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S5 Sticky fuel valve
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Fox5flyer
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 3:54 am Post subject: S5 Sticky fuel valve

My S5 has the factory stock on-off console fuel  valve by Imperial.  It seems to be a good valve, but one of the  problems I have with it is that after a couple months of use, it begins to get  sticky and difficult to turn.  Removal and dismantling finds it dry and a  taper fit metal-to-metal brass.  What I've always done to make it like new  again is to use a little polishing compound on it, working the valve back and  forth until it is smooth again, cleaning it all up, then applying Fuelube to  it.  After reinstall, it works perfectly--for awhile.  Then it begins  to tighten up again and get difficult to turn.  

  

 As the maintenance of this unit is a pain in the  butt, I'm tired of it and I want to change to something that doesn't require so  much maintenance.  I talked to the Andair people at Oshkosh, but they don't  make a straight through unit that is suitable.  I'd rather not go into any  major replumbing for this fix, but I will if necessary.

  

 What have some of you folks out there done to  resolve this problem?  I'd really like to see what my various options are  and I'd appreciate any input.

  

 Deke Morisse

Mikado Michigan

S5/Subaru/CAP  365+ TT



  

  

  

   [quote][b]

pwmac(at)sisna.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 9:27 am Post subject: S5 Sticky fuel valve

A hardware store ball valve labeled WOG will have nice teflon or nylon seals and will always work just fine. They have internal pipe threads and come in 1/4 and 3/8" to choose from.

 Paul

 ============

 At 06:52 AM 8/18/2007, you wrote:

 [quote]My S5 has the factory stock on-off console fuel valve by Imperial.  It seems to be a good valve, but one of the problems I have with it is that after a couple months of use, it begins to get sticky and difficult to turn.  Removal and dismantling finds it dry and a taper fit metal-to-metal brass.  What I've always done to make it like new again is to use a little polishing compound on it, working the valve back and forth until it is smooth again, cleaning it all up, then applying Fuelube to it.  After reinstall, it works perfectly--for awhile.  Then it begins to tighten up again and get difficult to turn.  

  

 As the maintenance of this unit is a pain in the butt, I'm tired of it and I want to change to something that doesn't require so much maintenance.  I talked to the Andair people at Oshkosh, but they don't make a straight through unit that is suitable.  I'd rather not go into any major replumbing for this fix, but I will if necessary.

  

 What have some of you folks out there done to resolve this problem?  I'd really like to see what my various options are and I'd appreciate any input.

  

 Deke Morisse

 Mikado Michigan

 S5/Subaru/CAP 365+ TT

  

  

  



 [b]

debrun26(at)juno.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 10:09 am Post subject: S5 Sticky fuel valve

Hey Deke,   I also have an S5 with the NSI Sooby engine..  I'd like to know what you do to fix the oil that blows out the breeather tube that comes out the top side of the oil pan and dumps out all over under the plane.  mine often drains a quart in an hour and I've got to find a fix. Please give me some ideas....    Thanks,   Layne  from Alaska   



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    [quote][b]

Fox5flyer
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 11:11 am Post subject: S5 Sticky fuel valve

Thanks Paul.  What I'm actually looking for is  a direct replacement, if one isn't available.  I'd considered the ball  valve, but wasn't sure how I could mount it to the underside of the  console.  

  

 Deke Morisse

Mikado Michigan

S5/Subaru/CAP  355+ TT

"If you don't read the newspaper you are

uninformed, if you do  read 

the newspaper you are misinformed."

Mark Twain

  

  

 [quote]   ---

pwmac(at)sisna.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 11:32 am Post subject: S5 Sticky fuel valve

Boy,  you are correct re-plumbing would be needed. A lot of us started with the HW store valves from the beginning.

 Paul

 ======================

 At 02:07 PM 8/18/2007, you wrote:

 [quote]Thanks Paul.  What I'm actually looking for is a direct replacement, if one isn't available.  I'd considered the ball valve, but wasn't sure how I could mount it to the underside of the console.  

  

 Deke Morisse

 Mikado Michigan

 S5/Subaru/CAP 355+ TT

 "If you don't read the newspaper you are

 uninformed, if you do read 

 the newspaper you are misinformed."

