate is painful...  

   

You want the FS20x7T EXT...  

   

FS = Fuel Selector  

20 = Line Diameter in 0.5 mm increments (3/8" or AN6)  

x = male output fitting (or F for Female)   

7 = valve body style (7 indicates the two-port 90-deg swing body, Left at 335-, Right at 45- and off at 180-deg)  

T = 90-deg male AN6 inlet fittings - more compact, fewer joints and less expensive than screwing AN6 90-deg adapters into female fittings.  

EXT = 6-inch extension unles you specify something else (if memory serves)  

   

Now, pay attention - The standard extension kit includes a black anodized bezel with engraving that results in "silver" lettering.  If you want a "silver" (clear anodized aluminum) bezel with black and red lettered engravings, you need to specify that in the comments (or special instructions) section.  

   

neal  

       

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Grimstad

 Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 8:44 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Andair Fuel Valve    

Thanks for the meaningful questions about Andair. I am standing by to hear the feed back. The linkage sound like a good idea and I recall looking a one set-up with the fuel valve canted and moved forward just below the quadrant.  

    

Paul Grimstad

 RV10 40450

 Portland, Or.  

    

   

    

do not archive  

   	  Quote: 	
		      

----- Original Message -----   

    

From: toaster73(at)earthlink.net (toaster73(at)earthlink.net)   

    

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)   

    

Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 1:58 PM  

    

Subject: Andair Fuel Valve  

    

   

    

Looked at the archives for some advice on which valve is the latest and greatest. SO what is the consensus these days on the model valve to go with and where is the best place to get one. Tim Olson, I think you mentioned if you did it over again you would utilize the universal joint out there no?.   

    

 Is the best mount setup to use extensions and mount the valve down in the tunnel or go for right up against the tunnel cover?  

    

Looks like PN fs20x3 is the choice and have 90 deg elbow supplied by andair put on, but should I go with universal at both ends with 6inch ext.?  

    

Thanks  

    

Chris Lucas  

    

#40072  

    

fuselage and mods (mods take time)   

   	  Quote: 	
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      [quote][b]

ScooterF15

Joined: 19 Jun 2006
Posts: 136

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 5:48 am Post subject: Andair Fuel Valve

Chris,

  

 There will never be a consensus on any topic... except maybe that the RV-10  is the airplane of choice.

  

 Mods do take time. Personally, I went with the standard Van's fuel valve.  It works great. I did make one mod that allows for error-resistant (I won't  claim error-proof) operation without having to look down. I put 2 screws  with 1/4" aluminum tube spacers in the tunnel cover. I simply grab the  screw and squeeze the lever until it lines up. For OFF you rotate the lever  aft. Very simple. See attached picture.

  

 -Jim

 40134 - First annual taking longer than I'd like

  

  

 

 In a message dated 8/7/2007 5:01:37 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  toaster73(at)earthlink.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		     Looked at the archives for some advice on which    valve is the latest and greatest. SO what is the consensus these days on the    model valve to go with and where is the best place to get one. Tim Olson, I    think you mentioned if you did it over again you would utilize the universal    joint out there no?. 

    Is the best mount setup to use extensions    and mount the valve down in the tunnel or go for right up against the tunnel    cover?

   Looks like PN fs20x3 is the choice and have 90    deg elbow supplied by andair put on, but should I go with universal at both    ends with 6inch ext.?

   Thanks

   Chris Lucas

   #40072

   fuselage and mods (mods take    time) 

	


 



  

 Jim "Scooter"  McGrew

http://www.mit.edu/~jsmcgrew



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flysrv10(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 6:32 am Post subject: Andair Fuel Valve

You can also use the valve that comes withe the kit and purchase the Cleveland valve handle they make for RV10.  It looks nice and does not need any modifications.

Rob.



On Aug 7, 2007, at 4:58 PM, <toaster73(at)earthlink.net (toaster73(at)earthlink.net)> <toaster73(at)earthlink.net (toaster73(at)earthlink.net)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Looked at the archives for some advice on which valve is the latest and greatest. SO what is the consensus these days on the model valve to go with and where is the best place to get one. Tim Olson, I think you mentioned if you did it over again you would utilize the universal joint out there no?. 

 Is the best mount setup to use extensions and mount the valve down in the tunnel or go for right up against the tunnel cover?

Looks like PN fs20x3 is the choice and have 90 deg elbow supplied by andair put on, but should I go with universal at both ends with 6inch ext.?

Thanks

Chris Lucas

#40072

fuselage and mods (mods take time) 

 	  Quote: 	
		  http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

rnewman(at)lutron.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 12:07 pm Post subject: Andair Fuel Valve

I need to weigh in on this one.      I have an Andair valve installed in

our Glastar and we did have an issue with their Female Pipe Thread

inlets.   I am installing an Andair valve in my RV-10 but with the

following note.



