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Fox5flyer
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 Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 11:09 am Post subject: Subaru oil loss |
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Layne, your problem of blowing oil out the breather is not an NSI problem, at least not for the normally aspirated version. Are you speaking of the turbo version? If so, I'm not familiar with that setup.
"I'd like to know what you do to fix the oil that blows out the breeather tube that comes out the top side of the oil pan"
Regarding your above statement, my oil pan has no breather tube. The only breather mine has is from the remote storage tank on the firewall. Is that what you're referring to?
Mine doesn't throw out any oil, but there is a tendency to soil the belly of the airplane with breather mist the same as any other airplane does. I go through a quart about every twenty hours.
You need to check to ensure that you aren't over filling your tank. I did that once and it really made a big mess. What happened was that I didn't realize when I filled the tank with the amount of oil specified that it already had some oil in it from the factory break in. Once I realized what happened I just keep the oil level at what is recommended and I have no problems. When mine is full the actual level is about 2/3 the way up the tank.
Another thing. In the firewall tank there is a baffle that protects the oil contents from easily blowing out the breather. Ensure that you tank has that baffle. You can tell by just shining a light down through the fill hole.
Hope this helps a little. Let me know if I can help anymore.
Deke Morisse
Mikado Michigan
S5/Subaru/CAP 355+ TT
"If you don't read the newspaper you are
uninformed, if you do read
the newspaper you are misinformed."
Mark Twain
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avtar412
Joined: 15 Nov 2006
Posts: 22
Location: New Zealand
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debrun26(at)juno.com
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| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 8:09 am Post subject: Subaru oil loss |
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Thanks Deke for the reply... My Sooby is the regular 100 hp NSI that has the oil tank on the fire wall and breather comming out the top left side. Unfortunately, that breather is spitting out oil at a qt an hour or more even when warming up on the ground. It has the baffles which were actually redone in 2001 acording to logbook entries. From what I've learned from the kind KF group is that the oil which is being pumped back into the firewall tank is splashing on the back of the tank and creating a foam, which blows out the breather vent. It isn't over filled and holds 2 3/4 qts of oil. I'm wondering if my oil has detergent in it that yours doesn't have which would give me more foam creation than you. What kind of oil are you using? I've tried putting a bent tube in the inlet of the oil tank to keep it from hitting the back of the wall, but it made it worse. Please give more suggestions on how to fix the problem. Thanks, layne
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Fox5flyer
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| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 11:37 am Post subject: Subaru oil loss |
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Sorry to hear of your plight Layne. Yours appears to be the same as mine.
"breather is spitting out oil at a qt an hour or more even when warming up on the ground"
That's a lot of oil to be shooting out of there, especially when at idle power. At any power setting there should be zero oil coming from the breather so you definitely have something wrong in there. The fact that there was a log book entry about the baffle indicates there is a history, but unless it says why and what, it isn't a lot of help. It just tells you that somebody has been in there for some reason.
These engines are pretty simple the way they work and not unique. Simply, crankcase pressure pulses push the oil from the pan through a check valve then up to the oil tank where gravity provides it to the oil pump to pressurize the engine. It's a typical remote sump system and works very well. The oil returning to the tank should not be able to get into the vent line unless there's too much oil in the tank or the baffle is either missing or modified in some way that it isn't doing it's job. Does it appear to have been changed?
The first thing I would do is to drain all of the oil and replace it with the recommended oil for the engine. I think it was Castrol GTX. Also, while you're at it, remove the Oil tank and have a real good look at the inside of it to see if you can find a clue to why this is happening. Other than that, I don't know what to tell you right now.
Let us know how it goes.
Deke Morisse
Mikado Michigan
S5/Subaru/CAP 365+ TT
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rjdaugh
Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Posts: 195
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| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 12:25 pm Post subject: Subaru oil loss |
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I may be coming in late and may be all wet here, but,,,
What is the compression of each cylinder? If one or more (all?) is low, it may indicate a lot of blow-by which pressures the crankcase to push the oil out to the tank on the firewall. If there is too much blow-by, the loss may simply be due to the high volume of gas passing through the oil tank.
This may not be a nice thought, but I feel it should be ruled out.
Randy Daughenbaugh, N10NH
Black Hills of South Dakota, - Near Mount Rushmore
Home Strip, Grass Room in Hangar for visitors
Series 5/7 (7 Firewall Forward) 912S (also a dry sump engine),
Warp Drive Taper Tip
Gross Weight 1320 lbs, Flying since November 2004
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of fox5flyer
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2007 2:35 PM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Subaru oil loss
Sorry to hear of your plight Layne. Yours appears to be the same as mine.
[i]"breather is spitting out oil at a qt an hour or more even when warming up on the ground"[/i]
That's a lot of oil to be shooting out of there, especially when at idle power. At [i]any [/i]power setting there should be zero oil coming from the breather so you definitely have something wrong in there. The fact that there was a log book entry about the baffle indicates there is a history, but unless it says why and what, it isn't a lot of help. It just tells you that somebody has been in there for some reason.