 Mark Twain

  

  

   ---

wingsdown(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 2:07 pm Post subject: S5 Sticky fuel valve

I  replaced mine with the Adair valve. ACS carried it. Yes a little plumbing but  worth it. Not a big deal.  Should be a pic on the photo section. Since your  not running a kerosene heater you don't need the valve that goes with one  

  

 Rick 

 

  8/17/2007 5:43 PM

     [quote][b]

Michael Logan

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 82

Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 3:11 pm Post subject: S5 Sticky fuel valve

Layne,

  

 I had the same set up as you do.  What I did was to  put a 90 degree fitting inside the tank where the oil returns from the  engine to the tank.  On the fitting I put a tube running down to the lower  end of the tank with holes in it to allow the oil and mist to disburse.   The reason behind the fitting and the tube is because with the original, the oil  would shoot straight into the tank from the engine blow-by pressure and  would allow create a mist that could flow out the overflow.  I also put in  a catch bottle on the breather.  I made the catch bottle from a water  bottle used  by bicyclist.  I ran the tubing from the overflow into  the top of the bottle and down near the bottom of the bottle.  I put  another fitting in the top that ran an overflow down to the bottom of the  firewall.  Any misting oil that came through the breather would settle in  the catch bottle and only air would flow out the overflow from the catch  bottle.  I made a filter out of an aluminum kitchen scrubber and put  it in the top of the catch bottle to make sure any mist would be stopped from  going out the overflow.

  

 The NSI setup is very sensitive to over filling the oil  tank.  The level in the tank should really be checked after running the  engine for a few minutes to make sure any oil that has drained down from the  tank into the engine is pumped back into the storage tank.  There is a  check valve that is supposed to prevent this but it might not stop all of the  drainage.  The setup is also very sensitive to rings going bad or any other  kind of wear that would cause excessive blow-by.  When there is excessive  blow-by, it goes into the storage tank with enough force that there is a lot of  oil misting that goes out the breather.

  

 Mike 

 Series 5 formerly with an NSI.



   From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of  debrun26(at)juno.com

Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2007 2:06  PM

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Kitfox-List:  S5 Sticky fuel valve

 

Hey Deke,   I also have an S5 with the NSI Sooby  engine...  I'd like to know what you do to fix the oil that blows  out the breeather tube that comes out the top side of the oil pan and  dumps out all over under the plane.  mine often drains a quart in an  hour and I've got to find a fix. Please give me some ideas....     Thanks,   Layne  from Alaska   



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/2-2130421-177">Send  your friends personalized video messages!

Sign up for a FREE Juno account and  start sending Video Mail today!



[quote]



href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com



[b]

_________________
Mike Logan
Fredericksburg, VA

Fox5flyer
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 11:19 am Post subject: S5 Sticky fuel valve

Thanks Steve.  While at Oshkosh I talked to  the Andair rep and looked over their valves.  When I told him that I wanted  a straight through 0n-off valve where the "on" position of the handle was inline  with the fuel flow and the "off" position of the handle was perpendicular to the  flow.  He told me that they don't make one like that.   It seemed  pretty standard to me.  Which model was yours?  To anybody, what did  Skystar replace this "Imperial" valve with?

 Deke

  

 [quote]   ---

wingsdown(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 12:08 pm Post subject: S5 Sticky fuel valve

Look  at the photo section. You may be able to tell the model. I don't remember,  it  has been a while.  I know it was  in line no 90s to plumb ,  just some adaptors and different length tube. Not sure of the valve orientation  but it had a nice detent lock for open and closed. 

  

 Rick 

 

  8/19/2007 7:27 AM

     [quote][b]

Fox5flyer
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 2:46 pm Post subject: S5 Sticky fuel valve

Thanks Rick.  Sorry for calling you  Steve.  What photo section are you referring to?

 Deke

 do not archive

  

 [quote]   ---

wingsdown(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 4:19 pm Post subject: S5 Sticky fuel valve

It is  the one hosted by the list. Use to be sportflight not sure how to get to the new  site. Someone can help I am sure. I would like to see what's been going on  myself. Hey not to worry been called worse.

  

 Rick

 [quote]   

   --

Fox5flyer
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 5:36 am Post subject: S5 Sticky fuel valve

Found it.  http://www.sportflight.com/cgi-bin/uploader.pl?action=view&epoch=1011579067As  you look at the valve in the picture, is it in the "on" or "off" position?   Do you have any idea what the part number was?

 For all you folks who are fairly new to this list  (last couple years) there's a lot of good information in the Sportflight web  site hosted by Don Pearsall.  A good archive of photos.

 http://www.sportflight.com/cgi-bin/uploader.pl?action=main

 Deke

 ---

wingsdown(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 6:36 am Post subject: S5 Sticky fuel valve

That  is in the on position. If you look over to the right , hard to se, is the off  words and an arrow pointing to off.  Also note the aluminum fuel line  visible through the flaperon control slot. Goes straight back from the fuel  valve and the angles over to the side for clearance. So no 90s.  

