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Anyone Register as E-LSA?

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s_thatcher(at)bellsouth.n
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 3:50 am Post subject: Anyone Register as E-LSA?

Has anyone tried to register the 601XL as an E-LSA?  I've started the

process and wondering if I'm going down this path alone or are there others

working to meet the deadline of 1/31/2008?



The reason I'm trying to go this route is to allow the buyer of my airplane

(in 10-15 years), the chance to do his (her) own work on it should they take

the 16 hour maintenance program.  I will also need to take the 16 hour

training even though I built the plane because of the E-LSA registration.

But I don't consider that wasted energy since I really need to know more

about inspections anyway (I've not done very well at the Sun 'n Fun J3 Cub

inspection booth in the past!)



So, if someone has gone this route, let me know.



Scott Thatcher

601XL with Corvair Power

92% complete

passpat(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 4:29 am Post subject: Anyone Register as E-LSA?

you the builder can get your repairmans cert in the normal events after your airworthyness cert is finished for this aircraft only. your buyer should still have any opps available

 

 Pat

 

 

 --

dredmoody(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 5:28 am Post subject: Anyone Register as E-LSA?

I'mm wondering if you registered the plane EAB and skipped the 16 hour course, could a future owner re-register the plane E-LSA by having it go through another airworthiness inspection? Just a thought.



Dred



---- Scott Thatcher <s_thatcher(at)bellsouth.net> wrote: 

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Has anyone tried to register the 601XL as an E-LSA?  I've started the

 process and wondering if I'm going down this path alone or are there others

 working to meet the deadline of 1/31/2008?

 

 The reason I'm trying to go this route is to allow the buyer of my airplane

 (in 10-15 years), the chance to do his (her) own work on it should they take

 the 16 hour maintenance program.  I will also need to take the 16 hour

 training even though I built the plane because of the E-LSA registration.

 But I don't consider that wasted energy since I really need to know more

 about inspections anyway (I've not done very well at the Sun 'n Fun J3 Cub

 inspection booth in the past!)

 

 So, if someone has gone this route, let me know.

 

 Scott Thatcher

 601XL with Corvair Power

 92% complete

Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 5:32 am Post subject: Re: Anyone Register as E-LSA?

Scott,



As a E-AB any future owner would still be able to do any maintenance. They wouldn't be able to do the condition inspection. So all you gain with the E-LSA is the ability to pass on the ability to do the condition inspections.



I really don't know how much of a plus that is and as far as what it will be in 10-15 years is a complete unknown.

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

psm(at)ATT.NET
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 5:46 am Post subject: Anyone Register as E-LSA?

I think there is a little confusion over the difference between 

registering your plane and airworthiness certificates.  (Of course, 

it might be me who is confused.)



A registration is a temporary thing that attaches a tail number to a 

plane.  It seems important in the regulation system because we 

builders tend to register our planes before getting airworthiness 

certificates, but for most planes the airworthiness certificate comes first.



The airworthiness certificate determines what kind of plane you 

have.  It might be registered or unregistered many times with 

different tail numbers over the life of the plane, but the original 

airworthiness certificate still determines what kind of plane it is.



In this funny case (E-LSA vs. E-AB) there are some gains and losses 

depending on which path you choose.  This will all come to an end 

next year when the fat ultralight rule expires.  Then the 

determination of E-LSA vs E-AB will be made by the original purchase 

rather than the builder's choice.  You won't be able to register a 

E-LSA "kit" as E-AB or vice versa.



If I got all this wrong, then let me apologize to everyone now . . .



Paul

XL fuselage

do not archive

At 06:27 AM 8/16/2007, you wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  I'mm wondering if you registered the plane EAB and skipped the 16 

hour course, could a future owner re-register the plane E-LSA by 

having it go through another airworthiness inspection? Just a thought.



Dred

FlyDad57(at)neo.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 5:49 am Post subject: Anyone Register as E-LSA?

Nope.  Can't do that.



---

Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 8:56 am Post subject: Re: Anyone Register as E-LSA?