In the glastar, like the Rv-10,  a 90 degree turn is needed after

exiting the valve.  To do this we installed 90 elbows (AN822),  AN flare

to male pipe thread.   We had a terrible time getting the pipe threads

to seal with the proper clocking of the elbows.  We tried many types of

sealant including the highly recommended Fuelube,  Finally the only

thing that seemed to work was a product called Blue-Block which is much

more viscous than other sealants I've used and rated for gasoline.  It

worked from 1999 till our conditional inspection in Nov of 2006.   I

found that these fitting were still weeping fuel.   I removed the

fittings and changed them over to the new modular 90 degree cast AN-6

series fittings that Andair now makes, thus completely eliminating the

tapered pipe thread connections from the system. (now flared AN

connections bolt right up to the Andair Valve heading in the right

direction).   



The engineer in me though says,  what caused these pipe threads to not

seal?   Upon inspection of the old andair female pipe thread modular

adapters I noticed that the threads did not seem to be cut deep enough

into the part with respect to engaging the tapered thread.   I believe

that this was causing the male pipe thread part (elbow) to bottom out

within the Andair part instead of allowing the joint to get suitably

tight by the tapered geometry.  



So the lesson in my book is to check your fittings before assembly and

ensure they can fully engage.   



On my RV-10 fuel valve I am using the one with the straight extension

and the cast 90 degree modular elbows.



Bob Newman

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2879

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 12:32 pm Post subject: Andair Fuel Valve

You may have a point there.  I *think* when I trimmed off the

nose of the fitting and re-cut more threads on that, that I

also pulled off the andair female NPT fittings (using the

4 screws), and used a tap to tap the threads slightly

deeper there too.  I am not 100% sure of this as it's been

a while, but I believe that's the case.  This allowed me

to thread the elbow closer and further into the valve.

It's not uncommon in dealing with some NPT stuff, so I didn't

maybe make as big a deal of it as some might.  I just

prefer all my threaded fittings to fit with a few turns

holding them together.   I do think those andair fittings

would be ideal if they can be used in the application though.



Also, I believe Neal had it right with the valve part number

that would be nicer to use than what I did.  You guys building

later in the cycle are lucky to have such improvements.  Gosh,

I almost wish I was still in the building process. 



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

Bob Newman wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 I need to weigh in on this one.      I have an Andair valve installed in

 our Glastar and we did have an issue with their Female Pipe Thread

 inlets.   I am installing an Andair valve in my RV-10 but with the

 following note.

 

 In the glastar, like the Rv-10,  a 90 degree turn is needed after

 exiting the valve.  To do this we installed 90 elbows (AN822),  AN flare

 to male pipe thread.   We had a terrible time getting the pipe threads

 to seal with the proper clocking of the elbows.  We tried many types of

 sealant including the highly recommended Fuelube,  Finally the only

 thing that seemed to work was a product called Blue-Block which is much

 more viscous than other sealants I've used and rated for gasoline.  It

 worked from 1999 till our conditional inspection in Nov of 2006.   I

 found that these fitting were still weeping fuel.   I removed the

 fittings and changed them over to the new modular 90 degree cast AN-6

 series fittings that Andair now makes, thus completely eliminating the

 tapered pipe thread connections from the system. (now flared AN

 connections bolt right up to the Andair Valve heading in the right

 direction).   

 

 The engineer in me though says,  what caused these pipe threads to not

 seal?   Upon inspection of the old andair female pipe thread modular

 adapters I noticed that the threads did not seem to be cut deep enough

 into the part with respect to engaging the tapered thread.   I believe

 that this was causing the male pipe thread part (elbow) to bottom out

 within the Andair part instead of allowing the joint to get suitably

 tight by the tapered geometry.  

 

 So the lesson in my book is to check your fittings before assembly and

 ensure they can fully engage.   

 

 On my RV-10 fuel valve I am using the one with the straight extension

 and the cast 90 degree modular elbows.

 

 Bob Newman

LloydDR(at)wernerco.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 7:02 pm Post subject: Andair Fuel Valve

You are right Tim, I had the same issue, if a builder were to use the

female NPT fittings, and try to fit in 90degree elbows on both sides the

valve assembly would be too wide to fit in the tunnel, this was the

issue I ran into and is why I then had to order the fittings Andair had

with the 90 degree already in it, you could also use the banjo fittings,

that way you would get a full 180 degrees of movement for placing the

lines exactly where you wanted them.

Dan



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