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Lightning fiberglass factory visit

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N1BZRich(at)aol.com
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Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 6:07 pm Post subject: Lightning fiberglass factory visit

In a message dated 8/9/2007 6:53:31 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  wb2ssj(at)earthlink.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Do you    have any pictures or comments from your trip through the fiberglass works? I    had to leave friday and missed it.  Tex 	


 

 Hi Tex,

     I guess I could spread a few words about my visit  to Lightning's fiberglass factory.  To start, I feel very fortunate to have  been invited to join the group of "company owners/investors"  to visit Rick  Disher's place of business in Wisconsin.  It was truly a fantastic  opportunity.  Rick has been in the fiberglass business all his life and he  has built a company that can turn out any type of fiberglass part or assembly  using the latest techniques - vacuum bagging and oven cured resins.  None  of the "chopper gun" process that some use.  His work is truly impressive  when you look at the size of some of the boat parts and other huge parts he  fabricates.  In the aviation world, in addition to the aircraft snow skies  of his own design,  he turns out parts for several "major name" sport  aircraft companies other than Arion Lightning.  That fact should tell you  something about Rick's company's reputation in the aviation world.

     As to the Lightning, he had every part of  the kit on display and in the process of being built so  we could see inside all the parts and assemblies and how they went  together.  He even showed us all the lay ups and the various glass cloth  types they use and how the carbon fiber goes in.  I can tell you I am more  than impressed.  The Lightning fiberglass major  assemblies appear to be "hell bent" strong.  And by that I  don't mean overbuilt or overweight strong, but certainly designed and built  to do the job and then some.  Just looking inside elevators, rudders,  stabilizers and, of course, wings, really gives you a good feeling  that this airplane is really well designed and constructed.  And  speaking of seeing inside the wing, by now everyone has heard about the  new option for larger 15 gal tanks - they will fit with no problem.   Well, this next part is "TOP SECTET" from the Lightning "Skunk works":  -  there is even more room for even more fuel for when Nick gets  the time to complete the design of the ULS model.  No that is not an  ultralight lightning sport, it is the "Ultimate Lightning Storm" model that will  be turbo prop powered, with clipped wings and in the tail dragger  configuration.  You can bet that thing will climb like the proverbial home  sick angle, roll like an F-16, and go well past the "speed of stick".  Oh  yea, throw me in that briar patch, but I digress.....

     One more thing I would like to add about the visit  - Rick is a long time pilot who flys a Maul tail-dragger.  Since he is  making parts for several other major sport aircraft companies he could built any  airplane that appealed to him.  Well, it should make everyone "feel good"  that Rich has chosen to build a Lightning. How is that for an  endorsement?  We saw his project and it is going to be an "award  winner".  Look for some possible innovative changes to the interior and  instrument panel on his Lightning that could find their way into future  kits.  

 Are we having fun yet?

 Blue Skies,

 Buz

  



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Kayberg(at)AOL.COM
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 4:34 am Post subject: Lightning fiberglass factory visit

In a message dated 8/9/2007 10:08:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time,  N1BZRich(at)aol.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Well,    this next part is "TOP SECTET" from the Lightning "Skunk works":    -  there is even more room for even more fuel for when Nick    gets the time to complete the design of the ULS model.  No that is not an    ultralight lightning sport, it is the "Ultimate Lightning Storm" model that    will be turbo prop powered, with clipped wings and in the tail dragger    configuration. 	


 

 I was looking at Jim's Lightning build yesterday.  It is sitting on  the main gear without the engine, tail on the ground.

  

 It would appear that the forward visibility is near zero!    Because of the long nose of a Lightning,  when the tail is lowered it  blocks the forward view considerably.    If you flare a tri-gear  hard now, you cant see for a second or so and the tail is not that close to the  ground.

  

 Perhaps the insurance company would require a checkout in the Nemesis or  Pitts before insuring a turbine taildragger.

  

 doug

  



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vettin74(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 5:50 am Post subject: Lightning fiberglass factory visit

we will be installing a pen cam in the chin of the cowl and adapt it to the EFIS screen to have a video referance during landing...