I think you've got that 50% right. An E-LSA kit that is NOT built to the manufacturer's specs should still be able to be registered as a E-AB. That is assuming the manufacturer allows you to do that.



 	  psm(at)ATT.NET wrote: 	
		   You won't be able to register a 

E-LSA "kit" as E-AB or vice versa.



If I got all this wrong, then let me apologize to everyone now . . .



Paul

XL fuselage

do not archive

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

bryanmmartin

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1018

Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 11:46 am Post subject: Anyone Register as E-LSA?

No, that can't be done.

The only way to certificate a 601XL as an E-LSA is under the "Fat 

ultralight" exception to the rules and then only if it has never had an 

airworthiness certificate before. After the "fat ultralight" clause 

expires on January 31st next year, the only ways to certificate an 

airplane as an E-LSA is if was specifically produced by the manufacturer 

as an E-LSA kit or to convert an S-LSA to E-LSA status. The 601XL is not 

available as an approved E-LSA kit and as far as I know, neither AMD nor 

Zenith plan take that step.

In any case, the only difference between E-AB and E-LSA is who is 

allowed to sign off the annual inspections. The owner of either type is 

allowed to perform any and all maintenance on his plane.

dredmoody(at)cox.net wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 I'mm wondering if you registered the plane EAB and skipped the 16 hour course, could a future owner re-register the plane E-LSA by having it go through another airworthiness inspection? Just a thought.

 Dred

 ---- Scott Thatcher <s_thatcher(at)bellsouth.net> wrote: 

> 

>

> Has anyone tried to register the 601XL as an E-LSA?  I've started the

> process and wondering if I'm going down this path alone or are there others

> working to meet the deadline of 1/31/2008?

>

>> Scott Thatcher

> 601XL with Corvair Power

> 92% complete

>

-- 

Bryan Martin

Zenith 601XL N61BM

Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive

_________________
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.

bryanmmartin

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1018

Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 11:47 am Post subject: Anyone Register as E-LSA?

The only difference between E-AB and E-LSA is who is allowed to sign off 

the annual inspections. The owner of either type is allowed to perform 

any and all maintenance on his plane.



Scott Thatcher wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Has anyone tried to register the 601XL as an E-LSA?  I've started the

 process and wondering if I'm going down this path alone or are there others

 working to meet the deadline of 1/31/2008?

 

 The reason I'm trying to go this route is to allow the buyer of my airplane

 (in 10-15 years), the chance to do his (her) own work on it should they take

 the 16 hour maintenance program.  I will also need to take the 16 hour

 training even though I built the plane because of the E-LSA registration.

 But I don't consider that wasted energy since I really need to know more

 about inspections anyway (I've not done very well at the Sun 'n Fun J3 Cub

 inspection booth in the past!)

 


	


-- 

Bryan Martin

Zenith 601XL N61BM

Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive

Do Not Archive

_________________
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.

bryanmmartin

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1018

Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 11:54 am Post subject: Anyone Register as E-LSA?

You might be able to certificate an E-LSA kit as an E-AB if it also 

meets the 51% rule. You will not be able to certificate an E-AB kit as 

an E-LSA. There is also a provision in the rules to convert an S-LSA to 

E-LSA status.



Paul Mulwitz wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 

 In this funny case (E-LSA vs. E-AB) there are some gains and losses 

 depending on which path you choose.  This will all come to an end next 

 year when the fat ultralight rule expires.  Then the determination of 

 E-LSA vs E-AB will be made by the original purchase rather than the 

 builder's choice.  You won't be able to register a E-LSA "kit" as E-AB 

 or vice versa.

 

 


	


-- 

Bryan Martin

Zenith 601XL N61BM

Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive

Do Not Archive

_________________
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.

brothapig(at)HOTMAIL.COM
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 12:28 pm Post subject: Anyone Register as E-LSA?

Does it make a difference if one wants to rent their plane out to others?

[quote] 

 In any case, the only difference between E-AB and E-LSA is who is 

 allowed to sign off the annual inspections. The owner of either type is 

 allowed to perform any and all maintenance on his plane.