These engines are pretty simple the way they work and not unique. Simply, crankcase pressure pulses push the oil from the pan through a check valve then up to the oil tank where gravity provides it to the oil pump to pressurize the engine. It's a typical remote sump system and works very well. The oil returning to the tank should not be able to get into the vent line unless there's too much oil in the tank or the baffle is either missing or modified in some way that it isn't doing it's job. Does it appear to have been changed?
The first thing I would do is to drain all of the oil and replace it with the recommended oil for the engine. I think it was Castrol GTX. Also, while you're at it, remove the Oil tank and have a real good look at the inside of it to see if you can find a clue to why this is happening. Other than that, I don't know what to tell you right now.
Let us know how it goes.
Deke Morisse
Mikado Michigan
S5/Subaru/CAP 365+ TT
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Randy
Kitfox 5/7 912S
Black Hills, South Dakota |
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debrun26(at)juno.com
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| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 5:03 pm Post subject: Subaru oil loss |
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Thanks Deke~ I'll give it a try... Replace oil, remove tank and insect, etc.... I'm going right now to make a seperator to take care of the messy problem under the plane. I'm thinking of removing the remote tank and mounting it lower so I can then put a verticle extention on the breather. what do you think? Layne
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[quote][b]
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Fox5flyer
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 5:12 am Post subject: Subaru oil loss |
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There's another thing I thought of. Since everyone builds their KF differently, it occurred to me that perhaps your vent hose is terminating in a low pressure area and the oil is being "sucked" out? Something to look at.
As for lowering the tank, I'd give that considerable thought because during the development process the position of the tank was thought out and placed in the optimum position through trial and error. Lowering it may possibly cause other problems. Have a real good look inside that tank to see if anything has bee modified from original. If it has, you should be able to see it.
Deke Morisse
Mikado Michigan
S5/Subaru/CAP 355+ TT
"If you don't read the newspaper you are
uninformed, if you do read
the newspaper you are misinformed."
Mark Twain
[quote] From: debrun26(at)juno.com (debrun26(at)juno.com)
Subject: Re: Subaru oil loss
Thanks Deke~ I'll give it a try... Replace oil, remove tank and insect, etc.... I'm going right now to make a seperator to take care of the messy problem under the plane. I'm thinking of removing the remote tank and mounting it lower so I can then put a verticle extention on the breather. what do you think? Layne
[b]
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debrun26(at)juno.com
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 9:39 pm Post subject: Subaru oil loss |
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Thanks again Deke~ I went to the plane last night to try to start working on lowering the tank, making a seperator, and changing out the pvc valve. Found the tank couldn't be lowered w/o welding new connect points on it... so I don't need to worry about residual ramifications. Still trying to figure out the seperator proect. I hand cranked the prop to see if the cilinders stoll had close to the same pressure and found that 2 of them were significantly weaker than the others. This is a new developement and may explain the recent dramatic increase in oil loss through the breather. Now i need to figure out if it's due to cillinders or valves. That's a lot for a black thumb non-mechanic. I've found an auto sooby mechanic that will work on it just in case. I hope it will be OK for him to do the work instead of an A/P mechanic. Haven't found one of them that know a thing about Subaru engines. My breather line extends below the fusalage a good 10 inches, so I wouldn't think that would be a low pressure area. Layne
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Fox5flyer
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 3:29 am Post subject: Subaru oil loss |
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First, you can not use an aircraft differential compression tester on the NSI engine because of the freewheeling clutch. So, at any auto parts store you can buy an inexpensive compression tester that screws into a spark plug hole. About $30 will get a decent one. Just remove all of your spark plugs and screw the tester into a spark plug hole. Make a drawing of the layout so you can keep track of the readings of each cylinder. With the ignition "off" and throttle all the way to the firewall, to get the highest reading crank the engine over for about 20 seconds while watching the gauge then write it down on your diagram. Continue this for the other three then get back to us with your readings. There is a way you can differentiate between the valves and rings, but I don't have time to go into that yet. This is all pretty basic stuff so any of your friends who have mechanical knowledge should be able to help you with the check. WATCH OUT FOR THAT PROP.
Also, if you find that pcv valve you spoke of, let me know where it is so I can take a look at mine.  Just kidding. There is no pcv valve on your engine, or shouldn't be anyway.
Also, that breather line extending below the fuselage may be putting it in a low pressure area. I would cut it off so that it is up inside the cowling, but below the engine line.
I assume you bought this engine "used"?
Others who can add insight to this, feel free to jump in.
Deke Morisse
Mikado Michigan
S5/Subaru/CAP 355+ TT
"If you don't read the newspaper you are
uninformed, if you do read
the newspaper you are misinformed."
Mark Twain
[quote] ---
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