   

  nick



Kayberg(at)aol.com wrote:

  [quote]      In a message dated 8/9/2007 10:08:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time, N1BZRich(at)aol.com writes:

  [quote]Well, this next part is "TOP SECTET" from the Lightning "Skunk works": -  there is even more room for even more fuel for when Nick gets the time to complete the design of the ULS model.  No that is not an ultralight lightning sport, it is the "Ultimate Lightning   [quote][b]

N1BZRich(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 7:01 am Post subject: Lightning fiberglass factory visit

In a message dated 8/10/2007 8:35:36 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  Kayberg(at)AOL.COM writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Because    of the long nose of a Lightning,  when the tail is lowered it blocks the    forward view considerably.    If you flare a tri-gear hard now,    you cant see for a second or so and the tail is not that close to the    ground. 	


 

 Doug,

     You mentioned landing a Pitts, and yes on final,  unless you throw in a slip, not only does the runway disappear, but the entire  airport disappears.  ( I sure do miss my Pitts and all the exciting  landings I had for over 29 years).  But, with Nick's solution of mounting a  camera in the Turbo Lightning's nose and the EFIS display, it will be just  another video game landing.  Piece of cake.  However another positive  for the camera mod is that in the telephoto mode, it will be like the F-4  with the TISEO mod.  Except instead of using it for target  acquisition, it can be used to made long distance photos of the nearest  nudist colony without ever over flying the actual real estate.  I am  sure you can come up with other uses as well.  Want to read someone's  N number from miles away?  Yep, can do.  Want to read the name of a  town on a water tower that is still some miles away?  Yep, can do  too.  You see the advantage I am sure.  However, just to make sure you  understand about the turbo prop Ultimate Lightning Storm - "pull my finger while  I am pulling your leg".

 Blue Skies,

 Buz



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dashvii(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 7:31 am Post subject: Lightning fiberglass factory visit

The NXT (only the first was called NEMISIS after the designers IF1 racer) 

kitplane uses a lipstick cam to see forward while taxiing, but I think it's 

on one of the gear.  The Lightning does have a long nose anyhow, and 

although you can see over it in landing, using flaps helps to get a better 

view.  Brian W.



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Kayberg(at)AOL.COM
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 2:52 pm Post subject: Lightning fiberglass factory visit

In a message dated 8/10/2007 9:51:16 AM Eastern Daylight Time,  vettin74(at)yahoo.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		     we will be installing a pen cam in the chin of the cowl and adapt it to    the EFIS screen to have a video referance during landing...

    

   nick



	


 

  

 Arn't you just a slick beotch.

  

 doug



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Kayberg(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 2:59 pm Post subject: Lightning fiberglass factory visit

In a message dated 8/10/2007 11:03:25 AM Eastern Daylight Time,  N1BZRich(at)aol.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		     Doug,

       You mentioned landing a Pitts, and yes on final,    unless you throw in a slip, not only does the runway disappear, but the entire    airport disappears.  ( I sure do miss my Pitts and all the exciting    landings I had for over 29 years).  But, with Nick's solution of mounting    a camera in the Turbo Lightning's nose and the EFIS display, it will be    just another video game landing.  Piece of cake.  However another    positive for the camera mod is that in the telephoto mode, it will be like    the F-4 with the TISEO mod.  Except instead of using it for    target acquisition, it can be used to made long distance photos of the    nearest nudist colony without ever over flying the actual real estate.  I    am sure you can come up with other uses as well.  Want to read    someone's N number from miles away?  Yep, can do.  Want to read the    name of a town on a water tower that is still some miles away?  Yep, can    do too.  You see the advantage I am sure.  However, just to make    sure you understand about the turbo prop Ultimate Lightning Storm - "pull my    finger while I am pulling your leg".

   Blue Skies,

   Buz

	


 

  

 Of course,

  

 but I did happen to think about the high nose angle if the Lightning was a  tail dragger.   That thought has been kicked around before and it  occured to me that it just might be a handful to land. Not that that will stop  the diehard taildragger fans.