 

   	  Quote: 	
		  [b]

barcusc(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 12:31 pm Post subject: Anyone Register as E-LSA?

Bryan,



I called EAA and they told me exactly the same thing as your post with one 

exception: I was told that any future deviations made to an S-LSA is a lot 

more difficult than changes to an E-LSA.



Clyde Barcus

601 XL, Nashville, TN



---

bryanmmartin

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1018

Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 4:38 pm Post subject: Anyone Register as E-LSA?

An E-LSA can be used for flight training and can be rented for the 

purposes of flight training until Jan 31, 2010. After that, it will no 

longer be allowed. An exemption can be obtained allowing an E-AB to be 

rented for transition training for someone with the same type airplane.

Ryan Vechinski wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Does it make a difference if one wants to rent their plane out to others?

  >

  > In any case, the only difference between E-AB and E-LSA is who is

  > allowed to sign off the annual inspections. The owner of either type is

  > allowed to perform any and all maintenance on his plane.

  >

-- 

Bryan Martin

Zenith 601XL N61BM

Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive

Do Not Archive

_________________
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.

mosquito-56(at)HOTMAIL.CO
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 12:28 pm Post subject: Anyone Register as E-LSA?

I read,  "the 601XL is not       available as an approved E-LSA kit and as far as I know, neither AMD nor 

      Zenith plan take that step." This was from a statement by a Brian. If this is true, why do all the websites insist that this is an lsa compatible plane? I just want to make sure since I am building a 601xl with jab or Rotax.

       I am guessing that the paperwork for the two types, e-lsa and e-ab are different. A little clarification please?

  

 Don

 N601NV- Reserved

 601xl- First wing complete

 Laredo, Tx

 

 

Discover the new Windows Vista Learn more!  [quote][b]

Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 1:04 pm Post subject: Re: Anyone Register as E-LSA?

He was right and the ads were also right. A plane does not need to be certified as a E-LSA or S-LSA to be legal for someone to fly under the rules for LSA. In fact there are a lot more aircraft that can be legally flown by an LSA pilot than there are E-LSA and S-LSA aircraft.



There are two very seperate parts of the rules that make up what we all call the LSA rules. The first is about pilots, the second about aircraft. 



If you during the registration process screw up and say your 601XL has a max gross weight of 1400 lbs. or cruises faster than 120 knots it will NEVER be legal to be flown by someone operating under the LSA rules.

 	  mosquito-56(at)HOTMAIL.CO wrote: 	
		  I read,  "the 601XL is not       available as an approved E-LSA kit and as far as I know, neither AMD nor 

  ï¿½   Zenith plan take that step." This was from a statement by a Brian. If this is true, why do all the websites insist that this is an lsa compatible plane? I just want to make sure since I am building a 601xl with jab or Rotax.

       I am guessing that the paperwork for the two types, e-lsa and e-ab are different. A little clarification please?

  

 Don

 N601NV- Reserved

 601xl- First wing complete

 Laredo, Tx

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

bryanmmartin

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1018

Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 4:12 pm Post subject: Anyone Register as E-LSA?

It doesn't matter what kind of certification the airplane has. As long as the airplane falls within the performance and gross weight limitations of the LSA rule and has done so since its initial certification, it can legally be flown by a sport pilot. The 601XL falls within the limitations of LSA as do many older aircraft with standard airworthiness certificates.

On Aug 17, 2007, at 4:26 PM, Don Merritt wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		        I read,  "the 601XL is not       available as an approved E-LSA kit and as far as I know, neither AMD nor       Zenith plan take that step." This was from a statement by a Brian. If this is true, why do all the websites insist that this is an lsa compatible plane? I just want to make sure since I am building a 601xl with jab or Rotax.      I am guessing that the paperwork for the two types, e-lsa and e-ab are different. A little clarification please?  	




 -- 

Bryan Martin

N61BM, CH 601 XL,

RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.

do not archive.

 



 [quote][b]

_________________
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.

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