  

 Rick

 [quote]   

   --

Fox5flyer
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 3:51 am Post subject: S5 Sticky fuel valve

This appears to be an older version that what  Andair illustrates on their web site, but obviously it is what I'm looking  for.  On their web site, the best I can see is that when in the on  position, the handle points perpendicular to the flow which is not what I  want.  While at Oshkosh, they said they didn't produce one where the  indicator point faced the direction of flow on the straight through model.   When I told him that I thought it was standard for the handle to follow the  direction of flow he acted like he didn't know what to say.  So, I said  "thanks" and moved on. 

 C'mon guys, what are you using out there?   What is being supplied with the kits now, or is it something that has to be  procured on your own? 

  

 Deke Morisse

Mikado Michigan

S5/Subaru/CAP  355+ TT

"If you don't read the newspaper you are

uninformed, if you do  read 

the newspaper you are misinformed."

Mark Twain

  

  

 [quote]   ---

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:08 am Post subject: S5 Sticky fuel valve

Deke-

I'm using three "Brass mini ball valves" (as described in my Grainger  

Catalog)...one for each tank, and one for the main fuel line. I first  

saw these on Bill Willyard's Rotax-powered 'fox, and "stole" the  

idea. When the handle is in line with the flow, the valve is open. I  

used the 1/4" size. The cost is less than $5 each.



Lynn Matteson

Grass Lake, Michigan

Kitfox IV Speedster  w/Jabiru 2200

flying w/369+ hrs

On Aug 22, 2007, at 8:48 AM, fox5flyer wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   This appears to be an older version that what Andair illustrates on  

 their web site, but obviously it is what I'm looking for.  On their  

 web site, the best I can see is that when in the on position, the  

 handle points perpendicular to the flow which is not what I want.   

 While at Oshkosh, they said they didn't produce one where the  

 indicator point faced the direction of flow on the straight through  

 model.  When I told him that I thought it was standard for the  

 handle to follow the direction of flow he acted like he didn't know  

 what to say.  So, I said "thanks" and moved on.

 C'mon guys, what are you using out there?  What is being supplied  

 with the kits now, or is it something that has to be procured on  

 your own?



 Deke Morisse

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:30 am Post subject: Re: S5 Sticky fuel valve

 	  Quote: 	
		  C'mon guys, what are you using out there?   What is being supplied with the kits now, or is it something that has to be  procured on your own? 	


 

Sorry Deke. I've been using the old Imperial 104-HD for the last year without problems. Don't know why. Maybe it's because I use 100LL.



Guy

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

Fox5flyer
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 12:01 pm Post subject: S5 Sticky fuel valve

Thanks for the response Guy.  Mine was OK for the first year or so also, but

it slowly began to get difficult to turn.  Removing it, cleaning and lubing

would solve the problem, but only temporary and now it only works for a few

months.  I don't think these valves were designed for gasoline.  Probably

fuel oil or something like that.

Deke



---

JJProbasco(at)cs.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 7:42 pm Post subject: S5 Sticky fuel valve

While at the big box home centers, I have often looked at the small brass ball valves that have teflon seals and are rated for air/gas/oil and thought they would be good for the KitFox fuel plumbing.  But I haven't come up with a convenient and reliable way to stabilize the valve body against the handle twisting force.  I don't think this force should be applied to the attached fuel lines.  What amounting arrangement has proven successful for others?

 

 Jeff Probasco

 Model 5     [quote][b]

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 5:03 am Post subject: S5 Sticky fuel valve

I used two appropriate-sized Adel clamps around the body of the  

valve, with the whole arrangement mounted on an aluminum plate.



Lynn Matteson

Grass Lake, Michigan

Kitfox IV Speedster  w/Jabiru 2200

flying w/369+ hrs

On Aug 22, 2007, at 11:40 PM, JJProbasco(at)cs.com wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   While at the big box home centers, I have often looked at the small  

 brass ball valves that have teflon seals and are rated for air/gas/ 

 oil and thought they would be good for the KitFox fuel plumbing.   

 But I haven't come up with a convenient and reliable way to  

 stabilize the valve body against the handle twisting force.  I  

 don't think this force should be applied to the attached fuel  

 lines.  What amounting arrangement has proven successful for others?



 Jeff Probasco

 Model 5 _- 

 www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List _- 

 ============================================================

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Tom Jones

Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 752
Location: Ellensburg, WA

Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 10:48 am Post subject: Re: S5 Sticky fuel valve

 	  Quote: 	
		  C'mon guys, what are you using out there? 	




Three pictures worth 3000 words.  The aluminum angle is 1/2 x 1/2 x 1//16 and is the same length as the hardware store ball valve.  It is attached to the original skystar valve angle mount with two #4 screws and lock nuts.  The selector handle is shortened to fit in the protector bracket.

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_________________
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA

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