  

 doug



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Kayberg(at)AOL.COM
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 3:07 pm Post subject: Lightning fiberglass factory visit

In a message dated 8/10/2007 11:32:22 AM Eastern Daylight Time,  dashvii(at)hotmail.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  

The    NXT (only the first was called NEMISIS after the designers IF1 racer)    

kitplane uses a lipstick cam to see forward while taxiing, but I think    it's 

on one of the gear.  The Lightning does have a long nose anyhow,    and 

although you can see over it in landing, using flaps helps to get a    better 

view.  Brian W.



	


 

  

 I just remember one early landing in our Lightning where I flaired with  full flaps and got goosed by a crosswind gust landing downhill on our grass  strip as I ran out of elevator and ideas all at the same time.  With the  nose pointed to the moon, the runway disappeared and I braced for a  crash.   I remember thinking , " this could be interesting!"

  

 But it touched down gently and the nose came down slowly...no problem at  all.

  

 However, that moment of discomfort is etched in my mind.  A  taildragger Lightning would be a hard sell to me.

  

 doug



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Rick

Joined: 24 Jul 2006
Posts: 113
Location: Colonial Beach, Virginia

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 3:28 pm Post subject: Lightning fiberglass factory visit

 	  Quote: 	
		    That thought has been kicked around before and it  occured to

me that it just might be a handful to land. Not that that will stop  the

diehard taildragger fans.



doug




	




Darn Right!       



Rick

N727RB



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lozhoffman(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 5:34 pm Post subject: Lightning fiberglass factory visit

And what's wrong with being a die hard taildragger

fan???? I sense another real aeroplane vs tricycle

undercarriage airplane discussion coming!

Laurie

Sydney



--- Rick Bowen <rollnloop(at)hotmail.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <rollnloop(at)hotmail.com>

 

 

 

 >  That thought has been kicked around before and it

  occured to

 >me that it just might be a handful to land. Not

 that that will stop  the

 >diehard taildragger fans.

 >

 >doug

 >

 

 

 Darn Right!       

 

 Rick

 N727RB

 



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 with Windows Live Hotmail. 

 

 



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Kayberg(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 3:28 am Post subject: Lightning fiberglass factory visit

In a message dated 8/10/2007 9:35:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time,  lozhoffman(at)yahoo.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  And    what's wrong with being a die hard taildragger

fan???? I sense another real    aeroplane vs tricycle

undercarriage airplane discussion    coming!

Laurie

Sydney

	


 

  

 I plead guilty to a charge of emotional bias.

  

 At Oshkosh this year I saw a Luscomb nose over on its back; and a  P-51 Mustang driver crash and die on landing their taildraggers in two seperate  incidents right in front of me.  Had they been trigear,  it is  quite likely no crash would have occured.

  

 As I age,  it seems senseless to make an airplane MORE LIKELY to crash  when landing!

  

 Since no tri-gear Pitts exists (to my knowledge) I have no problems with  it.   Or with specialty airplanes that would seem to require  tailwheels.   But for casual flyers, to retrofit to a tailwheel would  seem not to make sense for the wise.

  

 doug koenigsberg



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  [quote][b]

georgiemun

Joined: 02 Feb 2007
Posts: 10
Location: New Hope, PA

Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 3:53 am Post subject: Re: Lightning fiberglass factory visit

[/quote]

 

  

 I plead guilty to a charge of emotional bias.

  

 At Oshkosh this year I saw a Luscomb nose over on its back; and a  P-51 Mustang driver crash and die on landing their taildraggers in two seperate  incidents right in front of me.  Had they been trigear,  it is  quite likely no crash would have occured.

  

[/quote]



I think you are a little off base here.  The Mustang crash had nothing to do with the fact that the aircraft is a tail dragger since he was still in the air when he ran up into the tail of the guy in front of him.



Flying that close, he would have done the same thing in a tri-gear.

dashvii(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 4:09 am Post subject: Lightning fiberglass factory visit

"a P-51 Mustang driver crash and die on landing their taildraggers"



To be fair that was caused by more than just being a taildragger.  The FAA 

said that they were not flying in for a formation landing, but trying to 

land at the same time, thus lack of communication played a major part.  You 

could almost make the same argument here about low wing and high wing 

airplanes and their blind spots when descending or climbing.



One thing that we did discuss in an air race forum (P-51's at Oskosh were 

finishing a mock air race) was the need for a rollover structure.  In this 

case it likely wouldn't have mattered, but at Sun N Fun a few years back a 

T-6 rolled onto its back, the rollover structure had been removed, and the 

person suffocated b/c his neck was pinched backwards.  After that they 

required at least 2 different race classes have rollover structures.  Some 

said that the plane went into the grass and it wouldn't have mattered and it 

would've dug in.  The fact is that you just don't know since it didn't have 

one.



Kind of back to the orgianlly intended topic, the Lightning has an area 

behind the canopy that is supposed to be designed as a roll over structure 

from what I was told.  Brian W.

From: Kayberg(at)aol.com

Reply-To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com

To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Lightning fiberglass factory visit

Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 07:27:11 EDT

In a message dated 8/10/2007 9:35:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

lozhoffman(at)yahoo.com writes:



And  what's wrong with being a die hard taildragger

fan???? I sense another real  aeroplane vs tricycle

undercarriage airplane discussion  coming!

Laurie

Sydney





I plead guilty to a charge of emotional bias.



At Oshkosh this year I saw a Luscomb nose over on its back; and a  P-51

Mustang driver crash and die on landing their taildraggers in two seperate

incidents right in front of me.  Had they been trigear,  it is  quite likely 

no crash

would have occured.



As I age,  it seems senseless to make an airplane MORE LIKELY to crash  when

landing!



Since no tri-gear Pitts exists (to my knowledge) I have no problems with  

it.

   Or with specialty airplanes that would seem to require  tailwheels.   But

for casual flyers, to retrofit to a tailwheel would  seem not to make sense 

for

the wise.



doug koenigsberg



http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour



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dashvii(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 4:20 am Post subject: Lightning fiberglass factory visit

Also,  The crash at Oskosh was actually NOT a mustang.  This was a 100% 

scale replica of an A model mustang built from the orignal plans.  It and 

the other aircraft involved were featured in a new movie called "Thunder 

Over Reno", which is about air racing.  Movie Trailer can be found here:  

http://www.thunderoverreno.com/news/  Also, the two families involved were 

good friends and the plane that survived was actually the owners son.  (not 

a really young guy, just mean that had to be scary for the owner to see all 

of this).  Brian W.

From: "georgiemun" <georgiemun(at)yahoo.com>

Reply-To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com

To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Lightning fiberglass factory visit

Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 04:53:27 -0700






[/quote]

  I plead guilty to a charge of emotional bias.



  At Oshkosh this year I saw a Luscomb nose over on its back; and a  P-51 

Mustang driver crash and die on landing their taildraggers in two seperate  

incidents right in front of me.  Had they been trigear,  it is  quite likely 

no crash would have occured.



[/quote]



I think you are a little off base here.  The Mustang crash had nothing to do 

with the fact that the aircraft is a tail dragger since he was still in the 

air when he ran up into the tail of the guy in front of him.



Flying that close, he would have done the same thing in a tri-gear.





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=128603#128603

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Kayberg(at)AOL.COM
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 5:03 am Post subject: Lightning fiberglass factory visit

In a message dated 8/11/2007 7:54:55 AM Eastern Daylight Time,  georgiemun(at)yahoo.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  

I    think you are a little off base here.  The Mustang crash had nothing to    do with the fact that the aircraft is a tail dragger since he was still in the    air when he ran up into the tail of the guy in front of him.



Flying    that close, he would have done the same thing in a  tri-gear.

	


 

  

  

 You may be right.......but with a nosewheel he would have had the option to  just bang it down and slam on the brakes.

  

 It would seem to me that with a tailwheel you have fewer options at  touchdown.

  

 doug



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